If you couldn't drive a classic . . . . .

[Janner]

Following on from the "Conflicted" thread, the qestion is;

If you couldn't own and drive a classic, what would you drive?

Me; I've gone for an SL500

Darren; adrenaline junkie that he is, has gone for the Aerial Atom.

 

So, come on, imagine your worst nightmare, NO classic, whadaya goana drive?

 

John

[SDerbyshire]

Good question John!

hmm, i’d want something that was fun and fast but also capable of being relaxed, nice but not too showy

i’d be tempted to say 911, as i do think that’s the best allrounder

to mix things up i’d ideally have a modern recreation of a classic 911, ie a Singer or similar :-)

steve

[RedRooster]

Defender 90 :-)

[IainR]

1 hour ago, RedRooster said:

Defender 90 :-)

Hmm give the type of construction and the general panels and doors fit like a demob suit approach... I rather think you may have a made a 'sideways' move when answering the question.:)

[PeterC]

Mine would be electric, powered by solar panels on the house or grid in winter. Preferably 4WD with regenerative braking.And cheap. That means most likely Chinese manufactured.

Yes, I'm with Extinction Revolution and Attenborough: ditching fossil fuels has to happen soon. Battery technology is forging ahead and cities will be able to ban i/c engines as soon as e-vehicles are an adequate alternative. Then its a rapid downward spiral for fossil fuels. And classics will become a conspicuous relic of the age of i/c engines: Irresponsible combustion engines. And banned from the roads.

Peter

 

 

 

[Janner]

7 hours ago, SDerbyshire said:

Good question John!

hmm, i’d want something that was fun and fast but also capable of being relaxed, nice but not too showy

i’d be tempted to say 911, as i do think that’s the best allrounder

to mix things up i’d ideally have a modern recreation of a classic 911, ie a Singer or similar :-)

steve

 

A 911 would definitely supply the speed junkie his adrenaline rush, better than my Boxster, which I thought was lacking in soul.

[Janner]

7 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Defender 90 :-)

 

Won't be long before the Defender is a classic, enough of them are being nicked to prove it's value

[Janner]

2 hours ago, PeterC said:

Mine would be electric, powered by solar panels on the house or grid in winter. Preferably 4WD with regenerative braking.And cheap. That means most likely Chinese manufactured.

Yes, I'm with Extinction Revolution and Attenborough: ditching fossil fuels has to happen soon. Battery technology is forging ahead and cities will be able to ban i/c engines as soon as e-vehicles are an adequate alternative. Then its a rapid downward spiral for fossil fuels. And classics will become a conspicuous relic of the age of i/c engines: Irresponsible combustion engines. And banned from the roads.

Peter

 

 

 

Peter

Hi

Knowing you I should have seen this coming, but, somehow, you still manage to surprise.

Battery technology is improving every day, that's for sure, but, what about the manufacture and disposal of said battery?

If you use the grid, the advantage leaks away to a great degree . . . . . . doesn't it?

If I had to have an electric car tomorrow, then it would have to be a Tesla; a Model S or a Roadster

 

TBH, I'm still really sceptical about the uncontrolled drive to battery cars.

I still feel that hydrogen cell, given the same political push, is a better alternative.

It's not beyond the wit of man to make a pressure vessel to hold the hydrogen.

Refueling I know is a problem, but, not much worse than finding a battery charger when you need one and again, with the political support, hydrogen could be readily available.

I know finding/refining the hydrogen is a big issue, but, again . . .the wit of man and the will of the governing class etc etc.

I guess there are more political €/£/$ in battery cars than in hydrogen cell cars.  It's profit driving the choice.

[PeterC]

4 minutes ago, Janner said:

Peter

Hi

Knowing you I should have seen this coming, but, somehow, you still manage to surprise.

Battery technology is improving every day, that's for sure, but, what about the manufacture and disposal of said battery?

If you use the grid, the advantage leaks away to a great degree . . . . . . doesn't it?

If I had to have an electric car tomorrow, then it would have to be a Tesla; a Model S or a Roadster

 

TBH, I'm still really sceptical about the uncontrolled drive to battery cars.

I still feel that hydrogen cell, given the same political push, is a better alternative.

It's not beyond the wit of man to make a pressure vessel to hold the hydrogen.

