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Not sure I should bring up Brixit but this is an interesting note from a small exporter who trades with the EU. Here is the start of what it means to leave the EU single market.
This is from a model engineering forum.

Some of our customers in Europe may be aware that there are transit delays for orders shipped from U.K. into Europe. Keeping this in mind, we request our European customers to place their orders through or website by 23rd December 2020. All such orders will be processed and dispatched on 24th December 2020. This will hopefully allow our couriers - DHL to enter the European Union by road service, before the 31st of December 2020.

ARC will stop - suspend selling into Europe from close of business on 23rd December 2020. ARC will re-start taking ders for selling into Europe on or around 5th January 2021.

With effect from 1st January 2021, new customs rules will apply for goods entering into Europe.

The good news for our E.U. customers will be that they will not have to pay U.K. VAT with effect from 1st January 2021. That is the only good news. The bad news at present is as follows:

1. Our couriers will have to make an export entry to leave the U.K., and they will have to make an import entry in the destination country. At present, the couriers will charge us and all U.K. exporters a fee for making an export entry of between £2.50 to £4.50. They will charge the importer between £11.50 to £13.00 to make an import entry in the country of destination.

2. There will be a delay in export from the U.K. for around two to three days while the couriers prepare and lodge export entries with U.K. customs for all the consignments which are loaded in specific road trailers. After this procedure is completed the trailer will be allowed to enter the channel tunnel or get on a ferry into Europe.

3. From 5th January 2021, the shipping charges stated on our website for shipping into E.U. destinations will include U.K. export entry charges (between £2.50 to £4.50) in addition to the road freight charges.

4. Once the goods reach their destination, depending on the couriers administration system in the country of import, they will contact the importer to ask them to pay the import entry charge (between £11.50 to £13.00) and taxes - duty (for goods above a certain value) and local VAT in the destination E.U. state. Once this is paid, the goods will be delivered to the importer. So, once again, this will cause delay.

At ARC,we believe that these costs are too high for most small value orders. These costs will be on top of the courier road freight costs which will also be increasing by 4.9% across all courier which we currently use.

At present we are uncertain if a solution for reduction in courier costs and delays can be found. If and when this happens, we will provide our customers with an update.

For now, we can only apologise for the inconvenience. We are very much aware that this development will make ARC less competitive for consideration by our E.U. customers.

Ketan at ARC.

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Given what we have been "sold" - yes it's fair to complain I'd say. As for the EU being too inward thinking, I believe that all this has been about the EU being too outward thinking and wanting t

Aye, they red listings...... This is really bad news for those of us who stay in the Scotland since we were using EU sellers because so many eBay England based sellers won’t sell to us as it is.

The fishing business is a red herring (pun intended). Its all about oversight. Always was. The unfeasibly rich pulling the strings (not all even British citizens) want the freedom to launder thei

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We were part of the biggest economic market ... in the World.     And we left it.    

And our "leaders" concentrate on the fishing industry, which is less than 0.1% of the UK economy and exports 80% of what it catches.   70% of the fish we eat is imported, so maybe they will break even there, who knows?   They don't.        They also behave about "Rules" like infants rebelling against school uniform, while daring to wear the clothes effected by the bigger, rougher gang down the road.      And when we are allowed, at breakneck speed but we are assured still safely, to use the latest vaccine, developed in Europe, by Europeans, they claim it as a triumph of Brexit!    It is so sad to see us brought so low.

JOhn

 

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Anyone who thinks that Brexit was about economics, or "putting GB back on the map", or whatever other ridiculous slogans you can come up with is at best delusional.

Brexit has served one purpose, and one purpose only, and that is to increase the power, wealth and corruption of the "top elite" of this country. That is why talks were hung up on fishing quotas (as John says, 0.1% of the economy!!), a refusal to align with EU laws (which of course protect common people, which is exactly what our ruler do not want) and a determination that the UK will not ever have to face consequences for its actions.

We will not have a Brexit deal, solely because Al de Piffle and his cronies CANNOT allow the last two points to be included, as they will more than likely be the first in the firing line.

Phil

P.S. I suspect that this thread possibly should reside in the "Ranting Area"??

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1 hour ago, mpbarrett said:

Yes maybe it should be in the ranting area.

