Helmet advice

[flatter4]

 

Evening all,

 

I need to buy myself a new crash hat, mine is too old / uncomfortable and smelly!

I was hoping to buy one that I can use on the bike, and for the car should I ever manage to get it out and running.

For the car it will be track days, and possibly the odd hillclimb / sprint.

 

What do I need?  I've had a look in the MSA blue book, but I'm not sure which bits apply?

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

[GHR630]

You need Red Label (BS 6658-85, Type A/FR or equivalent) FIA standard helmet as of next year for hill climb and sprints. We have all had to invest in new helmets to replace the Blue Labels we used to use. Blue is still OK for non-competition though such as track days.

[flatter4]

 

 

Thanks George.  It looks like the standards for motorcycles (ECE 22.05) and cars are very different = 2 helmets = too much!

 

[GT6Steve]

Here in the US the racing helmets are designated SA (Special Application)  to differentiate them from the motorcycle helmets.  The extra spec means the liner is Nomex or another fireproof material whereas a motorcycle helmet wouldn't require that.

 

I'm sure Georges definitions and the Red/Blue tags are something similar.  No reason you couldn't wear a racing helmet on your bike... 8)

[GHR630]

The MSA standard required as of  01/01/2010 are:

 

FIA 8860-2004

SNELL SA2005

SFI 31.1A, 31.2A

BS6658 TYPE A/FR (not BS6658-85 Type A/FR which I wrongly quoted before! You can see it is very similar except for the year [85].)

 

This is now the minimum requirement for all speed events and circuit racing now.

 

For track days, there should be loads of Type A or B Blue label helmets going cheap now because of the regulation change!

[flatter4]

 

I'm sure Georges definitions and the Red/Blue tags are something similar.  No reason you couldn't wear a racing helmet on your bike... 8)

 

I've been looking around at what is available.  The latest requirement for cars in the UK is BS6658 TYPE A/FR (thanks George).  The FR refers to "Fire Resistant" - so the liner must be nomex or similar.  They used to recommend a balaclava - why not make that mandatory and stick with the Type A helmets?

 

Bike helmets are ECE 22.05.  I have heard that insurance companies have failed to pay up if helmets don't have the correct approval (though this might be bollocks).  Don't suppose I would be in a state to care, but the missus might be a bit pissed off if she didn't get any money after going to the effort of cutting the brake lines!...

 

... and why is £400 worth of bike helmet no good for a car (or the other way around).  I don't believe the technology or the impact absorbsion are that different (bar the fire resistance).

Enough ranting.

 

 

[JohnD]

I started a similar thread over on Ten-Tenths: http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118924

You may like to to read through it - I learnt a lot.

 

John

[flatter4]

 

 

John, just read through your link.  Interesting, and evidence that all crashes are different.  I know of people who have survived because they weren't wearing a seatbelt - but would want to wear one myself, and of course belts have saved more lives than they have claimed.

 

Here's a copy of a reply I got from Shoei about double classifications on helmets:

 

All the Shoei helmets are now made to the EC2205 standard which is recognised in Europe and the UK. The helmets that have the BS standard are the pre 2001 helmets and are very few and far between now. Unfortunately the car motor racing governing board do not recognise the EC 2205 standard and so the helmets now made for the Bike industry are not acceptable for car motor racing.

Sorry we cannot help further.

Best Regards

 

I just don't believe I would be safer in a car with a budget BS6658 helmet than I would be with a quality EC22 05 one (if I wore a nomex balaclava!).

 

- and like you John, don't like to feel I'm being shafted on price.

 

[JohnD]

BUT,

I can tell you, as one who has been in a roll-over, write-off crash in a Triumph, some may survive without a seat belt, most will with.

I survived, totally unhurt, thanks to six point harness, race seat and roll cage.

No thanks to the Porsche that hit me.

John

[flatter4]

 

I wasn't advocating not wearing - just that all accidents are different - and there are no guarantees whatever you wear - as demonstrated by the fellow in your link who (possibly) avoided serious injury by not wearing a helmet.

...but if he wore a helmet he would have taken one minute to put it on, and left in the car later, and avoided the crash, and picked up a gorgeous hitch hiker on the way - wow how life could be different!

 

[rsimps]

Unfortunately rules are rules. We have had to uprate seats, mounts and belts for the class we do. I had some specially made seats to fit me, but there is no way I can afford something similar at the same weight, it would be going up for a grand each. I would always buy a good helmet and overalls. Its important the helmet fits well and is comfy. I would go for full face, unless you need extra wide angle visibility or need to talk.

[Nick B.]

Holy cow - those helmets are expensive.

 

I had thought something like this would be sufficient for an occasional trackday.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Open-Face-Helmets-TARGET-size-M-57-58-cm_W0QQitemZ150398856646QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Helmets?hash=item2304786dc6

 

According to danish rules it is OK with that sort of helmet, but protectionwise - could I just as well use a wet newspaper for effect?

 

Cheers

Nick

[GHR630]

There are now two possibilites for budget MSA Compliant helmets I have found so far - and I reckon I will be buying one of them:

 

http://www.v2sport.com/v2tourimages.html#

 

 

 

http://www.hedtec.co.uk/hedtec_helmet_open_face.htm

 

 

[PeteClan]

George,

 

I tried the Hedtec helmets at the Autosport show and was impressed by the fit and finish.  I'm interested in the full face with the Hans posts as it looks like that will shortly be another expense.

 

Pete Richards