rogerguzzi Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 27 minutes ago, 2.5piman said: Hello Roger, I have a Lister HR6 generator, but your one at 850 sounds wrong. For 50 Hz you should be at 750 rpm, assuming a four pole pair generator? Alec Hello Alec That,s a big B******r mine is from a different era and why you are confused it is belt drive so the the alternator runs at 1500 I think (will check with my tachometer tomorrow) I will start a different thread showing photos Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Hello All Some more thoughts on my cylinder head chambers. I remembered I had purchased a copy of the British Leyland Competition Preparation manual for Spitfires! Here is what they say about 1500cc heads I have dragged the old TR6 cylinder head out to compare it to Spittys! The inlet valve is the same size but exhaust is bigger. The bore size is near a dam it the same size but the stroke is longer 95mm(TR6) 87.5mm(Spitty) So cylinder capacity is 416cc TR6 378cc Spitty So does that mean if I get 100bhp it would be 127bhp/ton? (Spitty weighs 800kg = 1760 lbs TR6 1122kg = 2468lbs) TR6 PI (good one standard) 150bhp would be 136bhp/ton or a sorted carb one 120bhp = 109bhp/ton The heads only really differ on the inlet port position(higher) but still 1.250" dia exhaust port is slightly bigger. So my plan now is to clean up the Knackered head on one chamber measure capacity and on spark plug side grind the steps away then machine the step off between the inlet and exhaust then remeasure to see what Compression ratio that would give? If still to high machine opposite the plug to a chamfer and remeasure! This way I can work out what needs to be done to the £10 head. What I had not noticed when I changed the cylinder head for my brother in law was the valve guides are BRONZE and to make it worse UNWORN as are the 4 valves I have carried all around Europe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (its just the head had one burnt valve seat and the head we acquired had hard seats fitted) I have all ready ordered a set!!!!!!!!!!! Still it means I can build 2 heads up complete(for the price of one extra set of exhaust valves) What is the general thinking on valve stem clearance with bronze guides? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 09/12/2017 at 9:17 PM, rogerguzzi said: I think I will get a set of valves or I could just modify one chamber and use and old valve to measure chamber and see what I get? Can't find it now, but I think the question came up about differences between Stainless Rim Flow valves and Standard Valves and chamber volume. Just found my rebuild notes and found that in my chambers the inlet valve swap only with 36.5mm valves took the volumes from 32cc to 33cc. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motov8id Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 the back side of stainless valves are very flat and thin compared to OE valves facilitating flow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 Hello All The valve guides seal have arrived so I thought I would machine an old guide to accept one but I am not sure now as it looks a bit thin? The guide is 12.7 mm dia and the seal 10.5 mm i/d and the valve stem 8 mm dia so only leaves 1.5 mm wall thickness? Now I know this would be the same on a VW but they are overhead cam so pushing straight down not trying to push the valve over as a rocker arm does! There are these on Fleabay but I do not know the stem size on these(look the same as the Chris Witor ones!) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-MINI-CYLINDER-HEAD-VALVE-STEM-OIL-SEAL-TOP-HAT-Set-of-8-ADU4905-KIT/162731869742?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 I have these. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-10-INLET-EXHAUST-VALVE-STEM-OIL-SEAL-SET-TOPRAN-100-207/182696785846?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 or there are these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-MINI-CYLINDER-HEAD-VALVE-STEM-OIL-SEAL-TOP-HAT-Set-of-8-ADU4905-KIT/162731869742?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Chris Witor ones https://www.chriswitor.com/proddetail.php?prod=CW2903 Or am I worrying about nothing? they clear the inner spring by about 0.6 mm (seal 14.1 mm o/d spring 14.77 mm i/d) Roger I could make the step a radius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I reckon it'll be fine....... I think the Mini ones are the ones Chris Witor sells. They don't have a metal sleeve and don't need so much taking off the guide. They do need a groove at the bottom for a rubber lip to drop into though. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Nick Jones said: I reckon it'll be fine....... I think the Mini ones are the ones Chris Witor sells. They don't have a metal sleeve and don't need so much taking off the guide. They do need a groove at the bottom for a rubber lip to drop into though. Nick Hello Nick I have ordered a set of the Mini ones it would be easy enough to machine a groove into the guide and it looks like there is less taken off the o/d of the guide Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Looks good to me. You have only machined the top section of the guide, and the actual sideways force exerted on that section will be fairly minimal I would have thought? If there was enough force on it that you had to start worrying about the wall thickness then I would be suspecting that something else was not quite right? