Late Gt6 3 Rail 'box With J Type Overdrive - Rebuilt

[itiejim]

For sale my rebuilt late 3 rail GT6 'box with J type overdrive.

 

Only the very last GT6s had a J type overdrive and were, I believe, also fitted with the stronger Dolomite type gears with the closer GT6 ratios. This 'box has been rebuilt by Dave Sanders at Triumph Spares, Worcester and only run for about 8 miles!

 

Being sold to make way for a type 9.

 

£350

[PollyB]

Is this still for sale?

A friend of ours needs one for a project dolomite and we owe him a favour.

[GT]

Only the very last GT6s had a J type overdrive and were, I believe, also fitted with the stronger Dolomite type gears with the closer GT6 ratios.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but not a single GT6 left the factory with J type overdrive. EVER.

I have this on good authority from the blokes at laycock....

 

There was a part number YES....

118850 (spitfire was 40, sprint was 42, dolomite was 47....so you can see it was planned for AFTER the sprint and last Spitfire Mk4....due for 74-75).

It was due to fit the early dolomite 3 rail box as a retro fit but never made it, as you can imagine the anarchy with the 3 day week/oil crisis and Heath's government in 1973

The GT6 was knocked on the head in 1973 (M reg), but a few remained in dealerships unsold and made it onto a N (74) plate, probably cos it was considered too thirsty with a 6 cylinder and wait for it...TWIN CARBURETTORS!

 

There is absolutely no truth in the rumour the gears were stronger.

They used exactly the same gear train as the Dolomite 1850, with the same weak 2nd gear thrusts & mainshaft spigot they used up until 1976.

That was the GT6 "B" box which used the same gear cut as the Mk2 but with larger syncro cones.

 

I was the first person to introduce the J type overdrive on the GT6, - strengthen the mainshaft and fit the later gears, back in 1983.

There was a right royal row with TL DEAN at that time, because he was flogging people retipped mainshafts as "uprated" ones, and I considered this totally dishonest.

 

For nearly a decade we recycled out all the old D type overdrives from Vitesse and GT6, fitting J type in them and flogging off all the D type ones for old Spitfires, because the D type has a design fault in the oil system, making it jump out on RH corners.

 

A lot of it was done at Kipping's in Coventry and we all made a jolly good living out of it.

[TIMSGT6 X 5]

Some of the Laycock people must have have been off that day, the J type indeed was put into the late GT6's if maybe primarily for export. The J type tranny and overdrive in my garage from a GT6 MK 111 would indicate some made it over before 1974.

[GT]

J type indeed was put into the late GT6's if maybe primarily for export.

The J type tranny and overdrive in my garage from a GT6 MK 111 would indicate some made it over before 1974.

Sorry, but NO GT6 was ever fitted with J type overdrive.

Try looking it up in the microfiche.

Never done. Never was a part number available, checked loads of times.

 

They never even listed TKC899 as belonging to the GT6....(http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-TKC899)

 

The one you have in garage would have been from a Dolomite 1850.

If you don't believe me check the overdrive number it will be 115847.

 

I am happy to take a bet on that one, in any case it's as good as identical.

 

The spitfire used exactly the same adaptor plate (313085) and fitted overdrive 115840.

 

Although listed as pt no 313305, and 313304 (GT6)...

I have never ever seen a 115850 unit, and I am certain there were absolutely none made, either as overdrive conversion kits or even into the production line, and I have done a few thousand.....

 

(You can also ask Dave Mcdougal, he worked on transmissions, then after in Gaydon).

We used to discuss this sort of thing a lot.

 

There is a notice here dating from april 1973, but by the time the last GT6 were going together from bits it was October.

 

I have never ever seen a Spitfire fitted with J type overdrive before 1974, and even they are rare, post FH60 000.

 

Here:-

>Last one made, FH64,995 January 1974.

total Spitfires made = 70 000 in 4 years...

