Marks Vitesse

[PeteStupps]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:39 PM, Nick Jones said:

Door mirrors are the way if you actually want to see what is behind you. Never understood the “appeal” of wing mirrors.

Me neither. Wondered if the idea was that they are more in your line of vision than door mirrors...?

Mark you've reminded me I need to get some convex glass in my door mirrors, they're pretty useless with flat.

On 12/23/2019 at 7:10 PM, Mark said:

Another thing that I wanted to try and improve was the gauge illumination. Needing reading glasses, I was finding it harder to read the gauges at night, especially temp, oil pressure. Today I replaced the yellow dull bulbs with some E10 987 LED items. Slightly better, whiter light, but not as bright as I had hoped.

Appreciate any suggestions of how I can increase the brightness further.

Egg-sucking question maybe but have you got an instrument dimmer in the circuit? You could try bypassing that if so, negate a little bit of volt drop. I think some LED bulbs are significantly better than others, but don't know which suppliers are your best bet. 

[yorkshire_spam]

Without wishing to be controversial I quite like the wing mirrors on the Dolomite and I don't find them significantly worse or better than the door mirrors on the Spitfire.

 

[Mark]

Hi all

Been out and about in the Vitesse going well, and as mentioned bought an old school Selmar alarm that I am attempting to fit to the car. I fitted a similar Selmar to a Mk3 Spit in the early eighties and wanted something basic. Can't remember having any issues fitting the last one but for some reason can't quite get my head around wiring up the door switches to the alarm. Diagram indicates a wire from the door switch going to one terminal on the alarm, and says if you wish to add additional switches join them together and run one wire to the alarm. Cant find my Vitesse Haynes manual for the wiring diagram, but the wire to the door switches are purple with a white stripe. This wire is live and the switch is earthed completing the circuit when the door is opened, interior light comes on. If I connect a test bulb to the live on the door and touch it to earth the light illuminates, but if I earth the door switch the test bulb goes out and the interior light comes on? If I join the lives going to the door switches to a common wire going to the alarm, I cant think how the  Alarm works, I know its something obvious but cant get it straight in my mind?

In the meantime I have been fitting switches to the boot and bonnet. Space on the bulk head is limited, and the only available space was being saved for a servo that I have, so decided to fit it inside the boot. Its a pendulum  type,  so thought as long as its central should work in either the back or front of the car. Only downside is running and routing wires to the back of the car.

Mark

[Nick Jones]

Nice brackets 

[richy_rich]

13 hours ago, Mark said:

If I join the lives going to the door switches to a common wire going to the alarm, I cant think how the  Alarm works, I know its something obvious but cant get it straight in my mind?

From the description you gave, it sounds like you run the same live to all the switches in parallel and earth the other terminal of the switches, that way any switch that closes will set off the alarm.  Kind of like this?

[Mark]

Hi Richy

Great! That's excellent. Just couldn't visualise it. Kept getting a mental block. That makes it crystal clear.

Thanks!

[Mark]

Hi all

Taken longer than I thought, but got the Selmar alarm wired and mostly working. Big issue was its location, and routing wires to the rear. Very hot working inside the car with the soft top up, which hasn't helped but needed to get inside the rear wing.

I've got a wireless switch that will be replacing the key switch, but to test it I just joined the two switch wire. 

Initially the alarm just kept clicking when switched on,  no horns sounding. Wiring seemed ok. I have an Fia type isolator/cut out, but the alarm is wired directly to the battery before the cut out. But with the cut out switched on the alarm works.

Seems the alarm senses the break in the live supply, not sure if it's to the horn wire or courtesy wiring, baffled at the moment, wan to keep the cut out. 

I was going to fit a fused link wire across the cut out terminals so that the live isn't completely broken but will blow if the started is engaged, but then again the alarm would stop. Any suggestions?

Another question is the cut out has an anti run on resistor that I think earths any residual power from the alternator, and wether fitting a link fuse will effect the anti run on function.

