JohnD Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) Gosh, Paul! Your son's first language Polish, with English at home? And he may do an MSc in German? Oh, my monoglot island! Curse my school for teaching dry, grammatical, written French and German, and double-damn them for wasting my time on Latin! I struggle to use the French with a little success in actually talking to people in La Belle France but it's very much 'Franglais'! John PS If like me you want practice a language, look for a Language Cafe near you! Edited July 7 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 John He's properly bilingual Polish-English, but Polish being his mother tongue gives it the slight edge. He studied German at school, but has been putting more time into at Uni. It seems that his 'quantum leap' came by watching German early evening soaps. Painful, but beneficial! I grew up on Anglesey and, in the 1970s, Welsh was a compulsory subject. Along with French and Latin, it was an unusual exposure to languages for a comprehensive school. I wasted the opportunity at the time, but it may have made the neuro connections to facilitate language absorbtion later in life. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Learning two languages from the cradle (or at least from very young) is said to change the way language is learned and stored, making it easier to learn more in the future. And some seem to be better wired for it than others…. I’m sure I’ve mentioned my polyglot Swiss cousins before. Astonishing to me and a wonderful advantage in the world - especially combined with EU citizenship…… The internship at GE Energy sounds like a great opportunity (well done him!) and, dare I say it, more useful to the world and more likely to provide a lifelong career than aviation. Though obviously aviation appears more exciting and glamorous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Ah, Welsh! "For I am Welsh you know!" (Henry5). Moses, my great-great grandfather, born in Devynnock, lived in Merthyr Tydvil, was a great choirmaster in his spare time (He's in the Dictionary of Welsh Biography!) His Welsh speaking son, David moved to be a sculptor in London, but at that time Welsh was a second-class language, my grandfather never learnt and my father was born hearing Bow Bells, so a Cockney! If I lived anywhere Welsh was spoken I would try to learn that, but it's the French who must suffer. And no, Latin was absolutely no advantage to a medical career! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Learning two languages from the cradle (or at least from very young) is said to change the way language is learned and stored, making it easier to learn more in the future. Oddly enough, it didn't seem to give our two any particular advantage - both have struggled with third languages. Until now, since said third language has a purpose. When they were very young, every Tom Dick with an opinion advised against talking to them in two languages. It will just confuse them and retard their language development, apparently. We ignored that and practically from the age they could speak, they switched between languages to address the parent whose attention/help/sympathy was required, deftly and seamlessly. Or, more correctly, to speak to one parent in the belief that the other wouldn't understand. A tactic they continued vainly into adulthood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 14 minutes ago, PaulAA said: When they were very young, every Tom Dick with an opinion advised against talking to them in two languages. It will just confuse them and retard their language development, apparently. We ignored that and practically from the age they could speak, they switched between languages to address the parent whose attention/help/sympathy was required, deftly and seamlessly. Or, more correctly, to speak to one parent in the belief that the other wouldn't understand. A tactic they continued vainly into adulthood... The best way to learn a language really it seems given the evidence. And chapeau for their linguistic skills and your persistence. 4 hours ago, JohnD said: Oh, my monoglot island! The problem when you speak the dominant language in the world is essentially which 'minority' (that is in no way meant to be derrogatory) language do you choose? Unless you have a specific reason then it is as likely to be the 'wrong' one as not. And for most of us I suspect trying to learn a language in the abstract is particularly challenging. Much easier when there is a definite purpose. One of my friend's younger sons was much taken with Japan having read 'Shogun' as a child. As a result he started learning Japanese from a relatively young age and obviously independently from the school system intially at least. Having graduated from University he is just this year off to Japan to teach English for a couple of years. Seriously impressive. 4 hours ago, PaulAA said: I grew up on Anglesey and, in the 1970s, Welsh was a compulsory subject. Along with French and Latin, it was an unusual exposure to languages for a comprehensive school. I wasted the opportunity at the time, but it may have made the neuro connections to facilitate language absorbtion later in life. Same here from 1970 to 1972. Caergeiliog primary and then on Holyhead High (a thoroughly grim place Holyhead was and still is) Welsh was compulsory at the high school but as we were moving back to Scotland my dad got me out of the class as it was somewhat a waste of time. To be honest and perhaps a reflection on me I don't consider an inability to speak Welsh beyond being able to pronounce place names reasonably well to be a missed opportunity as we (RAF kids) were treated very much as outsiders by the locals and while we shared the classes with native Welsh speakers I don't recall any mixing between the two groups. I do my very inadequate best with French, German and Spanish but there is nothing like being in-place to help in this respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 39 minutes ago, PaulAA said: When they were very young, every Tom Dick with an opinion advised against talking to them in two languages. It will just confuse them and retard their language development, apparently. We ignored that and practically from the age they could speak, they switched between languages to address the parent whose attention/help/sympathy was required, deftly and seamlessly. Yeah…. This was the line taken by my aunt and uncle. I can remember going there when they were small and, having been given bedtime story duty, being presented with a succession of German language books. They (or the younger two anyway) were non-plussed by my pleading for an English one. Conversing with the youngest was challenging as he was continually mixing English and Swiss- German and oblivious to it….. caused minor problems with his German speaking friends too apparently. He speaks 5 languages now. 3 like a native. Currently living in Canada, so mainly operating in their versions of English and French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I think it's less speaking two(or more) languages from infancy makes it easier to learn another, more that it is obvious that it is possible. Here on this benighted island, 'foreign' languages are not worth learning, 'cos we speak proper! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: Caergeiliog primary and then on Holyhead High (a thoroughly grim place Holyhead was and still is) My father (a rep for Whitbread) was moved to North Wales and Anglesey seemed the least grim option, apparently. We moved to Benllech when I was four and Lemmy was leaving, and stayed there until I was 16. I've been back twice since and marvelled at how such a remote outpost of civilisation could have been home. I went to Amlwch comprehensive, which was as ghastly as Holyhead - designed as an emergency hospital in the first howls of the Cold War in the mid-'50s. When we arrived in Benllech in 1968, the children of the neightbours on both sides, boys of my age, couldn't speak English. 1 hour ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: And for most of us I suspect trying to learn a language in the abstract is particularly challenging. Much easier when there is a definite purpose. Absolutely. I forgot my Welsh within a couple of years of leaving the place and then learnt first German and, more recently, Polish as location demanded. Given that I started learning Polish in earnest only in my late 30s, and it is now reasonably serviceable, necessity is undoubtedly the key. However, surveying the other long-term foreigners here, and their varying degrees of fluency (or lack thereof), I regret to say that the British excel themselves the least. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 ... and it looks like the French have woken up to the danger and voted centre-left, if the exit polls are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 My Silly thoughts (too many posts above to digest thoroughly). In the big cities (especially London) the ID is essential. Many Asians have more faces than Janus. Vote rigging etc etc. I hope the ID will slow it down. Labour did not win. They came first by a very big margin. Conservatives did lose big time. They paid the price for lying, cheating, lack of effort, and simply being total sh*t. It appeared during the election that they actually wanted to lose. Liberals did well - not because they deserved it but because they were simply an alternative to the Conservatives. Farage did well because Clacton like a bit of Punch & Judy - the House of Commons should be fun this coming session. Basically the total failure of one party raised all the other parties Roger 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Ecosse Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 11 hours ago, PaulAA said: I regret to say that the British excel themselves the least. my admitedly fairly limited experience of Brits abroad in the expat sense makes me cringe on that score. Regards the election results, it seems perhaps both UK wide in here in Scotland that a decent proportion ofthe voting public feel that competence in government is an important consideration. Will be very interesting to hear what Reeves has to say about the economy as we are basically f'kd right now and it is about the most important issue there is since everything else hangs on it. 11 hours ago, PaulAA said: ... and it looks like the French have woken up to the danger and voted centre-left, if the exit polls are correct. That was a surprise. Welcome indeed. Going to be some job though to stitch a government together from it all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulAA Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, RogerH said: Many Asians have more faces than Janus This country has a long association with Vietnam, stretching back fifty years. No prizes for guessing why. However, after 'the change' in 1989, there was a cooling of the relationship and the free-flow of visitor exchange was stemmed. In those pre-electronic surveillance days, the solution was that legitimate Vietnamese holders of Polish visas would either post their passport back to Vietnam once they arrived in PL, or have it added to the diplomatic bag, to enable relatives (or complete strangers) to enter Poland. After all, border guards were not employed for their ethnographic perceptiveness... 2 hours ago, RogerH said: Farage did well because Clacton like a bit of Punch & Judy - the House of Commons should be fun this coming session. But I can't help savouring the irony of Farage bellyaching about the UK voting system when it doesn't go his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 But I can't help savouring the irony of Farage bellyaching about the UK voting system when it doesn't go his way. But, again, it didn't really go his way. His party got as monster amount of votes (compared to labour) with only 4 seats as a result. I like first passed the post system but it has many issues. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Paul AA said of his son's German, "It seems that his 'quantum leap' came by watching German early evening soaps." I tried to watch the "Spiral" ("Engrenages"), French police -procedural series on TV without the subtitles. But the dialogue was so colloquial, so Parisian that it didn't get me any further! Recommended though, if you like 'noir'. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 45 minutes ago, JohnD said: I tried to watch the "Spiral" ("Engrenages"), French police -procedural series on TV without the subtitles. But the dialogue was so colloquial, so Parisian that it didn't get me any further! I would rather suspect that a Parisian who speaks English might well have a similar outcome if he tries watching say "River City", or indeed any of the other Scottish drama/soap offerings! "It might be English, M'Lud, but it sure ain't any English I understand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 2 minutes ago, thebrookster said: It might be English, M'Lud, but it sure ain't any English I understand" Have the same issue with a couple of the old boys in the village. You may think the “translator” line in Hot Fuzz is taking the piss…. And it is….. but only a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Absolutely true! Many years ago, we worked at the Royal Devon & Exeter Hospital, my luvvers. Old boy in the ICU was apparently raving, pointing and shouting. We told his family, sadly, that his illness had precipitated dementia and that recovery was unlikely. "Dementia? Bollocks! He wants his glasses to see that clock on wall, and his hearing aid so he can understand what you say!" John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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