May's Brexit Plan

[JohnD]

Hear, Hear!

[Nick Jones]

50 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Hear, Hear!

+1

[Adrian Cooper]

Well said Paul. That's the most balanced summing up of the current situation I've read anywhere.

[oldtuckunder]

On 3/24/2019 at 4:55 PM, oldtuckunder said:

likewise the march, 1 million middle class respectable people organising by coach, train etc to go to london and march around quietly saying this is all stupid please stop it has politically about the impact of about a 1/5th of the online vote. a city the size of london could handle a well behaved crown three times that size, and still it would have zero impact on the thought process that those who  are going to decide our fate.

if you want to protest, protest, but don't piss about at it if you want to have any effect. give me a 10th of the people who went to london yesterday, who tomorrow would get in their cars and drive to the nearest big city or town tomorrow morning and by lunch time we woul have the whole country in grid lock, authorities would then notice that little people can actuallyhave an impact!

well looks like the current climate protesters have proved my point, the authorities just can't handle a peaceful protest where the protesters just refuse to go where/when the authorities want them to. i feel new draconian freedom of movement rights  or asbo assembly legislation coming. thank god TM isn't still Home Sec, otherwise she'd be pulling the Empire Windrush out of mothballs and shipping them all out (hows Australia on climate protesters Craig?, or would they go unnoticed? as there by midday everyone's saying "corblimey cobber f'ing hot today"

alan     

[JohnD]

It's the old passive resistance tactic, used by CND, and by Mahatma Gandhi before that.

Gandhi was pushing at an unlocked door, and was successful in achieving Indian independance, but if Mutually Assured Destruction is no longer a national strategy, I fear that CND can't take the credit.     

Hot as Oz?   We once had an Australian exchange with a dept. in Victoria.    They arrived in May, it was raining, and our visitors finally snapped after every single person they met apologised for the weather    "It does bloody rain in Melbourne, y'know!"

John

[Nick Jones]

I’d say that “The Saj” is cut from the same cloth as the Maybot when it comes to mistreating citizens (or denying they are citizens).

The list of evil behaviour, the kind of behaviours more reminiscent of third world dictatorships than our “mature democracy” (Ha! ) originating from the home office grows ever longer.......

[JohnD]

Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but what a surprise?    Party Political this evening and the Liberals are out of the closet, the first real party to say "Stop Brexit!".   A lifelong Labour voter (did you guess) I'm hopeless that they can make a difference, diverted as usual by infighting.       Vote LibDem!

John

Edited April 26, 2019 by JohnD

[zetecspit]

I think the libdems have always been clearly anti-brexit.

At least they are honest, if only they were significant.

[JohnD]

As the leader of "Change Britain" refers to their HQ as Tigger Towers (vomit bags, snyone?) there isn't an alternative for a Remainer.   Vote LibDem!th

John

[PaulAA]

The ComRes and Opinium polls conducted over the last week and published yesterday are startling - a party with precious little policy, other than wrenching the UK out of the EU as quickly and painfully as possible, is garnering over a third of the vote, leaving the LibDems as the forerunning anti-Brexit party, way back in fourth place.

Farage has now opined on his belief that private healthcare should 'take the strain' off the NHS.  For as long as I can remember, there has been a running theme in British public opinion, covering everything foreign policy and security to language and culture, that Westminster is allowing the UK to become the 51st State.  Now we have an electorate that is knowingly welcoming an individual who would not only be elected on the promise of making that relationship closer, but would subjugate the country into a more profane version of the vassal status he claims to be rescuing it from.  In the relationship with the EU, the UK is a equal partner.  In a dependent relationship with the US, it will not be.

I saw a long thread of readers' comments in the DT yesterday (my resource when I feel like an argument), trying to explain that a bit of chlorine in your chicken was, in fact, good for you and certainly better than that healthy muck that the 'Nazis in Strasbourg' force Europeans to eat.  As a casual observer from over the water, I can only conclude that the UK has seriously lost sight of the map.

Paul

[Nick Jones]

It is an appalling state of affairs.  Possibly encouraged by the Brexit party being the only organisation apparently sufficiently motivated to send my kids barefaced lies and bullshit in the post masquerading as election material 

"Take the strain off the NHS" is code for "sell it directly to the the American owned healthcare and healthcare insurance companies (so they can get obscenely richer at our vast cost)"

And if any of you brexiters think this is a good idea, you really need to have good hard look and where it inevitably leads.

[GT6MK3]

Brexiters won’t care Nick.  They’re old and/or rich enough that they don’t need or want to pay for the NHS.

They’ll happily sell your boys’ futures to save their own nest eggs.