 

Being as they were making about 2000 a month that would mean start date late november 1973 or about 4 weeks after the last GT6s made in October-1st week Nov, and about 6 weeks prod.

(You know as well as I do, a car due for the chop is on "go slow" on the production line.)

 

Checking Pearson's pages, there is no such thing as a 313304. (late GT6 J type).

Rimmer http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID005759 idem.

 

There's probably confusion over the final facelift introduced in that year...I quote:-

"fabric upholstery, new style instruments, Sundym glass for the windows, and for the European market, servo assisted brakes."

 

That unfortunately coincided with the general introduction of the cheap russian steel throughout BL at that time, which is why every single car they made after that point, whether, MG, Triumph or Jaguar fell to bits with cancer like corrosion.

 

It's a pity, the last GT6 if fitted with the right bits and without rust are nice cars.

 

You can see, back in 1982, there was some excitement retro fitting the GT6 with a decent overdrive unit....it was less than 10 years after the end of prod, and you could still get all the bits from the Triumph Dealers.

 

FYI:-

The main reason for all that, was the arrival of decent tyres on the market in the late 70s/early 80s, and we could still buy Dunlop 1144 wheels (5 1/2J) off the shelf, so that used to make the D type overdrives shed their clutches all the time.

 

Sorry to disappoint you.

[GT6Steve]

Gotta agree with the above, While GT is likely correct for the home market J Types were Definately fitted to the late US cars. I bought one virtually new and was pleasantly surprised to see that modern OD. Come to think of it, I still have one and I assure you I've never purchased a TR, only Herald based cars.

[Nick Jones]

So is the OD P/no. 115850? If they all went to the US/Canadian market this would explain why they don't show up here. Suspect Jims UK one is made up from a mixture of parts - and none the worse for it.

 

At £350 it should have sold real easy......!

 

Nick

[itiejim]

Hi folks,

I'm quite satisfied that they were fitted as standard - not that originality has ever concerned me! Funnily enough I almost tripped over it in the garage today and was going to bung it on eBay.

So - it's still for sale (though only ever offered on here so far).

[TIMSGT6 X 5]

So is the OD P/no. 115850? If they all went to the US/Canadian market this would explain why they don't show up here. Suspect Jims UK one is made up from a mixture of parts - and none the worse for it.

 

At £350 it should have sold real easy......!

 

Nick

 

That is interesting, I will check for that number when I get home. I am going to assume maybe the parts from the Dolly may have been used at a factory level if D types were not available. I will try to post a picture of the layshaft, I'm sure GT would ID that right away and clear up the mystery as to it's origin.

[GT]

I will try to post a picture of the layshaft,

You mean the mainshaft or input shaft, that is the only way to ID those boxes, unless you remove the lid.

The mainshaft can ONLY be the blackish coloured TKC899 (dolomite), OR a silvery grey coloured one..

(which would be one of mine, because I had the OD splined end case hardened not chemically blacked).

 

Quite a large number of these conversions were done in 1982-1990,- as many as 20 a week at one stage....so the chances of finding an "original" one are zero.

 

Can you imagine the production organisation it took to turn around as many as that per month?

Today that is quite unthinkeable.

 

So:-

If it has a fine spline input shaft (late Dolomite), it automatically has to have a non original (silvery coloured) mainshaft.

 

If it has a coarse spline (original) input shaft, and a silvery grey mainshaft, the interior (spigot) of the input shaft has been altered and a hard steel bush let in.

That was how the majority were done to begin with, so people didn't have to change clutch plates.

 

If it has a black coloured mainshaft, AND coarse splines that is the original 1/2" (weaker) spigot bearing, and is what always wore out on the old GT6 and Dolomite.

This is the one you claim the factory fitted in late 1973.

The only advantage they had, was they didn't jump out of overdrive in fast RH corners,or the cone clutch fall apart.

 

FYI, not an ad at all.

I still sell the last dregs of those days.