Re fishing quotas guess who owns most of the UK fishing quotas or at least the ones not sold to the Europeans...

Revealed: the millionaires hoarding UK fishing rights - Unearthed (greenpeace.org)

mike

Sorry Mike, that wasn't meant to be a criticism of where you located this, more a reflection on my feelings on the subject :biggrin:

I had seen references to the ludicrousness of the fishing quotas, though not in as much detail as that article gives (I saw it on mainstream media, so of course it "glosses over" the main point!!) Thanks for the link, illuminating reading!

Phil

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The fishing business is a red herring (pun intended).

Its all about oversight. Always was. The unfeasibly rich pulling the strings (not all even British citizens) want the freedom to launder their stolen money and avoid taxes out of sight of prying regulatory eyes.

Sadly I conclude now that is is best if the beginning of the year unleashes at total shitshow of shortages and restrictions so the consequences of the tall-stacked stupidities are laid bare.

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Phil

Its difficult to not to feel passionate about Brexit and the EU.  I accept that the country voted for this but I am afraid a lot of people have not thought thru the full consequences of what is happening. Now you start to see the effects it will have on business. 

From FB posting from gentry cars...

image.png.150b258292a5ef6f188f15226c6fd731.png

The government/main stream media will blame the EU for everything and the economic hit will be blamed on Covid.... 

mike

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26 minutes ago, mpbarrett said:

Phil

Its difficult to not to feel passionate about Brexit and the EU.  I accept that the country voted for this........

mike

I sure don't! I live in a country that decisively voted against this, but of course was over-ruled by England.

Whilst I am generally not pro independence (for roughly the same reasoning I would have preferred to remain in the EU) I do feel that it is past time that Scotland gains it's independence from the UK (along with NI & Wales if they so wish). There is a marked difference to being stronger together vs being shackled to a rather heavy weight that has been thrown out the back of a plane without a parachute! Support would appear to be slowly growing in Scotland for another referendum, I do wonder if the tide makes a distinct turn in that direction after the New Year when the impact truly starts hitting home.

Phil

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This will be an 'interesting' question, come the inevitable, IMHO, independence of Scotland.       Which raises the equally 'interesting' Q, who can vote for or against?     Eventual citizenship is clearly based on birth, or, generously residence.  https://www.mcgillandco.co.uk/blog/how-do-i-become-a-scottish-citizen.html   But where will that leave the many expat Scots who live in England or further afield, with non-Scots spouses and children?  Son-in-Law is a proud Scot, they met at college in Scotland, Daughter was capped for Scotland (!) but grandsons born in England.

I favour Northern Independance!    Yorkshire alone has a bigger population than Luxembourg, and an economy equivalent to Scotland's, but central government spending in the North East and West regions are each less than is spent on London alone!

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5 hours ago, mpbarrett said:

I accept that the country voted for this

I don't believe that any of the UK voted for what seems likely to actually happen.

I now think that the whole thing was quite carefully planned and manipulated from well before the actual referendum.  Making the referendum "advisory" and downplaying it's importance it allowed substantial numbers of the people who very definitely had strong interests in the outcome (16 - 18 yo, British resident in the EU, EU citizens resident in the UK) to be excluded.  This was very definitely "stacking the deck.

Then the endless, never ending lies.  350m a week for the NHS, easiest deal in the history of the world, oven-ready deal....... doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

From "Haywardsward" a Guardian reader

The EU referendum was gerrymandered...
A House of Commons Briefing Paper 07212 (pdf download), published on 3 June 2015, pointed out to MPs, members of the House of Lords and other readers that the referendum was advisory only, and would not be binding on Parliament or government. This point was iterated viva voce by the Minister for Europe in the debate in the House of Commons later that month.
This was the reason given for not including a threshold and for not extending the franchise appropriately. The outcome was that 37% of the restricted electorate given the franchise for the referendum voted to leave the EU. This outcome is by any standards insufficient to justify a constitutional change so significant as the UK’s exiting the EU.
There is scarcely any civilised state in the world where a simple majority, let alone a small one, would permit this: for such a change, a supermajority would be required, of 60% or 66% either of votes cast or the entire electorate.*
Yet a small minority of actual votes cast, representing 37% of the total electorate, was taken by the politicians in favour of Brexit as not merely justifying but mandating the actions they took following the referendum. There is therefore nowhere near enough justification or legitimacy for a Brexit.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/09/28/the-eu-referendum-was-gerrymandered/
*The Commonwealth of Australia…To pass a referendum, the bill must ordinarily achieve a double majority: a majority of those voting nationwide, as well as separate majorities in a majority of states (i.e., 4 out of 6 states). In circumstances where a state is affected by a referendum, a majority of voters in that state must also agree to the change. This is often referred to as a "triple majority".