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[richy_rich]

9 hours ago, Mark said:

I have an Fia type isolator/cut out, but the alarm is wired directly to the battery before the cut out. But with the cut out switched on the alarm works.

Probably your horn will be wired into the non ignition switched live side of things (starts with the big brown wires usually) cut by your cutoff switch.  The clicking will doubtless be a relay earthing the horn circuit, but as it has no power nothing is happening.

10 hours ago, Mark said:

Another question is the cut out has an anti run on resistor that I think earths any residual power from the alternator, and wether fitting a link fuse will effect the anti run on function.

I can't easily think of a way to do this bypass without either the cutout switch no longer working as advertised, the fuse blowing or the resistor melting   When the cutout switch is 'off' the 'live' side of the circuit is earthed through the resistor by design.   

Assuming you have it wired in like the diagram below, 'W or 1' will be closed when the switch is off, if you connect +12v anywhere on the right hand side of the diagram, it'll all earth through the resistor, if you bypass directly between battery + and Z (the ignition coil in this diagram) the car will just keep running until the battery goes flat, plus the alternator will still be producing current which will be earthing through (temporarily until it goes up in smoke) your resistor. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding?

[Mark]

Hi Richy

Thanks for the explanation.  I am sure I wired the cut out as per your diagram, so will forget the link wire. 

The clicking is from the alarm, which happens when I arm the alarm with the cut out operated. Like you say must be to do with the non ignition switched live side, which the cut out isolates.

Out of the two I think I'd prefer to keep the cut out, so looks like I may have to forget the alarm idea, which is a shame.

Extra courtesy light switches fitted, may now be used for boot and under bonnet lights so not a total waste of time.

Thanks

Mark

Edited June 26, 2020 by Mark

[thebrookster]

Why not just make the horn permanent live as well then, and power it from the alarm power supply?

Everything else goes through the cutout, and alarm system still works. You could even put it through a relay, so it only powers on when the alarm is activated, and have it as a separate circuit in addition to normal horn circuit.

Or am I missing something glaringly obvious here?

Cheers,

Phil

[richy_rich]

39 minutes ago, thebrookster said:

Why not just make the horn permanent live as well then, and power it from the alarm power supply?

Everything else goes through the cutout, and alarm system still works. You could even put it through a relay, so it only powers on when the alarm is activated, and have it as a separate circuit in addition to normal horn circuit.

You could do that, as long as you isolated the horn from the rest of the live circuitry.  It might be easier to get a cheap 12v plastic horn thing and an inline fuse and have a dedicated 'alarm' horn, just wired to the battery, alarm and earth?

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, richy_rich said:

It might be easier to get a cheap 12v plastic horn thing and an inline fuse and have a dedicated 'alarm' horn, just wired to the battery, alarm and earth?

This.......  The Triumph horn circuitry has enough personality already!

[Mark]

Thanks all

I was having the same thought (Honestly) and have found an old separate horn to try out. My only thought is I am not sure if it is the break in the live horn or live courtesy wiring that is causing the alarm problems.I will give it a go this afternoon. Thanks.

Mark

[Mark]

Hi all

This turned into a bit of a mission.

Couldn't get the alarm to work by wiring in a separate horn. Problem was a combination of courtesy light and horn wiring, in conjunction with the FIA kill switch which I couldn't get to the bottom of. Ended up adding additional independent door switches, siren and live direct to battery, so not effected by the kill switch. Connected the switch wires from the alarm and it works.

Next problem was trying to get the wireless switch to work. The wireless switch needs a live but so does the alarm. Initially I thought because the on/of switch wire from the alarm connects to the live inside the alarm, I could remove the direct live from the battery to the alarm and connect it to the positive side of the wireless switch, and an earth from the car body to the negative of the wireless switch, thinking that when the switch was activated it would send power through the load connections on the wireless switch, to the live terminal of the alarm. The wireless switch activated with the key fob , with a click, but the alarm wont work. A test bulb showed power was switching on and off at the live contact at the alarm, but wouldn't sound.

