Freelander wheel studs MGF wheels on spitfire

[GT6_sleeper]

Ok lots of people ask questions about fitting MGF wheels and Freelander studs, so having done this to yet another triumph here is how it is doen, lots of pictures as they speak a thousand words

 

Wheels being fitted are MGF 15" 6J, option square six spoke. Tyres are standard mgf 185/55/15 front 205/50/15 rear

 

these are fitted to a long shaft spitfire not sure if rear tyres need changing to 185/55/15 wheel give some hard road testing and let you know looking on the drive there is loads of room though.

 

Best to start at the rear as that may take longer.

Remove the wheel and the drum

remove hub nut and washer, then fit hub puller.

you may hear the hub pop but nether the less it will come off.

a vice helps for this bit, just tap the old studs out with a hammer a couple of hard wacks should do it.

take a look at the difference between the studs

remove the pink stuff from the new wheel studs then tap in with a hammer, should go nice and flat to hub

then fit back to the car

ok just to show you the old wheels fit with the new studs here you go

fit the new wheels, look even the centre fits correctly, same size as spitfire

please note when fitting mgf wheels the nuts are very important and need to be correct, these are genuine MGF ones

now the front

remove the wheel, calliper and castle nut

hub will come off now just take care of the bearings and note which way they go back in.

remove the disc from the hub

now tap the old studs out same as before

fit new studs

now fit back to the car.

here is some before and after

 

 

edit--- one more thing, just because I have not mentioned re greasing things you should still bloody do it

[lordleonusa]

Helpful thread!

 

Thanks

 

L

[AJ.Lintern]

If you don't have a hub puller you can fit the rear studs without taking the hub off. Just need to file a slot in the wheel cylinder cutout to give enough room to pass the studs through the back plate and into the hub.

[GT6_sleeper]

If you don't have a hub puller you can fit the rear studs without taking the hub off. Just need to file a slot in the wheel cylinder cutout to give enough room to pass the studs through the back plate and into the hub.

 

or drill a hole in the back plate thats what i did last time, thought i woild do it correctly this time though. ;D

[motov8id]

if you leave the nut on just threaded to the end of the axle you will avoid mushrooming the end . nice substantial puller. what was the claw hammer on the bench for were you pulling nails out of you tires?

[James]

Where is everyone getting their freelander studs from? I need 8 of them for my front hubs (rears have M12 on them already)

[Nick Jones]

I get them from my local LR dealer.  At just over a quid each they are cheaper than standard ones!

 

You need to be a little bit careful with the standard MGF / R100 ones as they have a relatively long unthreaded section which can, on some wheel types, cause the nuts to bottom out before the wheel is properly clamped........  How do I know this..... :

 

Nick

[GT6_sleeper]

if you leave the nut on just threaded to the end of the axle you will avoid mushrooming the end . nice substantial puller. what was the claw hammer on the bench for were you pulling nails out of you tires?

Totally right, I had a fancy hub puller borrowed from MR_GT6 that did not need to do that but yes leaving the nut on the end is a good idea.

claw hammer was on bench from nailing bird table back together lol

got my studs from local landrover parts dealer he wanted £1.59 a stud but when i told him i got them last year for £1.25 he sold them to me for that.  ;D

 

 

[James]

Nick > argh now you tell me this

 

I had the hubs off the links too...

 

There's no issue with the standard wheel nuts I have... I am planning to put the Revs on that I have - which have tube nut type things...

[Nick Jones]

Nick > argh now you tell me this

 

I had the hubs off the links too...

 

There's no issue with the standard wheel nuts I have... I am planning to put the Revs on that I have - which have tube nut type things...

 

Might be ok - the tube nuts don't necessarily go all the way to the drum - my fingers are crossed for you!  Has been mentioned before.....

 

Nick

[James]

Ahh well - we will see - off to Copenhagen now - I'd rather be anywhere else than the airport!

[lordleonusa]

Ahh well - we will see - off to Copenhagen now - I'd rather be anywhere else than the airport!

