Mark Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hi all. What 6-3-1 extractor manifold would you recommend for my MK2 Vitesse . Only aware of a couple available. Interested in best performance and not worried if mild steel or stainless steel. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Probably the TT/Moss one if really available. Only other available one AFAIK is the Pheonix and availability is it's main strong point..... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 Nick Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Craig can chime in here about the Phoenix manifold. He's fitted one to his GT6, and reported that access to some of the bolts was almost impossible. Also, the Phoenix manifold isn't equal length so although it is a 6-3-1, performance is likely to be compromised. My GT6 has a Gareth Thomas 6-3-1, but I don't think he's making them any more. Another idea is to make your own. You can make the head flanges out of 10mm steel, and buy various lengths of mandrel-bent pipe and collectors. If your welding isn't very good, you can measure, cut and tack-weld the sections together, and get a professional to finish them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 I checked and Moss do a mild steel manifold £439 for the manifold + £155 for the Y piece/collector in mild steel. Don't know enough about the design or any performance gains at this stage to justify the £600. I'll have to give them a call. Could look at getting one made of have a go myself, but ideally buy one of the shelf. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I was going to suggest checking this option out......... http://www.wbclassics.com/content/wbc-6-3-1-equal-length-exhaust-header-venturi-merge-collector-triumph-gt6 .........only it doesn't seem to be currently available. Not appreciated by everyone (!) http://www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,1268283,1268283#msg-1268283,though he's biased! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Hi Mark, hmmmm, best performance may be a wide field for discussion. I had the Phoenix one and changed to the Moss one. I´m happy with the Moss one. Other engine spec: FR89 Moss cam, triple Weber DCOE, ported head, balanced bottom, 10,7 CR. The engine runs sweet. Nice flat torque curve, 127 horses at 5,500 RPM, 170NM at 5.000 and 150 NM already at 2.500. The people at the dyno rejected to go further than 5.500 as the red area begins at the stock rev counter. However the engine pulls strong to more that 6.500. So there may be some additional horses in stock after 5.500. Best performance? I do not know, but its great fun to drive. Martin Edited August 5, 2015 by Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tiger Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Does anyone have current contact details for Gareth Thomas? I paid him for a 6-3-1 in June 2014 and have not received it. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. Out of the two that are available I would go for the Moss one. Just got to get used to the idea of spending £600. Presume this would also work on the 2.5 which I have waiting on the side lines for future development. I was about to buy a full cage for my MX5 for track day use, that may now have to wait. Got two weeks annual leave so steaming into the Vitesse at the moment. thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 mounting of the Moss one may be veeeeery tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Does anyone have current contact details for Gareth Thomas? I paid him for a 6-3-1 in June 2014 and have not received it. Chris Sorry I don't have his details. I was thinking of getting a price from him myself but was unsure if he still produced his manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 Nick Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Having just trial-fitted Gareth's primary pipes, I can see why it's so difficult to make equal length pipes that avoid the chassis, turret, steering column and inlet manifolds and are easy to fit. It's a proper 3D jigsaw puzzle. My chassis rail will require some tweaking, and the engine may have to be moved slightly to the left or tilted to the right - and even then it will be tight. If I were making some myself, I'd be tempted to buy one of these kits :http://hotrodenginetech.com/icengineworks-header-modeling-kits/ or http://www.icengineworks.com/ and make a Lego version first. Not cheap though - it's easy to see why a perfect manifold could easily cost $2000 and not make the manufacturer much profit. Edited August 6, 2015 by V8 Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP2.5 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I was going to suggest checking this option out......... http://www.wbclassics.com/content/wbc-6-3-1-equal-length-exhaust-header-venturi-merge-collector-triumph-gt6 .........only it doesn't seem to be currently available. Not appreciated by everyone (!) http://www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,1268283,1268283#msg-1268283,though he's biased! Nick Hello Nick, Followed your last link, interesting discussion about the birth of the 6-3-1 manifold. Would like to add that Chrysler did som work on 6-3-1 manifolds in the sixties. More "recent" 1968-82 MATRA used 6-3-1 manifolds on their 3 litre V12, they tryed 6-3-1 and 6-3 -3 exhaust pipes per bank- they also tryed 6-1 and 6-2-1. The final version of that V12 was claimed to have 530 HP+ and it had very beautiful 6-2-1 manifolds. What is so special with the Triumph six that it needs a 6-3-1 system to devolop it,s best? Or is it so that all others tuning six cylinder engines are ignorent in this respect? