Nick Jones Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 There are various companies that sell wheelnuts in bewildering variety and even machine to order so it ought to be possible to get something to fit. If the studs are long enough to protrude right through the wheel then thin wall thickness is not an issue as the sleeve is only serving to locate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 Ah you have given me an idea! with long studs and external nuts all I need is some sleeving to slip between the stud and the holes in the wheel, I could then have some to the right length for the thickness of each wheel! Google where are you Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) Last time i.needed some (Ahem! Left some on wing while changing race wheels for road wheels. Doh!) Julie didn't have them in stock , but got me some in days. John Edited January 24, 2019 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 You don’t need the sleeve to be the full depth of the wheel. 10 - 15mm ok. sleeve only does location. The clamping force from the nuts and studs hold it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Nick Jones said: You don’t need the sleeve to be the full depth of the wheel. 10 - 15mm ok. sleeve only does location. The clamping force from the nuts and studs hold it all together. Ah that's the logic I need, I was fairly sure that the clamping force of a nut with washer had to be good enough, especially as that's what Peugeot use on the hot hatches. Not using a full length sleeve would be good, even possibly use a bit of sticktion to keep them hub end. Have found that I can get 14mm OD with 1mm wall tubing in Brass or Alloy, so may well pursue that approach. Its either that or put some new 3/8" studs in and carry on as the car survived a decade of competition like that, however I know it would always be in the back of my mind whereas you know the 12mm studs are never going to fail. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy_rich Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 6 hours ago, oldtuckunder said: you know the 12mm studs are never going to fail. Jon Wolfe sells them http://www.wolfitt.com/ on his Racing Products page, pretty sure they're what I have fitted and I've never thought about it since so you're probably right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Don't put them on with a windy gun, you will need to buy more than 12 if you do, don't ask me how i know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 5:30 PM, JohnD said: If any Triumph will be a Bitza, it'll be a race car! J. Well moved attention to the front brakes yesterday as Martyn has said they looked different, and anyway my plan was a complete strip/refurbish of the brakes as I'd be loath to trust someone I don't knows judgement at 10/10th's heading into a corner. All sort of went well up to the point I think I cracked a rib from coughing (don't ask) so now I have to move slowly and find odd comfortable positions to stand, sit, lie. And buggered if I'm going to spend a day at A&E surrounded by sick people with all sorts of unmentionables just to be told around midnight yes its a cracked rib bugger off home with some pain killers there isn't anything we can do. Anyway on to front brakes, Martyn has said he had it fitted with GT6 Uprights and discs and M16 calipers which is about what I'd go for on a light spitfire. However as JD guessed its now more of a Bitza. Its still got GT6 uprights, but its fitted with Princess 4 pot calipers, and I think Capri Discs (not vented but just solid cross drilled) I don't have the hubs off yet but as close as I can measure the discs are about 245m (which is about right for CaprI) The Princess Calipers (208C 3147) aren't wide enough to take a vented disc, and the mounting hole centres are 3 1/4" not the 3 1/2 of the M16's which means if my digging is correct someone managed to find a pair of the early Herald mounting plates. So conundrum time, my initial thought before I found they were Princess Callipers, was pull what's there and either refurbish or get refurbished. If they had been M16's or 16PB's the easiest solution would have been a new set from the Ford Rally boys (£90) they won't stand the silly prices the Triumph Specialist wan't (likewise pad prices). But a quick check shows that DIY refurb of these Callipers is about £50 plus time, or professional refurb around £140. So my intial thought was OK pull the Princess Callipers, get some GT6 mounting plates and a pair of new M16 Callipers. Then you start digging and realise that that also means new discs £50, GT6/Vitesse Mounting plates are NLA unless you want to buy Alloy ones around £140, a new set of mounting bolts £10 and then I find its been fitted with a trick set of Goodrich hoses with dual M10 female fittings and special adapters at the pipe and caliper end to mate them, so another £30+ on quid on new hoses. So whilst if I