Mystery 33 Yr Old 1500 Engine

[GT]

I just finished stripping down this engine.

This is a guessing game for you all.

 

The engine has just recently gone round the clock and has never been ground or bored.

 

 

Can anyone guess the number of kms this engine has done?

 

Hint:- it could be a record (!), and this is how the camshaft looked...

 

 

 

The engine was still running and was driven to the workshop.

 

Should I give a prize to the winner?

[triumphlux]

405.183 km ??

[roulli]

What is the prize to win?

A set of TR6 progressive springs?

[GT]

It just got replaced.

The last brand new 1500 engine in the world, hopefully with a complete doubling in output power.

 

 

+

 

The usual mucking about TIg welding and making crappy SAH manifolds fit the inlet ports....

 

 

Also it now got an overdrive and some lightening in the bell housing area.

 

 

It was a tad busy here in the last few days (!), coupled with some gorgeous weather (30-31C)

 

 

[GT6MK3]

GT

 

You're obviously very busy.

 

Could you please take the time to answer any one of the four emails I sent you in the last month.

 

I'm a customer, and I'm disappointed.

 

Ta

 

Craig

[pomwah]

Not up on Spitfire cams but I know what Toyota cams look like after 200,000+ km. Those look a lot worse than 200k+ cams. 400k+ looks about right but given it's taken I'll go 500k+ km, but I might be fooling myself.

[GT]

GT

You're obviously very busy.

Could you please take the time to answer any one of the four emails I sent you in the last month.

I'm a customer, and I'm disappointed.

 

Let me just put you a little in the picture.

 

1/ I have had my 2 parents put in a car home with advanced dementia.

I have just spent upwards of 4000 QUID to make it possible to drop my entire family life for the whole summer, in order to have the last visits of their lives with them.....(they don't know that).

 

No doubt you will tell google now that Gareth has 2 elderly parents who basically completely lost it, and my Mum goes around the old people's home showing them how she is the last survivor of the cast of ballet-film "the red shoes"....never mind my Dad who believes pigs are flying or the SAS are landing on the front lawn in a Super Sea Puma.

 

2/ I haven't seen my wife and kids in over 2 months.

This is not funny. In fact it's intolerable.

 

3/ Some w..nkers in Stroud meanwhile impounded everyone's spare parts for the last 12-18 months and refused to release any of it, so basically I have to replace everything from my own pocket, cranks, heads, bearings, cylinder heads, the whole shooting match...

 

4/I have driven more than 10 000 miles in different vehicles this last 9 weeks without counting the air flights about 2000 miles in buses and overnight coaches from Paris to London and all over the UK, never mind attending the 2 shows in Malvern and Stafford.

 

5/ I guess you get paid at the end of every single month that comes along.

I don't.

In fact at the moment any skilled people, one man shows, are getting basically crapped on every day of the week no matter what all over the EU.

 

6/ I have just finished the engine above after Mr Girardot in Paris spent a shed load of money to buy every single bit of a brand new engine to stick in his car.

It took us both 2-3 years to assemble all this, and it's now running for the first time....

He has forgotten or overlooked practically every single essential bit to get this kit running so it's up to guess who to get it running and tuned perfectly no matter what

 

You are taking this moment to grandstand about an exhaust manifold which has been sitting at Prestige Air freight since last November to SAVE YOU MONEY in international transport to Australia?

 

That's it right?

Can you imagine you could stand any of the above circumstance 1/-5/ for more than 5 minutes without blowing a fuse?

[GT]

FYI the owner reminded me this morning that it has taken 5 years to assemble this engine out of all brand new parts.

 

 

 

 

There were not enough spare jets and the webers came with tiny 40F8 idle jets.

In the end for the air correctors I have to resort to "DRILL YOUR OWN".

 

There was no throttle linkage and no accelerator cable, and the J type OD adaptor plate got nicked by Maynard, as well as the guy's sump....so finding a brand OD adaptor plate & a good s/h sump involved tearing up 2 more 50 quid notes....to keep the customer happy.

 

I don't like being on a job 4-5 years, but sometimes you have to have the sheer staying power, because you know 15 years+ later it's highly likely the engine is still running.

 

As you can see, the proper exhaust got stranded in Paris, so that gets fitted tomorrow with the OD mounting plate and NOS mounting.

 

Sometimes the whole "40 year old British sports car" can we find this part (?) gets right on top of me, quite apart from trying to have a family life.

