James' EFI Saloon Thread

[James]

Simon - I'll bring it over sometime. Was hoping to consult your brain with ideas for wiring etc Am hoping to get wideband/rpm/map wired in this weekend so I can check it's all running ok

 

Andy - Witor in the end - it fits very well so no complaints about that part.

 

I'll get a video with some sounds it's not going to be doing 7k for a few weekends yet

 

(I'm hoping to take the crown of best sounding saloon from Mr Gair - big ambition and work to do first )

[Nick B.]

Innovate LC1 arrived today (from Latvia) - going to put in and time the cam on Saturday.

 

Exciting

 

Have you found a good source for LC1? Please share  

 

Cheers

Nick

[James]

eBay - but I would take a look at TechEdge - it seems like a better product.

[mk2vitesses]

Inspired by putting your unit together, I finished of the race car MS1 V3 tonight!!

 

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x119/mk2vitesses/?action=view&current=RaceCarECU2.jpg

 

[James]

Very neat!

[James]

So today I had a little drive about for the first time

 

It drives reasonably well considering only carbs have been balanced and timing adjusted.

 

Annoyingly I didn't get the bits for the airfilter in time - and also need to modify the engine crossmember so that there is enough room for the airbox (ala 2500S) - so no more driving this weekend. At least I can do some measuring this afternoon and get it all sorted.

 

At the moment it feels a bit flat, WOT doesn't really go anywhere. Was better up top when the timing was initially advanced but that proved to pink too much (the advance curve needs adjusting as it's currently far too advanced up top)

 

Overall though it seems to have plenty of torque down low - it's certainly already quicker than the old engine and I'm barely using half throttle.

[toofast2race]

You will need to give a good thrashing to get it motoring properly (devil2)

[Nick Jones]

Yes, but before you give it a good thrashing you do need to run it in.  Longest items to run in are the pistons/rings/bores.  You don't want to be pushing the envelope on timing until the engine has at least 7 - 800 miles on it.  You want to avoid running too lean or too retarded as these tend to heat the pistons and increase the risk of them nipping up. I'm paranoid - I always assume any engine I'be built is going to to blow up until it's proved otherwise by doing a couple of thousand miles.

 

As far as the timing goes, it needs what it needs and that will have to be determined by trial and error.  I'd limit max advance to 30º for now.

 

Nick

[James]

Thanks Nick.

 

I am going to try less advance tomorrow and see how it responds.

[sorbs]

The 2000 handbook recommends driving like a granny for the first 1000 miles, occasionally using a few revs but never full throttle,  changing the oil, and only then, over the next 1000 miles or so, gradually starting to increase time spent at full throttle and higher revs.

 

Not sure how much modern materials and oils will affect this advice......................

[James]

I am taking it very very easy - my main effort has been trying to use lots of engine braking in an effort to bed the rings in (I read it somewhere!)

 

I think two things:

 

1) I am sure advice from the manufacturer is very very safe so they don't get people destroying engines - or at least they can say "told you so"

2) modern oils most certainly help a lot - though currently I have crappy cheap oil in there to help with running in

[James]

So this evening I found some good stuff

 

A modern style two terminal temp sensor with 5/8 UNF thread:

https://www.simpsonsupplies.co.uk/Sensors/Water_Temperature_Sensor__184_/SI1045_COOLANT_TEMP__SENSOR_ROVER_SNB151_1673.html

 

Datasheet here:

http://www.lucaselectrical.co.uk/catalogues/XCB416_08_technical.pdf

 

SNB151

5/8 UNF  

2000ohms @ 25C

182ohms@100C

 

That Simpson supplies has lots of useful stuff most of it decent value too - I stumbled upon it whilst looking for 1/2UNF tails etc for the CAV filter I am using as a swirl pot. They also do the Ford crank sensor for cheap too.

[sorbs]

I am taking it very very easy - my main effort has been trying to use lots of engine braking in an effort to bed the rings in (I read it somewhere!)

 

My Dad always reminds me when I go on long trips in old cars that he reckons it's a good idea to take my foot off the throttle when going down long motorway hills, draws oil into the upper cylinder area and helps keep things lubricated.  He was around in the days when you put a "Running in, please pass" sign in your back window................... ;D

 

TBH, even the running in info in the Audi book isn't much different to that in the 2000's.