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10 minutes ago, JohnD said:

This will be an 'interesting' question, come the inevitable, IMHO, independence of Scotland.       Which raises the equally 'interesting' Q, who can vote for or against?     Eventual citizenship is clearly based on birth, or, generously residence.  https://www.mcgillandco.co.uk/blog/how-do-i-become-a-scottish-citizen.html   But where will that leave the many expat Scots who live in England or further afield, with non-Scots spouses and children?  Son-in-Law is a proud Scot, they met at college in Scotland, Daughter was capped for Scotland (!) but grandsons born in England.

I favour Northern Independance!    Yorkshire alone has a bigger population than Luxembourg, and an economy equivalent to Scotland's, but central government spending in the North East and West regions are each less than is spent on London alone!

Not that difficult IMO, anyone who wants Scottish Citizenship should be given it, at least initially.

Northern Independence - whilst I am in favour of the idea (it has been mooted before that most of the North of England are closer to Scotland than Westminster) I think recent elections have shown a distinct move to the right across North England so I suspect this would fail on the starting blocks.

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1 hour ago, thebrookster said:

anyone who wants Scottish Citizenship should be given it

Was born in Aberdeen...... left pretty swiftly though and since returned at about 20 year intervals. Lots of family history north of the border, though mostly educational.

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6 hours ago, mpbarrett said:

Phil

Its difficult to not to feel passionate about Brexit and the EU.  I accept that the country voted for this but I am afraid a lot of people have not thought thru the full consequences of what is happening. Now you start to see the effects it will have on business. 

From FB posting from gentry cars...

image.png.150b258292a5ef6f188f15226c6fd731.png

The government/main stream media will blame the EU for everything and the economic hit will be blamed on Covid.... 

mike

At the end, the amount of populism premiers, presidents, chancellors and politicians in general are ready to play with to fuel their lewdness towards might  and governance, is what drives the amount of wrong decisions .

At times, where populism appears to be popular all over the world the first duty of a government should be to do the utmost possible to avoid populism emerges even more and not to misuse it.

It’s really a pity to see Europe fall apart, especially taking into account that mostly people from the different countries get along quite well an like and respect each other.

On the other side, it’s obvious the political Europe and the Euro is far away from being smartly designed.  Too many flaws and overplayed officials defining the curvature radius of imported bananas instead of dealing with the paradigms coming up.

I understand that one gets fed-up with the tragedy composed in Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg- we all are.

But a bad compromise is always better than leaving the flying plane without a parachute…to plagiarize Phil.

 

Patrick

 

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At the risk of ranting, again... the fundamental problem with 'populism' is that it is predicated on lies. It cannot exist without the mendacious misrepresentation of history, international relations and 'opportunities', but the tuly depressing aspect is the degree to which ostensibly developed democracies have embraced it and allowed it to flourish, often to their own detriment. It rails against 'elites' despite being manipulated by a far more corrosive and undemocratic elite, who want power and wealth at the expense of the fools who believe them.

Trump has failed miserably in almost every aspect of his presidency, yet he still commands the respect of (perhaps, give or take a bit of Russian interference on his behalf) 70 million voters. He has royally c0cked up the whole response to Covid and has encouraged conspiracy theories to flourish, to conceal his abject failures, but a brief period of free-for-all, which put money in some people's pocket at the expense of the greater good, wins him witless support.  Similarly, in my neck of the woods, the fundamentalist Catholic fruitcakes now want to take Poland back to an angrarian idyll in which Poland was (allegedly) some kind of European power, rather than the funding parasyte it is in reality.

It points to the existential danger that democracy faces, as we enter a peiod of unprecedented access to information, where electorates the world over shy away from issues that frighten or challenge them.  They make critical decisions on an ever narrower range of topics and it seems that the candidate who lies loudest and most blatantly wins the vote.