I then wired the live from the battery directly to the alarm, taking a live feed from the same wire, to power the wireless switch. Again the wireless switch works, but the alarm wouldn't sound.

Today I wired the wireless switch Pos/Neg to a spare motorcycle battery, and had the alarm powered separately from the car battery. Connecting the alarm switch wires to the wireless switch, and it worked? Well the door/boot/bonnet all set the siren off, but for some reason the pendulum, activated by movement wouldn't set the alarm off.

Just to do my brain in a bit more I added an LED light connected to the wireless switch using the same terminals as the alarm switch wires. When the alarm was activated with everything close the LED flashed so I had a way to see it was armed. Alarm activate when door opend deactivate the alarm with the key fob, and  LED stopped. This was until I opened a door with the alarm off, the LED still flashes. So as it stands, If I was to use the key switched supplied, everything will  work as it should. Trying to add a wireless switch may just be a bit to much for my brain to work out. I have a feeling it could be the 60's alarm electrics with mini coils and contact switches, not cooperating with today's electronics, or more likely I am missing something. Photo shows  wireless switch powered by bike battery, red/black from the left, and the alarm switch wires going out the top of the photo. LED wires, red on right,  earth on left.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Mark

[Mark]

Been thinking of moving the speakers from the under the dash panels I initially made as I was losing sound quality confirmed when I removed them to fit the door switches to the alarm. I briefly held one speaker in a similar position it would be if fitted to the door. Sound really came to life sharpness of base and treble , was just chalk and cheese, sounded like I had taken the speakers out from the cupboard. 

So had a break from trying  to sort the alarm wireless switch and made up a couple of pods out of fiberglass to seal the back of the speakers , protecting them from the rain and elements, inside of the doors. Pods fit from the front sealing the edge against the door. Sound much better.

Gave up on the wireless switch for now, and fitted the original key switch. Didn't really want to drill a hole in the wing so fitted it discretely. All the functions of the alarm work great, not as easy to arm and disarm as a wireless fob,  but it works,  exactly as the one on my Spitfire did 30 odd years ago.

[Mark]

Hi all

As mentioned earlier, I couldn't live with exhaust noise, just to loud for me, perfect if I was 18 again. With my 6-3-1 manifold and long secondaries joining at the diff there was no room for an extra silencer. I cut the secondaries back close to the end of the gearbox, made up another merge collector, 2.25 straight pipe into a 3.5" bomb type silencer, then to the back box. Result is much better, still throaty when pushed, but I think I can live with it. Before I was holding back the right foot because it was so loud. Straight away the car feels quicker, possibly due to the slightly shorter secondaries, but more probably because I am happier to rev the car. Pulls really well, and hopefully quiet enough to take to the odd track day.

 

[Nick Jones]

Nice fabrication there  

There might be some more silencing to be had by looking inside that Canleys back box. If the person who built it used as much tape as the one who built mine, it will doing much the same as a straight pipe.

[Mark]

Took the Vitesse out for a run the other day. As I was about to join the A20, with the next exit being a few miles up the road, the car misfired. A proper jolt type of misfire as if the ignition was briefly cut. Managed to do a U Turn, taking the back roads home. Another misfire on route with the thoughts of breaking down on new Years Eve and waiting for recovery on my mind. Got home with know other misfire.

The car has ran faultlessly since its return to the road, apart from a sudden cut out whilst waiting at some lights, it started after a few attempts, and the fault was with the New FIA type cut out I have fitted. When I wobbled the terminals on the back of the switch the engine would stutter and die. I did fix it, by replacing the riveted body, which was being forced apart by an internal spring, with nuts and bolts.

