They live amongst us ………

[Nick Jones]

….. and are allowed to vote 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/13/quarter-in-uk-believe-covid-was-a-hoax-poll-on-conspiracy-theories-finds

We are definitely doomed 

[zetecspit]

The "clever" part of this stuff is it is based on stuff that is actually true. 

So teh climate change thing. Yes, it is being used by corporations to make money, and as an excuse for many changes that have little to do with CC.

The "replacement" theory. Yes, look around and there has been a change in the balance of ethnicity. And that is all the evidence some crackpots need. 

As to the terrorist stuff, that is gobsmacking. 

And then there is the paradox about govt tracking us, yet the people most concerned posting their every breath on social media. 

 

I was thinking about how "we" have been influenced by the digital age. When I was a kid, you say the news in the evening. By which time any story had been written, and probably then edited at least once so by the time it was broadcast (or printed for the next morning) it was properly checked and real facts established. Now we get raw news thrown at us in a constant barrage. So the *ahem* less bright members of society who simply cannot process the info, go into some sort of meltdown and are very vulnerable to manipulators. 

Right, better go do some work.

[JohnD]

I have no idea if the Gov is tracking us, but scammers are!  Just as an example:

"Screwfix" is a well known hardware store, and good value I think as I often see craftsmen buying there.    This morning I received an email that purported to be from Screwfix, but was clearly not, just from the senders email address.     To be able to email me,  someone has hacked the Screwfix data bank, that because of the online nature of the business (you order, pay and then collect, unless you have it delivered) will include credit card and address information from most of their customers.    Thank goodness I always pay by PayPal, which puts my credit card at another remove from the Screwfix data.

I have notified Screwfix.

John

[zetecspit]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

I have no idea if the Gov is tracking us, but scammers are!  Just as an example:

"Screwfix" is a well known hardware store, and good value I think as I often see craftsmen buying there.    This morning I received an email that purported to be from Screwfix, but was clearly not, just from the senders email address.     To be able to email me,  someone has hacked the Screwfix data bank, that because of the online nature of the business (you order, pay and then collect, unless you have it delivered) will include credit card and address information from most of their customers.    Thank goodness I always pay by PayPal, which puts my credit card at another remove from the Screwfix data.

I have notified Screwfix.

John

John, I get a junk box full of emails purporting to be from screwfix, asda and countless other retailers. Usually with the strapline of "you have been chosen"  (for us to get some juicy details)

Likewise teh CT forum has been hit hard by spammers in the past 48hrs to teh extent we have put in place manual approval for noobies. Oddly they were mainly advertsisng airlines. Very odd. All from teh Indian subcontinent, except one that was Liverpool!

[JohnD]

Yes, I saw that deluge, and went away, rapidly! Thanking the gods that it wasn't my problem!

But does the result of this Hoax Poll really mean that the population of the UK is largely credulous fools?   You can see the whole thing at:

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/assets/conspiracy-belief-among-the-uk-public.pdf

First, even if 6 million people are credulous fools, who shouldn't be allowed oxygen, let alone the vote, that's less than 10% of the population of the UK.   The IQ bellcurve, if you believe in that, looks like this'

This shows it divided into areas of 1,2 and 3 'sigma' a value in statistics which expresses the likelihood of an individual falling into that group.  It uses the "Standard Deviation" of the distribution, ad as you can see it is 95.4% IMprobable that a single individual will be in the groups either of extremely superior or inferior intelligence.   I'm not about to calculate what the probability is for the group of weirdos between 1 and 2 Sigma that make up a bit less than 10% of the population, but they will be there in the population, in small numbers.      Without them, we wouldn't have Einstein or Tim Berners-Lee, or the unfortunates who wear Bacofoil hats or believe in Flying Saucers.

Second, I'm a bit concerned that the report says nothing about how this data was collected.    Any science paper MUST include a section on "Methods" which in such a paper details the origin of the data, how it was collected, and how it was processed, including any statistical tests.    These are all missing from this report. which makes it unpublishable rubbish, if it wasn't a "Report prepared for BBC News and BBC Radio 4 podcast"     If a proper paper has beeen written, we're not told, so the "information" in it has to be treated as most suspect, and not worth serious consideration.

John

Edited June 13, 2023 by JohnD

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, zetecspit said:

John, I get a junk box full of emails purporting to be from screwfix, asda and countless other retailers. Usually with the strapline of "you have been chosen"  (for us to get some juicy details)

This thread is diverging, but anyway.   Of course you get sales pitch from such companies , but look to the origin!     Your web mailbox should show you the address from which it was sent.   This, like a phone call, can be spoofed to appear to be from a genuine sounding address, but in the case I referred to, the address was "noreply@githgccsub.com".   No on e can tell me that is "Screwfix"!   It's a spammer, and a poor one.  Goodbye, spammer!