[Janner]

2 hours ago, GT6MK3 said:

Brexiters won’t care Nick.  They’re old and/or rich enough that they don’t need or want to pay for the NHS.

They’ll happily sell your boys’ futures to save their own nest eggs.

Hi

You need to be careful with your generalisations

Most of the old have grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Without fail, the ones I know, use the NHS, care for their families and communities and are spending their "nest egg" giving the aforementioned little ones (often now, not so little any more) the help they need to get a start in life. 

 

If the above, is, in your opinion, wrong, then we are going to have to agree to differ

 

John

[PaulAA]

John

You (in the general, non-personal sense) also need to be careful with the horse you pick.  I am afraid that electing another bunch of asset-strippers and de-regulators will serve no good purpose, other than line the pockets of the odious few that I keep banging on about.

With pensions, it certainly appears that the UK is ill-placed to continue supporting the unprecedented public service provisions promised to the generation currently retiring.  How can a pension in excess of £100k realistically be justified for a civil servant?  I know that it's practically impossible to renege on promises made in the 'good' times, but people of working age below 40 now have the triple whammy of paying these pensions (through NI), buying private pensions for themselves (because the state pension will gradually becoming an unsustainable source of income) and saving for a deposit.

A lot of inter-generational support occurs - I wouldn't claim otherwise - but it will be a diminishing return.  Will this generation be able to provide the same level of support to their children in 20 years' time?  I somehow doubt it.

Paul

[JohnD]

The next opportunity for political "clusterfuck" will be the European Elections, and the "Brexit Party" seems to be on a charge.    Or, Farage.

Whoever it was who  first said that, "All that is necessary for bad men to prevail is for good men to do nothing" they were right.    Perhaps a later version. "When bad men combine, good men must organise" is better, certainly it's pithier.      But let us define "good" as anyone with an honest point of view, carefully thought out, not one influenced by partizan self-seekers.      And urge them all to vote next week.   In the UK, European elections have never achieved more than  a 40% turnout, hardly enough for a reliable result.     The Referendum got 72%!

I know this European election seems pointless in the UK, but lets make it one that gives a real result, one way or the other!

JOhn

[PaulAA]

John

There is an interesting contention that voting for the Brexit Party in the European elections makes sense.  If they aim to deliver change rather than just disruption, it would achieve what the closet leaver Cameron was not interested in achieving - a substantial change in the UK's relationship with Europe.  It would be ironic if the Leave camp bought about something which simply made leaving the EU unnecessary....

Paul

[JohnD]

Even holding my nose and closing my eyes, I couldn't vote for Farage.    

John

[Nick Jones]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

Even holding my nose and closing my eyes, I couldn't vote for Farage.    

John

+1

[PaulAA]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

Even holding my nose and closing my eyes, I couldn't vote for Farage.    

John

I'm sorry - I've been experiencing dizzy spells today... I even watched a James Goldsmith interview.

I'm better now and have washed my mouth out with soapy water.

Paul

[Scooter]

 

[JohnD]

My eyes - my eyes!

[Sprint95m]

With the Prime Minister's announcement this morning that she is standing down,
it is rather undignified end to this part of the saga.

 

 

 

Ian.

 

 

 

[PaulAA]

46 minutes ago, Sprint95m said:

With the Prime Minister's announcement this morning that she is standing down,
it is rather undignified end to this part of the saga.

And to this thread, since there is no longer even the pretence of a plan...

Paul

[zetecspit]

Did anybody see David Mellor this morning on the BBC?

He was very straight about the whole mess, and despite admitting he voted for Brexit on the basis it would be "naughty" he thinks a fresh referendum is a good idea and is pretty blunt about why. 

I actually liked what he said... not that it amounts to much, but shows how the old politicians are hanging their heads in shame at the shenanigans that labour and conservatives are indulging in.

[JohnD]

You know what this means, don't you?     Johnson gets to be PM.    Boris Johnson, liar, braggart, adulterer, racist, above all self-admirer and the worst Foreign Secretary, since ... ever.

  To come over all Johnson, "O tempora, o mores! Senatus haec intellegit. Consul videt; hic tamen vivit." (O, these times and morals! The senate is aware of these things; the consul sees them; and yet this man lives)    I do not advocate execution, as did Cicero of Catiline, but this man's political life should have been cut short.   He is a gaudy woodlouse.  Or just a louse.

This isn't my prejudice.     The bookies are offering around 5 to 4, which is better  than evens.  Next is  "Dominic Raab" (Who?) at 7/2 or Govie at 9 to 1, the rest of the field, trails well behind.   Excuse me while I seek Irish citizenship, or Australian.  Or anywhere.

John

Edited May 24, 2019 by JohnD