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 My bronze guides were machined to take the Reinz seals https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-X-Ford-RS2000-Pinto-CVH-Style-Reinz-Valve-Stem-Seals-70-31056-00/122569606955?epid=650148167&hash=item1c89b7c72b:g:WF4AAOSw~y9ZLD~N Then I discovered that I couldn't use the twin springs with them! So I just popped on a set of the CW ones and haven't had any problems with them, and they worked! I have no idea how long they are supposed to last, but just change them every time I have the valves out. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Hello All I was doing a bit of work on the 1300 cc head and I was looking at the valve seats and they do not look to bad so I thought I would try a light lap in with 2 old valves with good faces(TR6 and one new) So I dug out my valve grinding compound and then it got me thinking how long have I had these tins? I am pretty sure they are from very early 70,s(that,s the 1970,s not the 1870,s!) Chemico was a local firm back then as I lived in Shirley. I have no idea where the Clover one came from! Roger ps seats look quite good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) I'll take your Chemico and raise you a Romac This was my fathers, and in his workshop for as long as I can remember, I inherited when I became the one playing with engines the most, its nearly at the end of its life, just about enough Fine for one last head, and enough Coarse for a few more. I see on the web someone is selling an identical tin, with contents for 10E + 5E postage, Shall I? Alan Actually on ebay I see someone is selling 12 new tins of Chemico for £24, just worked out that if each lasts as long as I think this Romac one has, I could still be lapping in valves up to the next millennium! Edited December 21, 2017 by oldtuckunder more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, oldtuckunder said: I'll take your Chemico and raise you a Romac This was my fathers, and in his workshop for as long as I can remember, I inherited when I became the one playing with engines the most, its nearly at the end of its life, just about enough Fine for one last head, and enough Coarse for a few more. I see on the web someone is selling an identical tin, with contents for 10E + 5E postage, Shall I? Alan Actually on ebay I see someone is selling 12 new tins of Chemico for £24, just worked out that if each lasts as long as I think this Romac one has, I could still be lapping in valves up to the next millennium! Hello Alan We could go for the Clover 25lb tin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then regrind all the Classic cars in the country? plus a few more! I have a tin of engineers blue from the same era made in Somerset I think? It all makes me feel old! Still not made in China! Roger ps lets see everybody elses old stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Pretty sure I've got a pot of the Chemico stuff - it's a stripey tin at any rate. My most treasured tin is a 1kg size of Lockheed red rubber grease. Had it about 20 years and I reckon it'll see me out....... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 On the subject of valve lapping, a small £15 investment I hope will this time remove one of the constant frustrations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 Hello All I had another look around the garage!(its like a Time Warp in there!) I also have a tin of red rubber grease(mine has gone a bit liquid! but still half full) The 3 tins of Vaseline 2 are still full!(They came from an old aunts shop in Norfolk) she died about 30+ years ago and the shop had been shut then for 20+ years! The grease came from the late father in laws 8 years ago and he had not had a car for 10+ years I have know idea where the dubbin came from but I have use it on motorcycle boots. The leak seal must be from 25+ years when we ran an old Moggy Traveller! The Engineers blue I acquired about 1970 when working as a machine tool fitter making power press automatic feeds Plus all the old Tobacco tins with small parts in! I even have one that must have been army issue as it is dark green and is printed on the lid Boiled Sweets! When we cleared out the Aunts old cottage back then there were blue bags on a wooden sticks, Shoe whitening,Starch packets. The Enamel sign had never been used it was still wrapped up with the address label on it! so I removed the finger and mounted on a piece of wood and fitted a clock movement in it and now it hangs in our entrance porch. Roger ps all this drivel could do with being moved to a different thread(no technical) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 14 hours ago, oldtuckunder said: On the subject of valve lapping, a small £15 investment I hope will this time remove one of the constant frustrations! Hello Alan How are you going to use that collet and holder? in a drill press? This what you really want? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Valve-Lapping-Tool-Attachment-Automatic-drehrichtungswechsel-1738/192405727405?epid=2254443365&hash=item2ccc4668ad:g:TyMAAOSw9~5ZTiMw Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Your dubbin tin is definitely UK Army issue, from the 1950s: https://www.blancoandbull.com/boot-cleaning/british-forces-dubbin/ and 'collectable'! As is the Vaseline tin: http://www.dealers-uk.com/old-round-vaseline-tin Any copies of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Now they could be worth some money! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 2 hours ago, rogerguzzi said: Hello Alan How are you going to use that collet and holder? in a drill press? This what you really want? No those mechanical ones are far to harsh for a fine thin finish, and there is no feel with them. I came across a video the other day of someone using a holder and collet for hand lapping. As you know the wonderful wooden sticks with rubber suckers as soon as they get a smear of paste on then stop sticking to the valve head and you spend more time resticking and centering the tool than you do lapping. The idea with the collet is that you attach to the stem of the valve (the collet grips without marking the stem as a 3 jaw chuck would) and you lap as normal but from the opposite end of the valve using exactly the same spinning/lifting motion and you get exactly the same feel, but it doesn't fall off. Seemed a neat idea to me so thought I'd give it a whirl. The Holder and a set of 10 collets 1mm-10mm cost under £20 the lot, and will no doubt be pressed to many further uses! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, oldtuckunder said: No those mechanical ones are far to harsh for a fine thin finish, and there is no feel with them. I came across a video the other day of someone using a holder and collet for hand lapping. As you know the wonderful wooden sticks with rubber suckers as soon as they get a smear of paste on then stop sticking to the valve head and you spend more time resticking and centering the tool than you do lapping. The idea with the collet is that you attach to the stem of the valve (the collet grips without marking the stem as a 3 jaw chuck would) and you lap as normal but from the opposite end of the valve using exactly the same spinning/lifting motion and you get exactly the same feel, but it doesn't fall off. Seemed a neat idea to me so thought I'd give it a whirl. The Holder and a set of 10 collets 1mm-10mm cost under £20 the lot, and will no doubt be pressed to many further uses! Alan Hello Alan Re inventing the Wheel? I have these 2 one 5/16" and one 3/8" both made by Terry,s I have had these since my early motorcycle repairing days I have always lapped valves in by pulling them onto the seats and twisting back and forth then lift and turn 90 degs Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 Hello All The Mini valve stem seals have arrived but having looked at them I think I will use the VW ones. The VW ones are 2mm shorter and the seal is for an 8mm stem The mini ones I have have a much smaller stem hole (maybe 7mm or less 1/4"?) they do need less machined off the guide but by my measuring the groove that needs to be cut is just as deep if not more! (would be just as weak at that point) The VW ones need to be 10.5mm dia mini ones look more like 10mm dia plus they are slightly bigger o/d So I think I will just machine them to a nice radius at the end of the reduction Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hello All Happy New Year and may all your troubles be Triumph,d I have been having anther look at my valve guide seals and I find if I leave the guides at 0.750" above the head there is not enough space under the collar to get the 0.405" lift that the new camshaft will give and the valve at fully open is just 0.015" below the face of the head. I have found by machining a chamfer on the guide the seal sits slightly lower on the guide and if I fit the guide to 0.700" I can just get the 0.405" with a few thou to spare(just) So I thought I could I could just bullet nose the guide a bit more as I do not want to shorten the guide! What do we all think? Roger ps I also noticed the 1300 cc head has slightly smaller inlet port castings! but I think I can open them up to 1 1/4" dia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Hello All What a day!!!!! The good bit my new Newman TRIS/280/405 PH2 camshaft and Steel cam followers arrived today(I think I will mount it on a nice wooden plinth and put it on the mantle piece!) But them it went down hill! The Wife went to a Spa massage(birthday present) and then was going to meet her 94!!! year old mother in Solihull for lunch. So she arrived at the arranged time(12.30) at 13.15 I had a phone call had I heard from her mother? No I said So by 14.00 she made her way to her mothers no sign of her so by 16.30 she rings local A&E then the Police! By 17.30 I have let her brother know and our son and daughter. Then at about 17.50 she arrives home Kn****d and its dark and she has Macular degeneration! She had forgotten and lost track of time(the wife phoned her at 09.15 to remind her?)and thought they were meeting tomorrow? So its Wine o clock in our house! Roger ps Tomorrow has to be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Simpsons quote "if you don't start making more sense we are going to have to put you in a home" Apt maybe, but definitely not funny in this context. 94 and wandering around for at least half the day though.... must be in fairly decent shape! Hope today is better....... Nick PS. It won't do any good on your mantlepiece - you have to hide it away in your engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Simpsons quote "if you don't start making more sense we are going to have to put you in a home" Apt maybe, but definitely not funny in this context. 94 and wandering around for at least half the day though.... must be in fairly decent shape! Hope today is better....... Nick PS. It won't do any good on your mantlepiece - you have to hide it away in your engine Hello Nick Well perhaps just until I get the block and crank back? may put the shot peened conrods with it! Roger ps not run it past the Memsahib yet! I wonder what the reaction will be?(spare room again? if I am lucky!) Now this is Power? Edited January 11, 2018 by rogerguzzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Hello All Looks like the camshaft will not be displayed after all I had a call from the Engine machinist the block and crank will be ready tomorrow. So I suppose the serious work starts again(checking piston deck height before getting it all balanced) The new camshaft looks lumpy compared to a low power Triumph one! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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