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

The IQ bellcurve

Not sure the bell curve for IQ bears any kind of direct relationship with “credulousity” (possibly a new word). 

There appear to be too many with impaired critical-thinking ability though.  It’s taught in schools in some parts of the world….. definitely a life skill…. But possibly one that a certain type of politician would prefer the masses didn’t possess! (Or or is this another conspiracy theory )

[JohnD]

Which takes us back to the original reason for this thread.   "Critical thinking" is what people used to go to university to learn, and still should and do.  Look at the front page of Edinburgh U's INSTITUTE FOR ACADEMIC DEVELOPMENT's front page:

Critical thinking

Advice and resources to help you develop your critical voice.

Developing critical thinking skills is essential to your success at University and beyond.  We all need to be critical thinkers to help us navigate our way through an information-rich world. 

This discipline seems to have passed by many of the  graduates that constitute our Political Class.  When they were 'up' they were only about 10% of school leavers and from elite schools too.  Nearly a third go to Uni now, but how many will  be able to "Identify, Compare, Judge, Evaluate, Synthesise, Draw conclusions and Present their arguments"  in the way described by Edinburgh, in their epitome of Critical Thinking?

John

[Nick Jones]

University?! I was thinking of a rather earlier educational stage…..

[Escadrille Ecosse]

19 hours ago, JohnD said:

Which takes us back to the original reason for this thread.   "Critical thinking" is what people used to go to university to learn, and still should and do.  Look at the front page of Edinburgh U's INSTITUTE FOR ACADEMIC DEVELOPMENT's front page:

Critical thinking

Advice and resources to help you develop your critical voice.

Developing critical thinking skills is essential to your success at University and beyond.  We all need to be critical thinkers to help us navigate our way through an information-rich world. 

This discipline seems to have passed by many of the  graduates that constitute our Political Class.  When they were 'up' they were only about 10% of school leavers and from elite schools too.  Nearly a third go to Uni now, but how many will  be able to "Identify, Compare, Judge, Evaluate, Synthesise, Draw conclusions and Present their arguments"  in the way described by Edinburgh, in their epitome of Critical Thinking?

John

Sadly I fear that critical thinking, in the sense that we understand it, and Edinburgh claims to, is somewhat at odds with today's view that some subjects are entirely off limits. Back to the recent Roald Dahl nonsense for instance.

[JohnD]

They also drive among us.     Using my city's one way system this morning, I heard the Twos, and saw  the Blues in my mirror, about ten cars behind.      I pulled to the side of the two-lane street , but of the ten cars behind, eight just drove past me.      The pedestrian crossing lights ahead went red, and the last of the passers stopped, with the Fire Engine right behind.  Blues and Twos, and some frantic waving from the cabin eventually got them to cross the lights and let the appliance through.

Critical Thinking is about as  endangered a subject as Traffic Awareeness.

John

[RogerH]

...not just drivers. 

Last night apprx 8pm   an Asian man with two toddlers  allowed them to get on my front garden  wall and walk along.

All children like walking along walls.   But the dad was not watching the last of the two. She then proceeded to do pirouettes.

Then one foot missed the wall and down she came.. Hitting the back of her head with a mighty crack. It was loud.

The dad picked her up and smiled at me.   

Not serious enough for an ambulance but I did warn him to keep an eye on her in case of concussion .  This entered the left ear and went out the right.

Children must be adventurous but also be guarded (to a degree)

 

Roger

[DeTRacted]

21 hours ago, JohnD said:

They also drive among us.     Using my city's one way system this morning, I heard the Twos, and saw  the Blues in my mirror, about ten cars behind.      I pulled to the side of the two-lane street , but of the ten cars behind, eight just drove past me.      The pedestrian crossing lights ahead went red, and the last of the passers stopped, with the Fire Engine right behind.  Blues and Twos, and some frantic waving from the cabin eventually got them to cross the lights and let the appliance through.

Critical Thinking is about as  endangered a subject as Traffic Awareeness.

John

Amazingly, it is illegal to cross a red light in those circumstances and people have been prosecuted for doing so.  Apparently it is only legal if you are instructed to do so by a police officer.  Sometimes the law really is an ass. 

[JohnD]

You are correct, of course - Rule 219 Highway Code makes this an offence.   But even Police websites offer sensible advice, eg West Yorkshire: "If you do cross the stop line at the junction whilst the lights are on red, you will commit the offence of contravening a red traffic light. It's important to remember that in committing the offence (crossing the stop line) the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through. That may be considered as mitigation, but there is no guarantee that it will be. If the police decide to prosecute you for the offence and you choose to challenge that decision, it will ultimately be a matter for a court to decide."