 

That brings back memories for me of driving my supercharged Herald down the 'Englanderweg' tunnel under the airport - having just had the exhaust system ripped off on an absurd ferry ramp - which in my car's defence, also took off various Volvo's exhaust systems.  

 

It was so loud, I couldn't hear for 15 minutes afterwards!!

 

n.b. I just looked at maps of Copenhagen airport online and cannot now see 'Englanderweg', so perhaps they renamed it since i was there? Whatever it's now called, it definitely went underneath the runway, because I distinctly recall seeing aircraft taxiing overhead as I went into it.  

 

L

[SpitmkIIICPH]

I think you may be reffering to "Englandsvej" - this seems to pass under a runway. From this you can catch the E20 which brings you to Sweden.

 

A bit of local info:

Did you that CPH airport is actually situated on a small island which is called "Amager" which is part of greater Copenhagen.

 

Most danes refer to this island as "Shit Island", probably because it was once farm land with lots of manure.

[JohnD]

Small, but essential points to make this work succesfully.

 

1/ As shown above, the splines on LR studs are much coarser than Triumph ones.   Although this doesn't stop them going in, it means that you cannot rely on the splines to make the studs sit up vertically.  Also as shown above this doesn't happen by itself! (Pic 14, I think!).   Pull them into the hub with a specially made spacer or a stack of washers, and check the verticality by set square.

 

2/ You may think, b*gg*r it, the nut will pull it vertical when I strap the wheel on.   Yes, it will, but the non-fitting splines will let the stud turn in the hub.  It won't once the nut is tight, but on the way there it can be a problem.

The answer is to tack weld the stud head to the back of the hub.   Not a full weld, just enough to hold it until the nut is tight.  Just one tack weld will do it.  Grind the weld off if you need to redo it.

BUT, if the stud is not absolutely vertical when you tack it on, then you'll never get the nut onto the stud with the wheel in place!

See above!

 

3/ Not happy with making the slave cylinder slot bigger.  Safer to make your own hole in the brake backing plate, about 10 o'clock (or 2 o'clock) , just big enough for the stud head.  Then with great respect to GT6-sleeper, there is no need to take the hub off at all!  No problem with holes in the plate, some have ventilated that plate far more than just one hole, to promote cooling.

 

John

[starman]

Small, but essential points to make this work succesfully.

 

1/ As shown above, the splines on LR studs are much coarser than Triumph ones.   Although this doesn't stop them going in, it means that you cannot rely on the splines to make the studs sit up vertically.  Also as shown above this doesn't happen by itself! (Pic 14, I think!).   Pull them into the hub with a specially made spacer or a stack of washers, and check the verticality by set square.

 

2/ You may think, b*gg*r it, the nut will pull it vertical when I strap the wheel on.   Yes, it will, but the non-fitting splines will let the stud turn in the hub.  It won't once the nut is tight, but on the way there it can be a problem.

The answer is to tack weld the stud head to the back of the hub.   Not a full weld, just enough to hold it until the nut is tight.  Just one tack weld will do it.  Grind the weld off if you need to redo it.

BUT, if the stud is not absolutely vertical when you tack it on, then you'll never get the nut onto the stud with the wheel in place!

See above!

 

3/ Not happy with making the slave cylinder slot bigger.  Safer to make your own hole in the brake backing plate, about 10 o'clock (or 2 o'clock) , just big enough for the stud head.  Then with great respect to GT6-sleeper, there is no need to take the hub off at all!  No problem with holes in the plate, some have ventilated that plate far more than just one hole, to promote cooling.

 

John

 

