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children climate change & schools absence


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I genuinely believe that it is a good thing that children are now actively taking an interest in Climate Change.

The cynic in me wonders how many will now be walking to school instead of mum dropping them off, and they will refuse to fly off  on holidays won't they?

But lots of talk of stopping the carrier bag will save the planet.

 

Alan

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5 minutes ago, AB|W said:

I genuinely believe that it is a good thing that children are now actively taking an interest in Climate Change.

Indeed.  I can't really disagree with your second  sentence either, though you (we) might be surprised in some cases.

I thought the government response was disappointing and patronising ("worry about the educational effects of missing lessons").  They are being shamed actually.....

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So did they over here a few weeks ago. The McDonald's and the KFC nearby the square where the demonstration was, were completely out of food after the demo. The mess they left behind on the square was so much that the City Council of The Hague needed two full dump trucks to move all the debris and trash...

What's more: lots of these kids were interviewed and -very naive- a few of them told reporters that their family had plans for 3 holidays/year by plane... 

My guess: max 10% of the kids on the demo grounds were sincerely there for a better environment. The others were there for a day out.  Can't blame them.

Menno

 

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4 hours ago, MennoR said:

So did they over here a few weeks ago. The McDonald's and the KFC nearby the square where the demonstration was, were completely out of food after the demo. The mess they left behind on the square was so much that the City Council of The Hague needed two full dump trucks to move all the debris and trash...

What's more: lots of these kids were interviewed and -very naive- a few of them told reporters that their family had plans for 3 holidays/year by plane... 

My guess: max 10% of the kids on the demo grounds were sincerely there for a better environment. The others were there for a day out.  Can't blame them.

Menno

 

Indeed,i heard a 15 year old on the radio yesterday saying we have 12 years to save the planet,i wondered what has been happening for the last 4.6 Billion years.

Is humankind raping the planet of resources..absolutely,will switching your engine off in Parliament Square stop it,i doubt it.

Humans are a Goose fart in the great scheme of things,the planet will continue,humans won`t,planetary science is fascinating.

Red Giant anyone?.

S

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Good luck to them, they will need it.  Once they start looking at how their lifestyle must change, their tune will change.

The irony in the protest is it started in Sweden, one of the  nations that will suffer least form cc. And it was co-ordinated using the internet, whcoh is responsible for 10% of global electrcity consumption.

I loved the slogan on a biilboard   " I've seen smarter cabinets in Ikea"

Peter

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Merkel, the last of the big coal burners  Germany burns as much coal and lignite as it did 20 years ago. While UK slashed generation from coal to around 2%, on Merkel's watch 25% of German generation is still coal-lignite fired.     Looks like the youngsters have got her rattled, and quite right too.  

Peter

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... that coal burning in Germany is an odd thing. I am a certified sailing instructor and a few years back I had a nice German gentleman on my boat for 5 days. He wanted to learn to sail. He told me that he was a Board member of RWE (RWE website) and one of the things he told me that on certain days, Germany is capable of producing >100% of its energy needs from solar power and wind. On a sunny but windy day, the windmills in the north and on hills and solar panel parks on the south-facing banks in the south produce more power than Germany needs! Coal power is cheap but Germany's last coal mine closed down last year. So perhaps it's time for them to switch to other resources as well.

Menno

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Odd indeed!  Germany was the home of the "Atomcraft Nien Danke!" movement, a legitimate if wrong headed PoV, for many years, getting nowhere until the Fukushima disaster.    Then, within weeks, Germany announced that it would close down all 17 of its nuclear power stations by 2022.    This was despite Fukushima being successfully built to withstand earthquake, but not the tsunami that overwhelmed it, and the only part of Germany that faces the sea being the least vulnerable to quakes.

Die Karte zeigt die Erdbebengefährdung der D-A-CH Staaten, d.h. Deutschland, Ãsterreich und Schweiz.

Image result for German nuclear power stations map

Why Mrs.Merkel changed her nuclear policy so drastically is unknown, but it does put Germany back onto coal fired power.

John

Edited by JohnD
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Mennor,

what you say is true but only half of the story. One part is that the wind farms are in the north but the power consumers (industry) are in the south and a vast programme of transmission line construction has started, at a huge cost, to connect the country directly. A lot of their power is currently (sorry) routed through neighbouring countries and it destabilises their grids. Wind energy in general is not a stable source of power particularly in variable wind speed conditiond. Without the inertia of thermal turbo alternators the system would not work. Also wind is not dispatchable , i.e. it does not cater for load increase or decrease, this balancing is done by thermal generation..