go that route I would have a set of 4 pot calipers and all the bits that I could throw on Ebay to defray some of the cost, I still have to do all the work and chasing, If I just pop the Princess Callipers up the road to Big Red they will refurb for around £150 and all I need to do is clean up the discs (surface rust zero wear) and bolt everything back together. OK we will be about 10kg heavier than with M16's (which makes all the previous mega drilled hole "add lightness" work a bit redundant). Either that or its find someone with a Vitesse/GT6 who wants to upgrade and has all the bits to swap. I think the Brakes were changed as in 2006-7 it was entered in a couple of Silverstone 100K Enduro 2 driver races, and maybe fade became a problem at the longer distances. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) I've had Princess calipers on the Vitesse almost since I had one. Then, spacers were available to make them fit Capri 2.8i vented discs, but no idea if they still are. Would your "Big Red" brake rebuilder know?The discs are £100 a pair from Burton Power, and the hubs need redrilling for the mount bolts. I use Mintex 1155 pads and the combination offers no warm-up for good grip at the first corner and NO fade, ever. John Edited January 27, 2019 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Big Red will probably know about the spacers. Got my 16P ones from them. Not especially high quality though. Spacers are easy enough to make. The extra callipers seals are the biggest challenge. Other thoughts Princess callipers weigh as much as small moon. HiSpec make alloy equivalents spaced for vented discs or not as desired. The new Type 16 callipers I’ve come into contact with are crap and have issues. Rebuild originals if you want faithfull service! You don’t need vented for Hill climbing - but you know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 Yes don't need vented, but if I did Rally Spares do the spacer kits with seals for about £30. Me i'd like to loose weight if I can, never had a problem stopping the Vitesse since switching to 1144's will take a look at the HiSpecs, but suspect that may lead to new discs, new pipes and pads at £100 a set instead of £40. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetecspit Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I had non-vented princess calipers on my last spitfire. They fitted straight to the spit uprights. And I am certain the discs were just GT6 (non vented) straight onto the spitfire hub. All worked fine, though I wasn't over impressed with greenstuff pads. GT6 caliper brackets should be easy enough to find? or used to be. I may even have some.... The m10 hoses should happily fit the metric type 16 calipers. As another thought, the ford M16 spacing is the same as the spit/herald size (princess calipers fit straight onto many fords) so may be an idea? not sure if they will fit the disc, I think Dave Pearson mentioned reducing disc diameter a little to do the conversion (distant memory that is possibly not 100% about size reduction) So just some more ramblings... I will have a look in the garage tomorrow sometime for brackets. If I find some want to swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Let's not fixate on "Princess calipers! They are 'two-pot' but only because Austin wanted to emphasise safety, and they were split so each piston pair wcould be on a separate pipeline. And they are near unobtanium these days. £650 a set on eBay! Modern four pots are available, for less. But really, their advantage is that they have a less tall pad for the same area, so the 'centre of pressure', the median point at which the friction is applied is further from the axle, so exerting more leverage and more braking. But this is a small advantage, only useful on the track. OE Triumph brakes, properly maintained , are perfectly adequate for the road. I didn't understand this when I fitted four pots, and I am sure that OE calipers, if combined with vented disks and 'hotter' pads, could give as good, fadefree stopping as I have, racing with the four pots. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 Well guys thanks! that was a bit of a world of pain trip (some physical as sitting at the computer until yesterday after a short period tended to provoke a large pain in my ribs) It seemed fairly easy when I started, just see if there were some HiSpec or other light calipers that would bolt on for a not to exorbitant price and look at selling the Princess Calipers to defray the cost a bit. Finding the Calipers with the same bolt spacing as the Princess ones wasn't hard, working out what disc size started getting a bit more difficult, and then I started hitting comments on various forums where people had used them that then then had problems with using 13" rims, and I'm not changing 3 sets of 13" rims to accommodate new calipers! Also rejected a few alloy options as even with 4 pots they had less area than a standard 16PB Caliper. So as physically I think I may be a week or so away from being capable of wielding a spanner to measure anything, I think I have ended up full circle where the sensible options seem to be: refurbish the Princess Calipers job done; get some Vitesse/GT6 mounting brackets and some metric 16PB Calipers and Vitesse GT6 Discs (on the grounds that there is a reasonably high certainty they will fit in the 13" rins; or maybe try a set of the Ford M16 Calipers as they have the 3 1/4" mounting spacing of the Princess ones and may just work with the Capri discs that are fitted. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 Well think I have found a solution, will do nothing for the braking efficiency but for £10 its going to look the Bee's Knee's https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4Pcs-3D-Car-Disc-Brake-Caliper-Covers-Front-Rear-Easy-Install-w-Keyring-Gift/323531478669?fits=Model%3APrincess&hash=item4b53fa968d:g:vM0AAOSwz5Nb3Qk1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 OK Decision made and parts ordered, for the price of refurbishing the Princess Calipers, I got a new set of Ford M16 Calipers, new mounting bolts, new Mintex 1144 pads and save a goodly number of Kilo's. The Princess Calipers can go up on eBay. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 11:11 PM, oldtuckunder said: Have found that I can get 14mm OD with 1mm wall tubing in Brass or Alloy, so may well pursue that approach. Its either that or put some new 3/8" studs in and carry on as the car survived a decade of competition like that, however I know it would always be in the back of my mind whereas you know the 12mm studs are never going to fail. Well as always life is never easy, having found the perfect studs I need to upgrade to 12mm https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/65131/10002/-1 I find that after two days searching, phoning and emailing absolutely nobody in the UK stocks them or anything near as long. Whilst the base price is OK $40 £32 by the time I have added on carriage, duty, VAT and some usererous charge from Royal Mail or UPS (or whoever) does the customs clearance, I'd be surprised if the total is as cheap as £75. Roll on Brexit when dealing with the EU is going to be the same pain! Shame I didn't get this sorted a couple of weeks back when my Drugs Mule (74 year old sister) came over with a few data logging electronic birthday presents for me, saves a fortune. Looks like its back to plan A and find a new set of good quality 3/8 studs Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Alan, Where in the states? If by any chance they are available in the Richmond area, (or you can find a method to have them shipped to a locker in Richmond, California) I can always collect them and fetch them back for you? Downside would be you would not get them until May, most likely? Cheers, Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 Hi Phil Many thanks, but between posting and your reply I had one of those Duh! moments. If I drop using the ET modified Sprint rims, and only use the Revolutions and the Supaslots (as I won't need more than 2 sets) then I can get away with shorter 12mm studs which are easy to get. I think I got carried away trying to find a solution to everything rather than focusing on what I really needed. Many thanks for the offer though. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Pretty sure I have a set of the long Jon Wolfe version in a drawer in the shed. Too long for a road car. I'll check 2morrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit131 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Perhaps you could swap the sintered for a cerametallic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 @oldtuckunder Just came across this on the internet. When I owned it I had a friend who was a motorsport photographer and was usually leaning on the armco at meetings. If you'd like lots of pictures of it in those days... drop me a line. So glad to see it's still in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Greetings Dave, welcome to Sideways. Very much regret to inform you that Alan passed away in August 2019. He never got to drive the car in anger, or really at all, though we did get it in a rolling road. I'm afraid I don't know where the car went but it was supposedly going to be raced so it may turn up again. Cheers Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Dave welcome and thanks for the offers of pictures. It would be great if you could post some of the car being used in anger. Alan was a true motorsport enthusiast and a great driver and engineer who was always helping out others (me!! ) in the paddock he had high hopes and plans for this car. im off to Curborough on Sunday for the seasons first sprint. Where I first met Alan. I shall raise a brew to him in fond memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now