JohnD Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I read this article in the Guardian; Mike Rosen, past Children's Laureate and engaging broadcaster, as well as author and poet, asks, what is a fronted adverbial? https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/23/dear-gavin-williamson-could-you-tell-parents-what-a-fronted-adverbial-is?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR3aZ81GU7ArZpmOQJ41wbZ0xmdwB_eIrrHS9dvlA0u_4UrduKZNoon3ZNc I copied it to Daughter, whose son is Grandson No.1, with the astounding vocabulary, to warn her of trouble ahead. She replied, that's nothing she had already had to deal with Split Digraphs. Before you look it up, and to save you the pain, a fronted adverbial is the 'before' at the beginning of this sentence. And a split digraph? A digraph is two letters making one sound, as in 'sea' or 'who', and a split is where there is a consonant between them, as in a-e' (cake), 'i-e' (five), 'o-e' (code), 'e-e' (sphere) and 'u-e' (rule). You will note that all those (Note! 'those'! Split digraph!) are what I call 'Magic E' where the terminal e causes the preceding vowel to be pronounced as the capital. Not 'thos' but ' thooooose'. Or the converse, 'thus' pron thuhs, not thews! Do we have to learn our language as a technical parsing exercise? I HATED parsing, it destroyed the language, and humbly I suggest that ignoring it has done mine no harm. Fine for tertiary study and EFL - not for kids! JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Well I’ve managed 53 years without ever knowing such things existed (until I read Michael’s article a few hours ago), and I think I’m fairly literate. So clearly these thing are not especially essential. Just pointless jargon really. Some managerial types trying to justify their existence and sod the kids.... Like phonetics to teach reading. Our kids didn’t like that at all. Though as they could read before they went to school.... wasn’t a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I've just got my head around the 'Gerund' and now they slip in some more. Latine referam. Hoc est quod dico Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidescreen Vicky Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Fronted adverbials seem to be the in thing! This was sent to me on facebook today. It made me chuckle and very glad that I am not one of those poor parents trying to home school my kids. (Apologies for the colourful language) Credit: This is Biff. This is Chip. This is Biff and Chip's homework. Biff and Chip are required to write down ten examples of fronted adverbials. Biff and Chip have not a fucking clue what a fronted adverbial is. This is Mum. Mum has not a fucking clue what a fronted adverbial is either. "We don't know what a fronted adverbial is," whinge Biff and Chip. "This homework is impossible. You will have to help us." "It's not my homework, it's your homework," says Mum, thanking her lucky stars that she did not have to engage in any of this fronted adverbial bollocks when she was at school. This is Dad. Dad still struggles to distinguish between a noun and a verb, and would not know a fronted adverbial if one came up and punched him in the face. Biff and Chip think for a moment about asking Dad for help. They decide to Google instead. This is Mrs May. When Mrs May went into teaching she honestly believed she would be able to spend her time helping children to love learning. And putting on plays. Mrs May loves a play. She did not realise that a love of learning would not feature on the National Curriculum at all, and that she would instead be forced to meet a series of impossible and continuously moving goalposts which successive governments would put in place, and have to teach her classes about ridiculous concepts such as fronted adverbials which, in all honesty, are only ever likely to be of use if they end up becoming professors of linguistics. Or primary school teachers. If truth be told, Mrs May has not a fucking clue what a fronted adverbial is either. This is Floppy the dog. Floppy holds no truck with fronted adverbials. Floppy eats the fronted adverbial homework sheet. Floppy knows that he is a fucking liability, and waits to be told so. No one is more surprised than Floppy when the entire family gather around and tell him "Oh GOOD dog Floppy." Floppy feels this is proof positive that some good can come from fronted adverbials after all. Later at school, Biff and Chip are, for the first time, able to legitimately use the excuse: "My dog ate my homework." Mrs May breathes a secret sigh of relief that that is one less set of incomprehensible and entirely incorrect homework that she has to plough through, and suggests to the class that they will all put on a play instead to celebrate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I have Nigel Molesworh to thank for my introduction to the Gerund. Brilliant stuff! Just went to check which book it was and it looks as if is 'someone' has tossed them all. Bloody Marie Kondo! Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 That pretty much covers it. One has to to wonder just who the faceless, joyless bastards who come up with the bollocks that is the NC are? And why anyone thinks they are fit for purpose. Mind you, we had to sit a company knowledge test a couple of years back on the pretext that it would help those tasked with our ongoing training plan the way forward. It was pretty objectionable. Very careless question setting that seemed to be framed to draw out wrong answers. Patronising, with much of the company-specific stuff based on a single presentation from several years previously, whose numbers disagreed with other sources so it was impossible to be right unless you happened to have the right source. Plus quite a bit of the basic pump stuff was actually wrong (you can’t change the laws of physics captain!). Some translation problems too, but not many. I don’t like to criticise my German colleagues language skills as a). Some of them probably have more accurate written English than I do & b). I have very little German. Perhaps unwisely, they asked for comment at the end. Perhaps more unwisely, I gave them comment and was fairly forthright. This was NOT well received. My penance was to go through question by question and explain the issues. That took quite a while..... My UK boss was hugely amused as his opinions on the matter were much the same as mine, but his comments more diplomatically phrased. The whole thing seems to have been quietly dropped now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 Thank you, Vicky! That was better than Rosen's article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Is a fronted adverbial perhaps connected to the frontal lobotomy of its creator? Ludicrous. It would be a better use of teachers' time to have them focus on developing a better grasp of the basics of grammar, punctuation and composition. But I suppose that the ability ot communicate coherently, write correctly and organise a business letter is not the point of the NC... I have been obliged to tackle the study of language since childhood. It never seems to come to an end, yet I had never previously heard of a fronted adverbial. I had a sneaking suspicion that it may be the required response to a Steinitz Gambit, but it appears that I am wrong. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, PaulAA said: It would be a better use of teachers' time to have them focus on developing a better grasp of the basics of grammar, punctuation and composition. Or even just teaching them to read at a competent level.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Nick Jones said: Or even just teaching them to read at a competent level.... Dat true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 With spell checkers on every device how else could the grammar police continue to wield a stick over the poor sods forced to sit english exams. I blame academics in Dept of English desperate for a publication in some arcane journal. Get my drift, innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Talking of knife welding maniacs, i showed this to the wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Well, that's a new one on me too. I've certainly never been taught that, but it may be that I use it unconsciously..... I would certainly agree about the dragons for example..... Mind you, my primary education was a very long time ago, almost none of it took place in the UK, and some of it took place in American influenced schools, so it took me ages to sort out how to spell things like gray and color..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 Borrocks. Try "old French silver green little old whittling knife"? "Little-old" and "whittling-knife" should be hyphenated, they are so closely connected. Anyway no one would write eight adjectives to one noun, and if you are a Hemingway, none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 New to me. Does the rule agree with super cali fragil istic expi ali docious ? If so its an american invention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) We are not the only ones! The journalist Tim Dowling (who is American, but PAX, Nick, read on!) wrote in astonishment about this 'rule' in 2016, and in response to exactly the same picture that Red Rooster showed! https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/13/sentence-order-adjectives-rule-elements-of-eloquence-dictionary Which immediately aroused my suspicion - this has to be Internet/Facebook 'false news'! But no! The Cambridge Dictionary, no less, gives it as well, and more extends it to TEN ranks! Viz; order relating to examples 1 opinion unusual, lovely, beautiful 2 size big, small, tall 3 physical quality thin, rough, untidy 4 shape round, square, rectangular 5 age young, old, youthful 6 colour blue, red, pink 7 origin Dutch, Japanese, Turkish 8 material metal, wood, plastic 9 type general-purpose, four-sided, U-shaped 10 purpose cleaning, hammering, cooking ANARChY! I WANT ANARCHY!! I want a metal Dutch helmet, I want youthful lovely peoeple around me (not ugly ones, but deffo young) I want cooking rough potatoes. Refuse the Rule! But there is worse! Mr.Dowling mewling lacky of the running dogs of English Garmmar that he is, introduces us to "ablaut reduplication". I cannot bear to tell you, so read about it for yourselves. It's all too, too much. http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/a-hotchpotch-of-reduplication John Edited January 24, 2021 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, JohnD said: ANARChY! I WANT ANARCHY!! Nurse! His pills - quick! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 12 hours ago, JohnD said: I cannot bear to tell you, so read about it for yourselves. It's all too, too much. Oh, a big long word to describe something we’ve all know about since we started learning to speak (never mind read)...... Bottom line - mostly pointless jargon invented by obsessives (who prefer to be called specialists or experts) to make their subject more impenetrable to the outsider, presumably in an attempt to appear smarter/more important. Not a phenomenon in any way restricted to the grammar mafia..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Utter Tish Tosh if you ask me. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 14 hours ago, PeterC said: New to me. Does the rule agree with super cali fragil istic expi ali docious ? If so its an american invention. Peter A clear example of abnormative sublimition. Now, where do I submit my consultancy fees? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetecspit Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 My youngest (the one who likes driving FAST, on track of course) is a primary teacher in London. She is NOT a fan of having to teach picky terminology to her kids. In fact, she is not happy at all at the moment. Kids in her classroom, and about 50 online at any one time. A logistical nightmare and I think she is beginning to lose the plot! I may not have helped yesterday buy suggesting she told the kids to have a snow day.... My next suggestion was going to be that she disabled teh svchool boiler, but that wouldn't make much difference as all the windows are wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Try teaching them Latin, they'll soon find it necessary to stay home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetecspit Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, PeterC said: Try teaching them Latin, they'll soon find it necessary to stay home. The teachers? My daughter certainly would, never been keen on languages. She has passed her French test though, can buy food etc OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 24 minutes ago, zetecspit said: The teachers? My daughter certainly would, never been keen on languages. She has passed her French test though, can buy food etc OK. No, the youngsters. I detested Latin, but at the time it was a requirement for uni entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 27 minutes ago, PeterC said: No, the youngsters. I detested Latin, but at the time it was a requirement for uni entry. Must have been some posh uni then. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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