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Depends if E5 will remain available along side.

Actually, you can probably modify older stuff more easily. With SUs and Strombergs, simply winding the jets down 2 or 3 flats will get you most of the way there. Fixed jet carbs more troublesome, but the worst will be the semi-modern, say currently 8- 15 years old, which are self tuning but typically don’t have enough adjustment range to accommodate the leaning effect of E10.

My own view is that E10 is a greenwash as the source of the ethanol and its green credentials are obscure, some even being made from crude oil.

Also in that article is the strong suggestion that the tax relief on red diesel is to go. Between that and the changing subsidy regime, I reckon small farming is completely screwed. Probably all part of the grand plan to allow the super rich to buy most of British farmland to grow pheasants for fun or maize for AD and subsidy mining......

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10 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

the worst will be the semi-modern, say currently 8- 15 years old, which are self tuning but typically don’t have enough adjustment range to accommodate the leaning effect of E10.

But which are 'relatively' easily hackable... perhaps a use for some of the old chip tuning gear I've accumulated over the years 'E10 remaps R US'? ;) 

There's always octane boosters too...

Still, not too worried about this.  It's been this way 'over here' for ages and you can still buy E5 (E10 is just the 'default') and you can still buy full lead if you want to, just not on forecourts e.g.  https://aaoil.co.uk/product-category/racing-fuel/ 

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3 hours ago, richy_rich said:

perhaps a use for some of the old chip tuning gear I've accumulated over the years 'E10 remaps R US'? ;) 

Lucrative sideline maybe....

3 hours ago, richy_rich said:

There's always octane boosters too...

Won't help you.  The octane is fine - probably better in fact.  It changes the stochiometric ratio with more fuel being needed  (forget the exact amount but it's outside the self correction capacity of most cars pre mid-2000s).

Have run the Vitesse (not entirely typical of 60s/70s Triumphs in the fuel delivery department it is true) on E10 a couple of times when nothing else was available.  It ran ok, if somewhat flat and hitchy.  What was also very noticeable was the drop in mpg...…  I can concoct a slightly richer map for MS and have it switchable.  Could even install a flex fuel sensor and make it self-adjusting for ethanol content.  Would rather not though.  As I'm sure I've bored you with before, I did once mis-fuel it with E85.  It did still run, but only just barely dragged itself the 10 miles home.  Drained that out and added the real stuff and all back to normal.

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The government proposal document recognises problems and includes retaining E5. 

Quotes:

As a number of vehicles and other petrol-powered machinery are not approved for use with E10, the ongoing supply of the current E5 grade will need to be maintained.

it should be rolled out as a replacement for the current 95 E5 "premium" grade. This would be accompanied by a requirement to keep E5 available in the higher octane super grade (98 E5).

So you might have to pay a bit more and run on premium fuel. Also remember the numbers are "up to" so the % ethanol may well be a bit less anyway. 

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3 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

The octane is fine - probably better in fact.  It changes the stochiometric ratio with more fuel being needed

Ok, right, makes sense.. I'd never really thought about it tbh.  Every time I've read people complaining about it it seems to have been because it 'eats' rubber seals and pipes and so on.

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36 minutes ago, richy_rich said:

'eats' rubber seals and pipes and so on.

Oh, it'll do that too.  And promote corrosion by absorbing and holding water.  It also seems to increase vapour pressure so vapour locking could be worse for cars with low pressure fuel systems (carbs).  This was bourn out on one of the 10CRs when a whole bunch of cars had issues after filling at a particular station which turned out to be E10.  That was a while back when it was very new on the scene and caught us on the hop.

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13 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

but the worst will be the semi-modern, say currently 8- 15 years old, which are self tuning but typically don’t have enough adjustment range to accommodate the leaning effect of E10.

Do you think that’s accidental?

remember what I said about using technical changes to drive older cars off the road in the electric thread.

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

Classic Sports Car Club has researched and posted some links to sites with E10 advice.  I won't post the UK Gov one.

From the RAC: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

And on specifically classics: https://classicenginesmodernfuel.org.uk/E10/Default.aspx?DYN_MENU_MainMenu=1000001

The last points out the corrosion that E10 can cause by absorbing water, which becomes acidic.  And says that there is no additive that can protect.    As I've posted, I've found problems with my Bosch Pi pumps that I fear is due to this cause even with E5, and after Fuel Stabiliser additive.  Perhaps the only solution is to flush the pump with fresh fuel as part of the winter lay-up, and seal the ends.

John

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Best solution is to avoid......  It's not clear where they are actually going get the ethanol from - apparently UK supply is inadequate even for the E5 content.

Failing that, the best solution is probably to keep using the car so the fuel is kept turned over and reasonably fresh.

 

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Some research finds that the FBHVC tested ethanol protection agents when E5 was in the offing.     Several were included, VSPe, Ethomix and Ethanolmate all were given Federation approval.     None have been tested AFAIK with E10.     Only for Ethanolmate is it claimed that it "Protects against acid corrosion in metal fuel line components"

https://www.flexolite.co.uk/item.asp?iID=131&cID=1&page=FUEL+SYSTEMS+-+from+Flexolite+ETHANOLMATE+-+the+NEW+fuel+additive+from+Flexolite

So maybe - maybe - there is something that can protect my fuel pump!

John

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