[GT6MK3]

GT,

 

You've ignored my emails about your latest promised/missed shipping date for 4 weeks, but have time to post here. I was hoping you'd email me, instead you post (again). In fact you have time to post new threads for discussion here on the forum I administer, but choose not to email me replies. You made a commitment to me over a month ago, and you don't seem to have kept it, and have failed to answer any emails as to why.

 

Since you decided to deride in public rather than discuss in private, let me answer your post in turn.

 

1 - 4. Let me say I'm sympathetic. I have a unique insight into the perils of self employment. But, sadly, 1 - 4 are basically a re-hash of what I've heard from you in the various emails for over 12 months explaining why you should be given latitude and not be asked to deliver whats been paid for in advance. Sadly, it become all to regular.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE

 

I'm pretty sure you toured China while my parts rested at Heathrow. And spent time punting Jag's around. Meanwhile, I wait. As to feeding google details of your parents' trials, please lets not be silly.

 

5. You guess entirely wrong. I've been a self employed sole trader since 1995. I know exactly how hard it can be not to get a monthly wage. The last time I got a monthly wage, Boris Yeltzin was running Russia, British troops still patrolled Northern Belfast, and O.J. Simpson was still awaiting trial. One man, one show. Every dollar I paid you for the headers and springs I'm waiting for came through the dint of sheer self employed hard work. Maybe thats why I expect better from you.

 

6. That's lovely. I'm glad you've done work for him, I hope you'll be strong enough to expect him to pay properly for it. Like I did.

 

7. I haven't asked to save money by having them languish at Heathrow. If any of my any innumerable emails asking, demanding , requesting, or begging for delivery contradict this, please feel free to post them online.

 

8. As I said above, I sympathise. But sympathy, like all emotions has a definable half life. I get up every day, generate business, go out and work. and as a result have a small amount of discresionary income. A good portion of that went to you last year in return for the promise of having parts for my car. When I can't meet a commitment to a client, I have to communicate with them and organise an alternative. Thats why I get repeat business.

 

 

 

I'd much rather we discussed this in private, via email. That's what I've tried to do. That's what I want to do. I think It would be better for your future business if we do.

 

 

 

You know my address. It's the one with four unanswered emails in the last month. I'm not asking for miracles, or for you to criss cross Europe in order to ship to me tomorrow. I'm asking for you to communicate with me privately and promptly, and to let me know what achievable delivery commitment you can make.

 

 

 

Craig

[GT]

In fact you have time to post new threads for discussion here on the forum I administer,

 

I'm pretty sure you toured China while my parts rested at Heathrow.

As to feeding google details of your parents' trials, please lets not be silly.

 

I'd much rather we discussed this in private, via email. That's what I've tried to do. That's what I want to do. I think It would be better for your future business if we do.

 

Err, all this is off topic and totally stupid

It's also got nothing to do with my having a tour in China, which FYI I will do again this year.

I thought better of you as an administrator to start this sort of nonsense but here it is....

 

Here are the facts:-

Your exhaust has been sitting in Feltham for 8-10 months.

As you specifically asked me to send you an exhaust jig (which it must be said I PAID FOR), I imagine you were not too keen on getting hit with an air freight charge of up to 500 quid for something of not very high value.

 

Being as that doesn't bother you, simply lift the phone, ring that freight company and ask them to send you the exhaust marked "AUSTRALIA" forthwith.

I don't see why I should get involved.

 

It was always agreed you pay them direct for freight.

 

I have really done my bit, in that I delivered it to the freight agent direct.

They probably won't charge you for packing but the air freight + customs charges will be collossal, as will the OZZY import duty, as there is a min charge of £250 X-ray and security on exports from the UK by air, before even counting the freight.

 

Ask me how I know?

 

As this was supposed to be going with a job lot PALLET of 150-200kg, it was imagined that you would normally pay a tiny fraction of this sum, and the Jig would be shipped at the same time, which it won't be now.

 

FYI the engine you see above was finished, paid, and delivered more than a year ago, so there is nothing to pay.

It also happens to be in FRANCE which you may note in passing, is actually considerably closer than Australia, and doesn't require all the shinnanigins & quality control problems used for international air freight.

 

If it bothers you I didn't reply to an e-mail, it's simply because I DON'T KNOW when I would be back in Heathrow area.

 

I don't have clearance to access a customs bonded warehouse where the items are held, and if I do, I have to be accompanied by staff who need 4hrs notice, who, to say the least are none to friendly- forcing you to wear those stupid yellow jackets and with interventions of customs and the health & safety brigade.