If you press the Freelander studs into the hubs from the head end of the stud, and do it properly, which is not difficult, then the studs will seat properly normal (i.e., plane perpendicular) to the hub surface, and no tack welding will be necessary.  While the splines are coarser than those on the Triumph studs, they work quite well and fit quite securely when installed correctly.  At least I've never had a problem on two vehicles's worth of hubs.  Perhaps if your hubs have had multiple stud replacements or have been otherwise loosened-up such that the holes in the hubs for the studs have been worn, deformed or enlarged, I suppose you can run into the rotating stud issue (but you'd probably have the same rotating stud issue with Triumph studs too, regardless of spline pitch. it's really a matter of shank and hole compatibility; shank diameter at the peak of the splines and hole diameter in the hub.  installing new studs plastically deforms the metal in the hubs around the splines to lock them in, but too many cycles of this can lead to enlarged holes, little or no material remaining to deform around the splines and hence loose studs).  Moreover, while pulling the studs into position may not overstress them and therefore be acceptable, it's not ideal and it's good to avoid this installation method if you can so you don't gall threads or, in the unlikely extreme, stretch the studs.  Removing the hubs allows the press-in (rather than the pull-in) method.  Of course if you don't remove the rear hubs, you'll have to compromise and rely on the pull-in method.  If you use pull-in, lubricate the threads on the stud, nut and spacing material well to reduce the risk of damage to the studs.

 

-Paul

[GHR630]

I only did the front 'cos the rear hubs are MGF. MY Freelander studs fitted well and securely with no need for weld. This has been tested as my wheel are changed regularly (for competition) and i use a 12v impact wrench in the field and an air wrench at home - no problems.

[JohnD]

Front hubs are different!

The head of the stud needs to have a flat ground/filed, or else the hole is too close to the hub casting.

The flat and close fit to the hub makes sure that the stud cannot turn.

 

I used Ford studs, but the Freelander ones look to have similarly sized heads.

Did you need to do this, George?

 

AND, I'm fitting MGF rear hubs/uprights, and one stud was damaged.  Looked as if the DPO had drilled a siezed nut off!

The upright just prevents the stud coming out, unless a flat is filed/ground in the side of the head, as above!

 

John

[hrgserv]

sorry to disagree with you john i would not weld the stud at all, if you tack weld the stud to the hub you completely bugger up the hardening on the stud

if the stud is loose then you need a new/replacement hub

[JohnD]

I'm not talking a red hot stud.

Nor am I talking about welding the stud to the hub.

A single tack weld might soften the tempering of a sement of the head, but the rest?

I'm not convinced.

The hubs I originally did this to had the production studs before I put the non-O/e ones in. No wear at all.

How many splines do Freelander studs have?  It would be interesting to compare with Triumph and my Ford ones.

 

I'll be interested to hear how you get on, George.

I know what you are saying about frequent wheel changes.

Although you are a true Triumphero for driving your hillclimb car to venues, so that you put on competition wheels and take them off to drive home again, every motorsport driver must remove and replace their wheels almost as often for maintenance, many times more often than road drivers.  It was after a few such wheel changes that  the need for a tack weld to the stud revealed itself.  

 

John

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Found the studs WAY WAY WAY too tight to pull them in? Had to compress them in. No way on earth they are coming out!

[JohnD]

That may indicate that Ford and LR studs are not quite the same.

Also indicates that the LR studs are not exactly an interference fit, as they are not a slding fit, metal ahs to be deformed to get them in.

Tight, yes.   Permanent, maybe.  But only maybe, and think of the extra stresses in that hub!

 

Possibly as weakening as my tack weld?

But there again, we are all just bodgers!

 

John

[DaveNotSoSideways]

I'll be sticking to Ford ones, they are a nicer fit for me, I felt them to be ideal in the force needed to fit them to a billet alloy hub which just had the stupid little standard studs removed.

 

I fitted the LR ones to a set of new billet hubs that had never had any studs fitted at all, they were VERY tight, hubs billet so will give but a cast item, I agree John, lots pressure radiating out. No way on earth these studs will come loose in these hubs.

 

I never tried the LR ones in an old steel hub but I hear some easy and some hard...If you tried to wind in the studs to those alloy hubs you'd have needed 200-250ft/lbs torque, bye bye threads

[James]

I need to get some new studs for the cast ones - I'm swapping out my alloy ones.

 

So I have M12 on the back (hopefully they will be ok!) but I need to swap out the fronts - I was hoping to go for M12 because then it'll match the rears.

 

I'm confused what to go for now

[James]

Just found a photo of my hubs... there looks like a fair amount of thread?

 

[DaveNotSoSideways]

You might find its ok with the drum on and an alloy wheel, only 1 way to see....