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) mounting of the Moss one may be veeeeery tight. I have a 'special' spanner, for that job alone, made by cutting off the closed end, so that there is enough room for a wider 'swing'. No room for the closed end on the nut and with the open end it's one flat at a time, turn the spanner around, one flat. Job I hate most. I then drilled a hole in the centre of the spanner handle, so that I could wire a length of tubing over it, not to increase the leverage, but to make it more comfortable, as you will need to really swing on that shortened spanned to achieve the desired 25 lb-ft of torque. Even then, you have to get the nut on the stud with the whole manifold loose on the head, as otherwise there is no room to do so - as shown in the picture by the scarring under that tube of the manifold. V8Nick, Even GT can't get the lengths the same - compare 1& 6 with 3&4! John Edited August 12, 2015 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Luis Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I have also a 6-3-1 mild steel manifold fitted to my TR6 and used at the tight areas an allen screw with a ball tip allen-screwdriver. As far as I remember I had to use it only at no. 6 exhaust port, all others were ok to tighten with standard studs and nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motov8id Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) this style wrench has helped me tighten hard to reach manifold bolts http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-point-supreme-Tools-1-2-9-16-ratcheting-open-end-wrench-RS1618-/111704236091 Edited August 18, 2015 by motov8id Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5piman Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Hello all, I find this style of socket (Crow's foot) very useful for this and other awkward access areas. Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Thanks for those ideas! I think I've tried a crowsfoot, without success, but I'll give it a go next time, Alec. That "ratcheted, open end wrench" (AKA, USA, spanner) looks weird - excuse me, but like the limb of someone who had thalidomide in their mother's pregnancy. Horrid. But if it works .... Are they right and left handed, or do you just flip the spanner over? That might be problem - as I said above, on my manifold is one flat at a time, and you need to flip the spanner to get it to reach the next flat. Found I already have some pics of the problem, lack of space to swing the spanner, and my solution, so see below. John Edited August 18, 2015 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteClan Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Loads of space there compared with an Imp combined manifold. You could try the same method I use. Change the standard nuts to 'K' nuts then use a 1/4 inch drive socket with a 'wobble' bar extension. Pete Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 If I were making some myself, I'd be tempted to buy one of these kits :http://hotrodenginetech.com/icengineworks-header-modeling-kits/ or http://www.icengineworks.com/ and make a Lego version first. Not cheap though - it's easy to see why a perfect manifold could easily cost $2000 and not make the manufacturer much profit. Problem is Nick, they don't make them in the 1 3/8 inch (35mm) size we need. Oh, hang onnn.... Perhaps we can solve that C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Luis Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Why don't you just use an allen screw with a ball tip wrench? I did that with my manifold and it was so easy to tighten the screw. You just need a piece of steel tube as extension to tight it with the needed torque. The only thing you need to take care is the length of the screw. If its to long you won't get it in. So you better buy a slightly longer screw/bolt and shorten it to fit. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I checked and Moss do a mild steel manifold £439 for the manifold + £155 for the Y piece/collector in mild steel. Don't know enough about the design or any performance gains at this stage to justify the £600. I'll have to give them a call. Could look at getting one made of have a go myself, but ideally buy one of the shelf. Thanks Mark Didn't spot this the first time around but £155 - for the collector?! Taking the piss! £ 439 is more than enough to include the collector on a mild steel manifold.... It already costs more than the stainless Pheonix one so difficult to justify IMO. One the great benefits of my EFI inlet manifold is really easy access to the bolts....... Otherwise the allen head bolts and ball-tip keys is a good trick. 3/8" drive socket set and wobble bar is good too. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Hi all Just toying with the idea of having a go at making my own manifold. Are the flanges available from anyone? Shouldn't be that difficult to cut some out of plate if necessary, but would be better if they where laser/water jet cut. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 Nick Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I don't think the flanges are available commercially. You're right though, it won't be hard to make them out of 10mm steel. A few hours with an angle grinder and believe me, you'll have flanges as good as many of the commercially made ones. One thing I've seen with good headers for Triumphs and other species - the primaries aren't just welded to the face of the flange, they are shaped to match the rectangular exhaust ports and inserted into the hole in the flange. I presume they're made like that to increase support for the pipes as the engine moves around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpeedy Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I've had a few sets of flanges laser profiled for when I made my manifold. I may have a set going spare. I think i did them in 6 or 8mm mild steel. Can't remember which, but they worked perfectly for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 I've had a few sets of flanges laser profiled for when I made my manifold. I may have a set going spare. I think i did them in 6 or 8mm mild steel. Can't remember which, but they worked perfectly for me. If you find you have a spare set you wish to sell let me know how much you want. thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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