[Triumph-V8]

Bought several itemsw from Australia

as there was the electric water pump from David Craig.

Shipping from Australia to Germany was similar like USA and in limits.

Tax is 19% on items and shipping and also in limits.

Goods shipped from Germany to our friends in Australia

passed the customs for free and shipping was also in limits.

All easy without problems except that I had to drive to the customs to get my goods.

 

Maybe it helps to do the shipping from Germany to Australia

if that is really the main problem.

[GT]

Back to Engine nirvana (engy-vana?)...after so much OT tosh.

 

The 2nd spitfire got started yesterday....

Usual formula, GTT Hybrid cam, but a different flavour soup altogether.....

 

(More valve lift) & the owner found a set of roller rockers to drop on there.

 

 

The inlet valve is clearly visibly open at TDC via the plug hole, like all proper engines should be.

 

 

 

The results look radical enough for a road car, and it started instantly as per usual, and ran like a dream from new.

 

Another nice touch was yet another overdrive conversion and a 1500 alloy bell housing which it turned out the British vendors were charging AT LEAST £100 too much for, so it came from Germany direct instead....

 

 

Meanwhile on the other car Mr G had arrived from Paris with the proper exhaust and got stuck in with the usual french swearing and waving of arms....

 

I must say some of the safety stuff leaves something to be desired but I'm told the french always have soft landings...

 

[GT]

For some weird reasons the photos vanished from the last posting so here goes for the alloy b-housing stuff which the British charge AT LEAST £100 too much for, so it came direct from the land of Sauerkraut.

 

Lots of valve lift and some fancy rockers to get some serious induction on the go...

 

 

This is what I call valve overlap at TDC, clearly visible inlet valve thru the plug hole

 

 

I'll try to get some more video today, the orangey monster already sounds totally different after doing lots more adjustments and spending hours getting the shorty inlets to clear the exhaust manifolds!

 

[Triumph-V8]

As the roller rocker in picture two seems to have been already used

I would mount him and his brothers in the same way as being used before.

 

This is too much positioned left and as that should be avoided anyway

a already used and old roller rocker may be ruined soon.

 

In front of the rocker at one clip seems to be a metal sheet

that can ruin the engine when washed into the oil.

It should be taken away as long as its possible.

 

On the left the rocker seems not to lay flat on the valve,

hopefully this is an error of the photo.

 

I would not bet that this engine will last longer!

[GT]

I would not bet that this engine will last longer!

 

Any more useful comments?

I can take a bet with you, that engine is still going strong in 15yrs time.

 

TBH, the biggest fight of yesterday was to get clearance for the inlet-exhaust manifold on the other car, which proves if you REALLY want to, you WILL!

 

 

For anyone who knows anything about the development of this manifold, this is the one that gave 15ftlb of torque and a 1500rpm wider power band than anything else.

 

 

It is the first time it's ever been fitted with the "shorty" weber manifold, and it took hours and hours of modification to sort out.

 

Now you can see why!

 

[pomwah]

So, how many Ks did the old engine do?

[zelrik]

 

Goods shipped from Germany to our friends in Australia

passed the customs for free and shipping was also in limits.

All easy without problems except that I had to drive to the customs to get my goods.

 

Maybe it helps to do the shipping from Germany to Australia

if that is really the main problem.

 

I recently got a TR6 soft top frame shipped to me airfreight from Germany (via DHL) to Australia.

It was a big bulky package.

 

There were no complications at all. It got to Australia in good time. There was no duty paid at either end.

There were no additional fees & certainly no hold ups with XRay or any fanciful distractions like that.

 

I would be sceptical too that the UK is different from any other EU country with their export rules & regulations & costs - unless you were using Pinocchio Shipping Services!!!

 

Peter in Melbourne Australia

[GT6 Nick]

Mmm, Canley Classics just shipped me a replacement driveshaft for my Herald. The freight charge was 85GBP, no duty, tax, or tariffs. Now buying parts from the US, that's another matter. Oh boy.

Edited September 9, 2013 by V8 Nick

[GT]

I don't honestly see what relevance the 2 above posts have with the thread here.

 

I also don't see what relevance shipping a banal hoodframe or driveshaft can have to the more serious business of shipping a heavy old iron engine or cylinder head to the other side of the world.

 

Perhaps I'm just getting tired & stupid?

Here was the morning's work on the 3rd engine today.

 

Perhaps someone else will come along and tell me there's something wrong with it and it will last 5 minutes as well?