 

The handbook in my mate's Armstrong Siddeley Hurricane (an awesome car) recommends maximum running in speeds of 10 mph in 1st, 20 mph in 2nd and 40mph in top...........

[mk2vitesses]

I recall some advice that said you thrash the rings in, what you want is to keep revs low (to reduce friction) but the cylinder pressure high (WOT).

This will help the rings to "bed in", if you don't you will glaze the bores. This is how I have run all the engines from new, and they have all worked fine!

[James]

Simon - as far as I remember reading it's lots of WOT and then deceleration to get the rings to push against the cylinder walls.

[James]

Well I took it for another drive - gave it some v-power.

 

Choke makes a difference, and the pump can't keep up with the carbs - at least that's what it feels like. It goes flat after a hard-ish acceleration.

 

As far as I can tell gather so far - it really will want to rev and rev!

[sorbs]

Another school of thought says that ex hire cars make good buys as they'll have had the tits thrashed off them since day one and that by 10,000 miles they'll be nicely bedded in.

 

Same with marine diesel engines, I think they're supposed to be run at high load whenever possible.

 

All depends on how the bores have been honed apparently.

[mk2vitesses]

A newly rebuilt Lycoming aero engine is run at full power once it has reached operating temp!

VERY annoying if you are close by!

[toofast2race]

Simon - as far as I remember reading it's lots of WOT and then deceleration to get the rings to push against the cylinder walls.

 

Yep that what I do for the first 250miles , + let it rev under light load up to 4000-5000

 

The KEY is not to go on a motorway for the first 1000 kms - lots of A road acceleration/ deacceleration - you will feel it free up - no max speed testing until +1000mile and a dyno check for timing and mixture

[sorbs]

 

Yep that what I do for the first 250miles , + let it rev under light load up to 4000-5000

 

The KEY is not to go on a motorway for the first 1000 kms - lots of A road acceleration/ deacceleration - you will feel it free up - no max speed testing until +1000mile and a dyno check for timing and mixture

 

My first journey in my new Passat was a 300 mile motorway trip to Edinburgh, didn't really have a choice; I tried to vary my speed throughout the journey though.  We've run a few of our cars in in that way.  It's nice to get the first 1000 miles over with asap, ideally in a day or two  .

 

After the 1st 1000 miles I gradually started to use more and more turbo boost and by about 5000 miles it had loosened up nicely, never used a drop of oil even when it had more than 100k on the clock.

 

I've always favoured the gently gently approach with a new engine but thb I'm not really sure it makes all that much difference.

[James]

I've treated myself to a few down hill blasts up to the higher rev range.

 

It's running out of fuel - I think the pump can't keep up (it's only using the standard)

 

1st gear is goes well but by the time you're up to 2nd it's flat.

 

Actually reminds me totally of when my tank was full of rust and kept blocking filters.

[mk2vitesses]

I knew this!!

Same problem with my car as it was, sorry James I did say why I had fitted an electric pump when I showed you my car, I just forgot to push the point!

[James]

I remember that now

 

Eurgh - another cost! Don't need it after going EFI either...

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Agree lots of on and off power to get high cylinder pressure on the rings avoiding long sessions of throttle angle cruising, whether it makes any difference who knows the science makes sense though. Rings are under low pressure at low fill or low output just before you are fully lifted off.

 

Always the temptation to use too much advance, actually as you get more experienced you try to run the minimum needed, not the maximum you can. You notice the engine is alot more stable over fluctuating fuel/atomspheres etc with just 1-2deg back from "perfect atom/fuel situation".

 

[James]

As an update - will be fitting the spacer blocks needed for the air box to fit this week and fitting the filtration system - luckily this will carry over to the EFI.

 

Have got a fuel pump - Facet Posi-Flow - will wire that in also.

 

Have ordered all the bits for the swirl pot (aka modified CAV filter) so I may mount that and put everything in place for the EFI fuel system but use the posi-flow instead.

 

Then hopefully a simple case of changing the dizzy for less advance and I should be able to run her in.

 

Am running out of time for the CC track day I may have to do lots of driving around in the evening to pile on the mileage.

 

 

James