But what does Rule 219 say?  "You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop"   Stopping at a pedestrian crossing, with a lit-up fire engine right behind you, does not comply with Rule  219!

One hopes that in the event of a Police prosecution, the Court would take the circumstances into account.

Tragically (or I hope not, as a bad outcome would have hit the news) a lad was knocked down at another set of local traffic lights, by a police car with its Blues and Twos on,  when he ran across the road in front of it!  Goodness knows what the lad was, or wasn't thinking.

John

[thebrookster]

To be fair, this law is in place to prevent "opportunistic" red light jumpers, usually the same a***holes who tailgate an emergency vehicle in order to pass everyone else!

As I have been led to believe, by both research and from those "in the know", if an emergency vehicle requires priority through a red light/junction etc, they will maintain their siren and lights to indicate such. You may at that point proceed through a red light/etc, provided you do so with care and don't endanger any one else in the process. The siren in particular is implicit permission at that point. If the EV is not on an urgent call, or if they assess a junction and decide it is not safe to have people clear a path, they will turn their siren off, and most likely sit back from the junction (if they follow their training that is), in these circumstances you are open to be charged if you jump a light.

Essentially it boils down to the fact that as a driver you hold the ultimate responsibility for your vehicle and actions. If you cannot do something safely, you don't do it, and blues/twos behind you doesn't change that fact.

So in John's case, 8 of the cars were either ignorant or wilfully disobeying by not pulling over (and I for one would love to see emergency vehicles equipped with cameras for the sole purpose of issuing FPN's on a rising scale to these drivers, 3 ticket being loss of licence, there is NO excuse for not being 100% aware of what is around you whilst driving a motor vehicle), however by his description the car requested to proceed through the pedestrian crossing was at the behest of blues/twos and therefore any charge would likely be dismissed.

Worth noting as well that the majority of tickets from red light jumping in these circumstances are issued by cameras, not police officers!

[DeTRacted]

1 hour ago, thebrookster said:

You may at that point proceed through a red light/etc, provided you do so with care and don't endanger any one else in the process. The siren in particular is implicit permission at that point.

No - that is completely wrong. You are not allowed to pass a red light under any circumstance except when directed by a policeman. 

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/fined-for-moving-out-of-the-way-of-an-ambulance/

https://blog.greenflag.com/2017/letting-emergency-vehicle-pass/

https://www.bluelightaware.org.uk

Edited June 24, 2023 by DeTRacted

[JohnD]

OK, DTR,

YOU can wait while the Firefighters/Ambulance/Police are delayed by YOUR 999 call!    

John

 

[DeTRacted]

Oh FFS John I'm not saying it is right - just that it is the law and that people have been prosecuted for letting blue-lights through.  Maybe the law need to be changed.....?

[Escadrille Ecosse]

34 minutes ago, DeTRacted said:

Oh FFS John I'm not saying it is right - just that it is the law and that people have been prosecuted for letting blue-lights through.  Maybe the law need to be changed.....?

One of the many ways doing 'the right thing' can bite you.

And I wonder how many of those 'prosecutions' were actually charges that were dropped when challenged.

Although I suspect as Hamish pointed out any actual prosecution was as a result of cameras, going through dangerously or just taking the p1ss.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

And on a vaguely related but rather lighter note I happened upon this... The 'perils' of air combat and attempting to follow orders. Most amusingly presented.

 

[Nick Jones]

Yes, I like that very much…..

He seems to be setting up for a sequel (involving USAF) at the end?

[Escadrille Ecosse]

21 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Yes, I like that very much…..

He seems to be setting up for a sequel (involving USAF) at the end?

Yes. I looked that one up. It's even more embarrassing. They miss the plane entirely and manage to set fire to quite a lot of America 

I'm sure he'll tell it better though 

[JohnD]

There's another about "The Russian  bomber that got lost"   It flew to Iran and back, without meaning to. 

[DeTRacted]

Mildly irritating that as Brit the chap doesn't know we have LEFtenants rather than the left-pondian LOOtenants. 

/pedant mode off

 

The US attempt is here:

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by DeTRacted

[Escadrille Ecosse]

13 minutes ago, DeTRacted said:

Mildly irritating that as Brit the chap doesn't know we have LEFtenants rather than the left-pondian LOOtenants. 

/pedant mode off

 

The US attempt is here:

 

Yes. However as a pedant too and the son of a one time RAF Squadron Leader I did leave a comment to that effect