Unfortunately the general public is never informed of the very many real drawbacks of renewable generation and the real liability is that there are times where Europe is becalmed so virtually no wind power. This actually means that we need as much thermal generation capacity as peak grid demand meaning all the capacity of installed wind generation is wasted. No wonder Germany's electricity is so expensive, similarly as is ours.

It is ludicrous that our government is planning to shut the few remaining British coal fired stations without any plan to replace that plant with new dispatchable plants. Not only that it leaves our grid at the mercy of gas supply and this is generally constricted during very cold weather, when peak electricity demand is greatest. We relied on coal to keep our grid functioning when the 'Beast from the East' hit the U.K.. That will surely occur again in the future. The relatively minute amount of CO2 from these stations is not a reason to shut them without adequate replacements.

I believe it's a matter of when not if we have a major grid failure due to the inept policies of various energy ministers of our government. Because of this I have bought a diesel generator for our small business as insurance.

Alec

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Why Mrs.Merkel changed her nuclear policy so drastically is unknown, but it does put Germany back onto coal fired power.

John

John

Not entirely an about-turn - this is a long-standing policy, described (from a slightly partisan viewpoint) here.

Paul

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Thank you, Paul, but for the reasons given by Alec, if we have mostly non-carbon power sources then there is a need for some more controllable power source to balance out the peaks and troughs, of demand & supply.

The Greens seems to want the first but reject the second.     One's thoughts turn to special places.

JOhn

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14 hours ago, PeterC said:

Merkel, the last of the big coal burners 

In Europe perhaps Peter, but dwarfed by China who are expanding coal generation :

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en

Note they currently have 993GW of coal capacity - rather makes UK gesture-politics look completely futile doesn't it considering our grid only has around 50GW from all sources.

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21 minutes ago, DeTRacted said:

In Europe perhaps Peter, but dwarfed by China who are expanding coal generation :

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en

Note they currently have 993GW of coal capacity - rather makes UK gesture-politics look completely futile doesn't it considering our grid only has around 50GW from all sources.

Rob, Indeed China dwarfs all. But the UK obeyed EU dictats and culled its coal burning yet allowed Merkel to totallly ignore it. I think shw was under pressure from Gren poltician to kill oof nuclear for spurious reasons. She has Brussels around her little finger. Peter

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More dials here than you could ever want. UK's grid sources, hour by hour etc.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

We have vey little reserve on a windless winter weekday (55 -13= 42 compared with 40 to 42 demand Mon to Frid). When demand starts to overtake supply and frequency has been lowered maximally,  heavy users are paid to switch off (eg Tesco's freezers).    The CEGB will be spinning in their grave.

Peter

 

 

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34 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Thank you, Paul, but for the reasons given by Alec, if we have mostly non-carbon power sources then there is a need for some more controllable power source to balance out the peaks and troughs, of demand & supply.

The Greens seems to want the first but reject the second.     One's thoughts turn to special places.

JOhn

Fully agree, John and I didn't want to imply that I was defending it.  Alec's excellent summary underlines the short-term agenda of successive govts, for whom energy has alternately been a bargaining tool and a whip.

Paul

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6 hours ago, 2.5piman said:

Mennor,

what you say is true but only half of the story. One part is that the wind farms are in the north but the power consumers (industry) are in the south and a vast programme of transmission line construction has started, at a huge cost, to connect the country directly. A lot of their power is currently (sorry) routed through neighbouring countries and it destabilises their grids. Wind energy in general is not a stable source of power particularly in variable wind speed conditiond. Without the inertia of thermal turbo alternators the system would not work. Also wind is not dispatchable , i.e. it does not cater for load increase or decrease, this balancing is done by thermal generation..

Unfortunately the general public is never informed of the very many real drawbacks of renewable generation and the real liability is that there are times where Europe is becalmed so virtually no wind power. This actually means that we need as much thermal generation capacity as peak grid demand meaning all the capacity of installed wind generation is wasted. No wonder Germany's electricity is so expensive, similarly as is ours.

It is ludicrous that our government is planning to shut the few remaining British coal fired stations without any plan to replace that plant with new dispatchable plants. Not only that it leaves our grid at the mercy of gas supply and this is generally constricted during very cold weather, when peak electricity demand is greatest. We relied on coal to keep our grid functioning when the 'Beast from the East' hit the U.K.. That will surely occur again in the future. The relatively minute amount of CO2 from these stations is not a reason to shut them without adequate replacements.

I believe it's a matter of when not if we have a major grid failure due to the inept policies of various energy ministers of our government. Because of this I have bought a diesel generator for our small business as insurance.

Alec

 

 

 

Interesting additional info. Thanks for that. I remember that he told me that energy prices are high in Germany. However... Dutch prices are on the rise as well... 46% of what a household pays, is tax! 

Menno

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