 

[Nick B.]

I don't honestly see what relevance the 2 above posts have with the thread here.

 

I also don't see what relevance shipping a banal hoodframe or driveshaft can have to the more serious business of shipping a heavy old iron engine or cylinder head to the other side of the world.

 

Perhaps I'm just getting tired & stupid?

Here was the morning's work on the 3rd engine today.

 

Perhaps someone else will come along and tell me there's something wrong with it and it will last 5 minutes as well?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMkzaspc19E

 

Oh yeah, that engine aint gonna last 5 minutes. Obviously you forgot to fit the pistons!

 

My educated guess on the 1500 engine is 7 times around the clock

 

Cheers

Nick

[Millstone10]

I don't honestly see what relevance the 2 above posts have with the thread here.

 

Surely you don't expect a sideways thread to stay on topic all the way through?

 

p.s. it hasn't been round the clock as the PO has changed the speedo...

Edited September 9, 2013 by Millstone10

[GT]

This week, the rear axle (original) will be done.

 

It's a howler, as are the rear axles shafts....(we tried a test cutting the engine on a jack at 200km/h and dropping out of gear)

I should have recorded the run down noises!

 

The biggest aggro is finding anyone that supplies British made rear drive shaft bearings.

Everyone in the UK and maybe elsewhere, without exception supplies chinese made crap.

 

I managed by some miracle to find some of the outer drive shaft NOS Hoffman LJ1s and genuine Torrington B168

(did you know it was a camshaft bearing for a Harley?)

 

The other total pain is finding anyone that actually stocks genuine Timken 88010/88040 pinion head bearings, and of course the genuine Timken metric-imperial convertor bearing for the reinforced type rear diff carrier (68149/68110).

[Nick B.]

 

The other total pain is finding anyone that actually stocks genuine Timken 88010/88040 pinion head bearings, and of course the genuine Timken metric-imperial convertor bearing for the reinforced type rear diff carrier (68149/68110).

 

Are you saying that the timken you get these days aren't "real" timken, but just labeled chinese tat?

 

Cheers

Nick

[GT]

The new engine is starting to work a bit more like it should.

 

 

Not being a crazy adept of webers & not having a R Road here means searching thru a limited supply of jets & emulsions, then testing it on the local hills.

It all hovered between F11 & F16 as the right way to go, then should we/shouldn't we use 50F8 idle jets or go back to 45f9?

hmmmm..

In retrospect 34mm chokes REALLY were too big!

 

Of course this is all mission impossible, because the pump is wrong, the carbs came with pick & mix everything and the engine has to do the other impossible thing, which is to run quite a hot cam and high CR around town as well as Paris traffic jams.

 

This meant looking extremely carefully at the advance curve, the idle jets, take a shot at the right compromise choke sizes while using the shorty inlet manifolds and trying to squeeze the longest trumpet into the space.

 

The total max tract length can only be about 10" but TBQH, I would rather see a long trumpet in front of the weber with a short inlet manifold, than a long inlet manifold with a short trumpet (if you get the idea).

 

In any case the engine sounds great, and with the other "good idea" I stuck a 3 rail gearbox on it with J type overdrive, using the "shorty" adaptor plate, an uprated mainshaft & a 1500 gearset with original 1200 Herald alloy b-housing, rather than the other way using a 1500 single rail OD box and a replica single rail bellhousing.

 

we checked the weight difference and the Mk4 type transmission still weighs in at 10kg lighter than the "lightweight" 1500.

 

Compared with the 1500 OD box with cast iron bellhousing it's nearly HALF the weight, never mind the much much nicer gearchange.

[GT]

Coming to the end of the Norman marathon.

2nd engine was in for a tuning session which took most of the afternoon.....

 

It was new like the last one having been run for about 1hr, so one is a little hesitant about making plugs as light as this on day 1.

 

 

This one ended up F16s and plenty more mucking with advance curves, valve clearances air correctors and various other stuff.

 

Isn't it suprising how valve clearance can be so critical when fooling around with roller rockers?

 

In the end, it came out alright but no end of head scratching.

Fortunately a nice clean car, with low mileage and everything working (except of course the absolutely stupid canley classics, 1" rear spring lowering plate, which had to be removed before I would even drive the car).

Who on earth dreams these things up?

Are they totally nuts?

 

We ran out of time so very little video this time.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRIAnBV5xz0

 

All I can say after 10 days is.

Thank goodness it's (nearly) all over and whatever you do, don't mess with the dog!