Refueling I know is a problem, but, not much worse than finding a battery charger when you need one and again, with the political support, hydrogen could be readily available.

I know finding/refining the hydrogen is a big issue, but, again . . .the wit of man and the will of the governing class etc etc.

I guess there are more political €/£/$ in battery cars than in hydrogen cell cars.  It's profit driving the choice.

HI John,   There is indeed a mountain to climb but the profits from inventing the "best" battery wil be humungous. Recycling lithium batteries is ar present an obstacle, but sodium based chemistries are being explored. Grid-scale batteries based upon water electrolytes, where energy density is not important, are feasible now. So grid balancing issues can be overcome, at  a cost. Hydrogen may have a place in heavy vehicles, where storage and refuelling facilites are overseen. But for cars, I think the safety risks from hydrogen exceed that of batteries ( whcih are also a concern...all that energy ready to be discharged instantly in a short-circuit). Where hydrogen would win is in fast charging, where  the availability of a MW charging point will only be for the untra-rich.

Hydrogen can be made by heatng methane in a heated reactor  where carbon floats to the surface and hydrogen gas can be collected. Whether that can be made portable for eg ships I dont know. But methane is easier to store liquid than hydrogen. A ship powered by hydrogen derived from methane might soon be feasible, and very green.

I shant be jumping into ecars ina hurry. My reel to reel tape deck was made redundant within a year or so as cassettes came in, and when I caught up with those CDs arrived. ..I;m by natire a very late adopter, too late usually.

Peter

[spitfire6]

My Spit was ALL electric once. The railway track knocked out the dodgy connection on fuel pump relay.

Around 1500M/Hr. Peak distance around 20000CM's.

I didn't want to wear out my starter-motor, battery & cables. I didn't want to pause on a rail crossing.

Have done it on previous SM's.

Cheers,

Iain.

[PaulAA]

John

This is a subject currently under consideration, but without an obvious answer...

What I really, really want is a modern take on a Scimitar GTE / Jensen Healey GT / Volvo 1800ES.  Nobody produces a sexy three-door estate with a bit of go any more.  In fact, nobody produces a three-door worthy of a second glance.  Period.  All the 'shooting brake' nonsense leads to is compromised, ungainly and unaffordable estate conversions of cars that looked far better as saloons.

So, I'm stuck.  My current Audi A6 Avant is a fabulously accomplished car and ludicrously quick, but... it's automatic and it is pretty well soulless.  Clinically efficient, as it were.

My itch is therefore to find a naughty toy - a late model S5 V8 manual, which seems to be the best way to have affordable fun with a V8 in style.

Paul

[IainR]

19 hours ago, PeterC said:

Hydrogen can be made by heatng methane in a heated reactor  where carbon floats to the surface and hydrogen gas can be collected. Whether that can be made portable for eg ships I dont know. But methane is easier to store liquid than hydrogen. A ship powered by hydrogen derived from methane might soon be feasible, and very green.

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty familiar with steam reforming to produce Hydrogen having worked for Air Products in times past and more specifically testing the control and safety systems during insurance shutdowns etc. The first thing is that reformers are BIG pieces of kit, which also benefit tremendously from having something like an Ammonia plant hanging off the end of them. Whether you could scale that down to level where all the components could even fit into something as big as a large ships engine/utilities space is a moot point. You'd need LNG storage onboard, and if you already have LNG onboard why not burn it directly in a duel fuel Diesel engine which will also give many emissions benefits over direct diesel though you won't get quite the same amount of power and the engine once on gas is not as responsive to swings in power demand. Though that shouldn't be too much of an issue with a ship. Then there is the need for high pressure steam generation, the steam needs to be around 1000 degc. Not a sure term solution I suspect though to be frank I've no idea how far down this road designers have gone. There are however several ships lined up to be built with LNG as the primary fuel source and in production now. Which although obviously still hydrocarbon do have a much lower environmental footprint than burning heavy fuel oil for instance.

[Janner]

10 hours ago, PaulAA said:

John

This is a subject currently under consideration, but without an obvious answer...

What I really, really want is a modern take on a Scimitar GTE / Jensen Healey GT / Volvo 1800ES.  Nobody produces a sexy three-door estate with a bit of go any more.  In fact, nobody produces a three-door worthy of a second glance.  Period.  All the 'shooting brake' nonsense leads to is compromised, ungainly and unaffordable estate conversions of cars that looked far better as saloons.