Paul

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  • 4 weeks later...

Contrary to the hysteria of the EUrophiles, we left a dysfunctional political organisation, the EU,  we did not leave Europe, a geographic entity.

The much vaunted ‘biggest trading block’ represents just 15% of global trade, by 2030, it will be down to 10%. When we joined the EEC in 1973, it was 32%.

We were shackled to a dying corpse in long term decline.

In spite of Covid 19, the UK has just moved up to being the worlds 5th biggest economy - and will have caught up with Germany in a generation, making us the biggest economy and the most populous country in Europe.

Outside the EU, we can go after the 85% of global trade denied us by the EU’s protectionist tarrifs and quotas.

 

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“SIP Scootershop is shipping Vespa & Lambretta parts to the UK as usual, also after Brexit. Basic shipping method is as known UPS Standard with a Flatrate 6 € (aprox. 5,40 GBP) per order.

“Since January, 1 2021 we do not charge VAT any more to any order going to the UK, we do charge net prices as indicated in our webshop.

“Our customers receive their goods within 2-3 working days as they are used to by UPS. Express Service is available at extra costs. Around 2 weeks later customers will receive a „customs invoice“ with the “import turnover tax” equivalent to UK Vat, issued by UPS. All goods being sent by us are not subject to duties. 

“We are happy to say in total this is not changing very much for us as a supplier nor does it change very much for our valued UK customers. We are here for you, on our UK Hotline +44 (0) 2038 701487 as well as in our UK webshop. 

 

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Not a very large or typical sample you are presenting as evidence.

I’d be more inclined to listen to the likes of M & S or the car companies.

My company (UK sub of German manufacturer) have had to start arranging our own collections of larger (ie non TNT size) shipments from Bavaria as the factory wanted to charge handsomely for the extra paperwork. It is true that they have been unsympathetic to the brexit foolery from the beginning. But who can blame them?

Why do you defend it? What does it bring you personally?

Please don’t insult my intelligence with any more of the trade-deal bollocks.

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Just reading back through this thread.

Nick I fully understand your rapid departure from Aberdeen. Wise old simian that you are you were concerned about your balls. Aberdeen being one of the coldest places in Scotland :blink:

As for gerrymandering of the brevity vote I have to agree there too. Unfortunately us Scots have to take some of the blame for the simple majority vote as it was our own Alexi Salmonella (self confessed sex pest but NOT a rapist) who came up with that one for his 2014 indyref vote.

For the rest. We'll see as it's far too early to tell. Goods movements across the Channel are only around 30 - 40% of normal (source Road Hauliers Association and DfT) and there is no private travel to complicate things further. Even so some 20% of lorries have been turned back at the Channel ports due to paperwork issues ( source DFDS).

My son is still waiting for deliveries from The Netherlands and I have been unable to order from a couple of companies I have previously used in Germany.

Honda have suspended production due to supply chain issues.

You also cannot get Percy Pig sweets in NI owing to import uncertainty. 

I am sure this will sort itself out in time. But there will be an additional and enduring cost for paperwork regardless.

As for some of the other claims of future greatness, is that MBGA rather than MAGA? Only time will tell but it seems unlikely to come to pass, at least in my lifetime.

A saving grace for my children is that they will see a return to the EU. The only question being as Michael Hesseltine put it "which is more likely, that we lose Scotland or we rejoin before we've lost Scotland?".

One piece of good news on that front is that Gibraltar is now part of the Schengen Area, with EU Border Force support. We can only hope for the rest of us maybe NI will follow? Maybe Shetland and/or Orkney will declare UDI andjoin Shengen too. The SNP don't like it up em' with that particular bit of self-determination but you never know. 

As for the EU straight banana rules. Nothing has changed. They were and still are a fabrication, a 'story to scare children'. 

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Increased paperwork and Tax tracking numbers on all sales was always coming..... and it was the EU that wanted it.

how so?

The EU commission has been aware of the huge and increasing level of VAT and Tax evasion in online sales across Europe running into $Billions. Lots of firms have been using Chinese drop shippers to fulfil orders and pocketing the VAT, a very nice little earner.

The EU has pushed back their rollout of a new sales regime to close this loophole by 6 months because of Covid. 