Just to rule out any possible future problems I replaced it with a new one. So when the car started to play up the other day, my first thoughts were the new switch could be faulty. After wobbling and tugging on all the wires on the FIA swtch and ignition, I couldn't get the car to misfire of die, so still looking for the cause of the fault.

Still running points so need to give everything a close look. These type of faults are a PITA. 

[Nick Jones]

Rotor arm….. though you’d probably have been walking…….

looking again at the way your exhaust secondaries hug the sump, do you get high oil temperatures?

[Mark]

Engine oil temp has always been around the early 80 degree c's even after a bit of motorway and A road thrashing. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mark

[Mark]

Along side the sudden desire for the engine to feel like it was about to die, I have been having more difficulty in starting the car if left for a few days, so started to think the faults were probably related. I bought new rotor arm, cap, leads, points and condenser, replacing one item at a time, took the car for a run, and it ran great each time, so was unable to identify the original fault. With everything replaced the car was left for a few days, and again was a real pig to start. A squirt of Easy Start had it firing up straight away, so started looking at the fuel system more closely. I found the jets on the Hs6 carbs were only dropping down about a quarter of an inch with the choke knob fully out. Operated direct on the carbs there was another quarter inch travel,  fully open the car fired up immediately,  so cold starting problem identified.

There has always been to much effort needed to pull the choke on triumphs I have owned, and seen a few of the the later knobs with the T snapped off. I made up a longer leaver to fit to the center of the rod that actuates the jets. I was hoping that the extra leverage would mean less effort pulling the choke knob. It does make a big difference, but still pretty hard to pull. The problem, which I new all along is the solid inner cable binding in the outer as it curves towards the carbs. Unattached in a straight line the choke knob glides with ease. Same problem with the heater cable. I may modify the choke knob to take a bike brake cable, which wont be affected by the route the cable needs to take. Wouldn't work on the heater as it needs to be a solid wire to push as well as pull the heater valve. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Mark

[Mark]

The vitesse currently has a slightly decambered rear transverse spring, spax shocks with chassis extensions. Rotoflex was replaced with sliding splines. The Spax shocks have done the rounds last fitted to a modified spitfire. On my own with the shocks set to zero every thing feels fine. Once or twice with four adults on board leaves the shocks with about 1/4" of travel, so if you hit a bump you feel it. Need to research best open and closed lengths for the Vitesse. What's your thoughts on the original lever arms?. Still got them, and the bump stops somewhere, and for road use may be an option?

[Nick Jones]

Four adults in a Vitesse?!  There’s your problem!
 

Bagsy me NOT sitting in the back….

ISTR the damper that Koni do for the front of Minis is the one. Just needs the bottom bush sleeve drilling out a bit.

[Mark]

26 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Four adults in a Vitesse?!  There’s your problem!

Yes only happened on a couple of occassions, don't get many grown up volunteers. Thanks for the info on the mini shock, pretty pricey for konis, but I've only ever heard good things about them.

I did think about ditching the shock extension bracket, and attaching the standard length Spit/Herald rear shock to the chassis mounting position, no rotoflex, just prefered the nearer vertical position. Thought this should work. I removed the top of the shock from the chassis extensions, and swung it over to the chassis mounting point,  but there didnt appear to be any change in shock length, so guessed I needed a none standard open/closed length shock. Maybe the Rotoflex hub/V link shock mounting point is in a different position to the Mk1 Vit/Herald. 

[Nick Jones]

I’ve run OE pattern Armstrong shocks with chassis extension brackets on mine for decades. They work fine. I’ve can’t think of many (or even any) incidences when I’ve had for full size adults in it, but did take it to Switzerland with two medium size kids and the boot stuffed with luggage without issue. If anything it rides and handles best when well loaded.

Something to consider is that not all standard pattern shocks actually have the same/correct open and closed lengths so possibly the closed length of the Spaxes is a bit long. Doesn’t take very much.  I’m not a Spax fan TBH. Konis seem to damp much better and still manage to ride better.