So, I'm stuck.  My current Audi A6 Avant is a fabulously accomplished car and ludicrously quick, but... it's automatic and it is pretty well soulless.  Clinically efficient, as it were.

My itch is therefore to find a naughty toy - a late model S5 V8 manual, which seems to be the best way to have affordable fun with a V8 in style.

Paul

Paul

Scimitar or an Interceptor would be great!

Yours is a point I have not given any thought to; modern alternatives to these lovely 3 door cars.

My 1st thought was BMW, but, that's clinical and a BMW, fast, but, you pay a fortune for the badge

Let me get back to you

John

[zetecspit]

I would have another MX5 at the drop of a hat. In fact, Gill wants one so it may happen in the nearish future. However, I have a hankering for a Porsche (choices limited by budget, but a 996 is a possibility and as near to a "proper" 911 as I am likely to get)downside is the bills could scare me off....

Otherwise, I am unbothered about my everyday hack. So the soul-less Toyota I drove for a few years was fine by me, and the (elderly/partly immobile parent-friendly) grand c-max is a pleasant enough car. I even like the pug 107 we have on the drive......  I probably won't struggle too much as dino-powered cars disappear in the future (I reckon they will be about when I am old and doddery anyway, it won't happen fast)

My weekend cars are to enjoy. But in reality it is what I do with them that is more important than the actual car. 

[Nick Jones]

So define classic and the parameters for the alternative?  The youngest car I usually drive is nearing 23 years old and the youngest in the family fleet is 15...….  Classics or merely old bangers.  Wouldn't mind an Audi S6 (old C4 shape so at least 22 years old) but hardly a modern and arguably a classic itself.

I can't think of anything under 5 years old I want to own.  Would like to try a Tesla if someone else was paying...….

[PaulAA]

10 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

So define classic and the parameters for the alternative?  The youngest car I usually drive is nearing 23 years old and the youngest in the family fleet is 15...….  Classics or merely old bangers.  Wouldn't mind an Audi S6 (old C4 shape so at least 22 years old) but hardly a modern and arguably a classic itself.

I can't think of anything under 5 years old I want to own.  Would like to try a Tesla if someone else was paying...….

Hmmm... I was going to suggest that the definition is 'something that you can rely on to get you home through cold, shitty weather in a degree of comfort', but that would mean that The Boss' Jeep is, by default, a classic.  Which it is not.

It's not failsafe, but you could define 'classic' as a vehicle unburdened by electronics.  I know, I know - Austin Allegro, Morris Marina.  Consider them to be the exceptions that prove the rule.

Paul

[PeterC]

9 hours ago, IainR said:

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty familiar with steam reforming to produce Hydrogen having worked for Air Products in times past and more specifically testing the control and safety systems during insurance shutdowns etc. The first thing is that reformers are BIG pieces of kit, which also benefit tremendously from having something like an Ammonia plant hanging off the end of them. Whether you could scale that down to level where all the components could even fit into something as big as a large ships engine/utilities space is a moot point. You'd need LNG storage onboard, and if you already have LNG onboard why not burn it directly in a duel fuel Diesel engine which will also give many emissions benefits over direct diesel though you won't get quite the same amount of power and the engine once on gas is not as responsive to swings in power demand. Though that shouldn't be too much of an issue with a ship. Then there is the need for high pressure steam generation, the steam needs to be around 1000 degc. Not a sure term solution I suspect though to be frank I've no idea how far down this road designers have gone. There are however several ships lined up to be built with LNG as the primary fuel source and in production now. Which although obviously still hydrocarbon do have a much lower environmental footprint than burning heavy fuel oil for instance.

Ian,  The process I recalled was not steam reformation but a pyrolysis route than does not produce CO2, summarised here:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenrg.2018.00047/full

Still at prototype stage , and as you say maybe too big for ships. Its the elimination of CO2 that looks interesting, Carbon black is useful as soil improver.

Peter

 

[michaeljf]

Hello, There is an interesting article in the August 2018 edition (No.213) of Race Tech Motorsport Engineering (racetechmag.com) about fuel for the future called "Fuelling Formula 1". Which would seem to make electric cars redundant !  Our "newest" car is 1999 (Audi A3 1.8T) and bike 2005 (Honda SP2) Regards,Michael.