So Brexit or not, everyone was going to be buying stuff from, and trading with Europe just like they do with the rest of the world - with that customs tag that no one seems to have any problem with when buying Triumph parts from America.

99% of the companies shouting ‘Grrrrr! Brexit’ are the ones with shambolic accounting systems, or have been in on the single market tax evasion scams.

 

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1 minute ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

Just reading back through this thread.

Nick I fully understand your rapid departure from Aberdeen. Wise old simian that you are you were concerned about your balls. Aberdeen being one of the coldest places in Scotland :blink:

As for gerrymandering of the brevity vote I have to agree there too. Unfortunately us Scots have to take some of the blame for the simple majority vote as it was our own Alexi Salmonella (self confessed sex pest but NOT a rapist) who came up with that one for his 2014 indyref vote.

For the rest. We'll see as it's far too early to tell. Goods movements across the Channel are only around 30 - 40% of normal (source Road Hauliers Association and DfT) and there is no private travel to complicate things further. Even so some 20% of lorries have been turned back at the Channel ports due to paperwork issues ( source DFDS).

My son is still waiting for deliveries from The Netherlands and I have been unable to order from a couple of companies I have previously used in Germany.

Honda have suspended production due to supply chain issues.

You also cannot get Percy Pig sweets in NI owing to import uncertainty. 

I am sure this will sort itself out in time. But there will be an additional and enduring cost for paperwork regardless.

As for some of the other claims of future greatness, is that MBGA rather than MAGA? Only time will tell but it seems unlikely to come to pass, at least in my lifetime.

A saving grace for my children is that they will see a return to the EU. The only question being as Michael Hesseltine put it "which is more likely, that we lose Scotland or we rejoin before we've lost Scotland?".

One piece of good news on that front is that Gibraltar is now part of the Schengen Area, with EU Border Force support. We can only hope for the rest of us maybe NI will follow? Maybe Shetland and/or Orkney will declare UDI andjoin Shengen too. The SNP don't like it up em' with that particular bit of self-determination but you never know. 

As for the EU straight banana rules. Nothing has changed. They were and still are a fabrication, a 'story to scare children'. 

Ah Irish trade!

there is, and always has been a huge amount of dodgy trade across the Irish Sea, but especially across the NI/ROI border. Ireland’s black economy is @25% of GDP.

fuel smuggling, tariff fiddling, the same cows and pigs go back and forward constantly to harvest $ millions in EU payments, Ireland is also a major drug and people smuggling hub into Europe. The terrorists didn’t go away, they merely moved into organised crime on an industrial scale.

and all those rackets are going to feel the pinch with hard borders and increased checks. 

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On 12/12/2020 at 1:58 PM, Nick Jones said:

The fishing business is a red herring (pun intended).

There is one local white fish trawler left here, the Boy Andrew.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boy+andrew+fishing+boat&safe=active&sxsrf=ALeKk00wXsqjyduPouO7OgjmtRW-vqvENw:1610276934070&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SiXhIKGO1AbfjM%2CXqq8vbkBErRIoM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQqHrDXHf-SdV3xwiz5wqXMK4E9cw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPnpSFnZHuAhURyxoKHZE7AxsQ9QF6BAgPEAE&biw=1615&bih=913#imgrc=SiXhIKGO1AbfjM

Despite all the promises to the contrary from the likes of Gove, very little has changed for them regarding the fishing,
however the owner is considering not going to sea time being.
This is because their catch is sold on the continent and getting it there in time for the markets is problematic due to the customs checks.

The creel boat industry didn't want to leave the EU.

The reality of the economic situation is that fishing is now miniscule in the UK.

 

Ian.
 

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Sadly so. Unlike the landings for export. 

Looking at this in the round though I am reminded of my working life in engineering where I eventually realised that while big shiny new projects were all well and good I much preferred the challenge of maintaining, improving and extending the life of the existing plant and equipment.

Much like my interest in improving cars or the 160 year old Victorian pile I live in.

Make what we have work better or throw it away.

Fundamentaly I see it as the same with Brexit and EU or with Scotland and it's relationship with the rest of the UK (and vice versa) or even dare I say Mr Churchill and Europe, well they started it :D

Do you run away from your friends because it's 'not fair' and doesn't work perfectly or do you stay, roll up your sleeves and fix it?

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