I have 4-5 brand new GT6 gearboxes left*, with brand new cases, new overdrive units, the 2nd & 3rd gears I kept back from 1990, the brand new syncros, the forged steel selector hubs, and brand new laygears etc.

 

You gotta be a magpie with wrecked fingers & smashed fingernails in front of a smelly work bench 20hrs a day in that game, do I want that?

I will be so relieved when they have all gone, & all the bad memories with them.

 

(NB:- Paganini & building gearboxes don't go together, at 20% faster than the quite slow 12 notes per sec of

)

[TIMSGT6 X 5]

You are correct Sir!

The mainshaft on this has been tampered with and the unit numbers betray the year, looks like from a later spitfire and bodged together! Not an original installation!

Cheers

[GT]

For the record only:-

Here's something of what happened.

 

... by the late 80s, Papworth marched into Kippings and wanted to take over my work... (it's easy to take over something, someone had carefully built up without having to go through all the hassles of developing, marketing and testing, never mind generating the interest and the stock).

 

I had had enough by that time.

If someone else want to break their finger nails and smell 24/24 of hypoid as well as their cars, then they're welcome to it.

 

T-L Dean, finally got his act together (making stuff semi properly) then presumed to be the TSSC "expert" and racing secretary and who knows what besides....until the TSSC realised they were being conned and lots of people complained.

Where is that guy now?

Mucking about as ever?....this time on EBAY, the easy way to dispose of 2nd class rejects & other rubbish.

 

Pity because that period was the one and only time people actually had full grids racing those cars!

 

Pearson took over the remains of Kippings transmission operation, and I spawned Bastuck's transmission operations in Germany, something I very much regret in retrospect (some people have short memories).

 

I ended up working for a while for their direct competitors making the best TR5 and TR6 in the world, until Mr Schnarr, bless his "Deutschland uber alles" decided he would fire the entire workshop on a pretext...which was....poor Michael was building hopelessly bad engines....(except it wasn't his fault it was AE who had machined their pistons on the cock*).

 

Michael (now at G & S) makes excellent engines....we used to laugh all afternoon

(G du bist ein Schwein....Michael....du bist .... etc)

 

Some good times happened then...

1 massive court claim later* and Mr Schnarr pocketed the damage 60K claims, and still fired the workforce who then became G & S in Landau....

 

Both CG (Germans will know who I mean) and Bastuck figured out selling cheap crap s/s exhaust to people in Germany made in Devon with HUGE exhaust outlet pipes on Porsche 911 was as good as printing money...

 

Phoenix got hold of one of my nice french 6-3-1 from CG and started selling their nasty cr..p version of it to everyone....everyone started printing money, from Jigsaw to Turner to Pearson to Tony Dean, all claiming their input.

Who laughs last, laughs hardest?

 

FYI:-

Rainer ( i know pretty well, used to come down to Lorraine in France during the early 80s as we had French-German Vosges/Alsace driving tours together.

I walked into Gerardmer lake on one of these trips, oblivious of the dangers of people deliberately smashing bottles in the shoreline and Donate (Rainer's girlfriend at the time, who was trained as a nurse) carted me off to to the local hospital to have the massive blood and guts gashes sorted out on the pinkies.

 

H Speicher, another old friend was on that trip, (that one a chemist/Pharmacist), and he was a bit dismayed to say the least(!)....

He still has a 5 or is it 6 car Triumph motor museum!

 

Is it good to have 4 companies or more all competing & squabbling for the same diminishing market share?

Ask the TSSC?

What is it like to downsize from 25 000 members to more like 6000?

 

You don't get quality service this way, and probably not with "corporate entities" or living off the past.

Too much competition is not good for the consumer.

Too little production leads to the current Stag cylinder remake fiasco.

 

Hope no-one was offended on this one, sure as anything it paid for my lessons...and more besides..some of it was fun.

Lots of it wasn't.

 

Now if only I could still get all those TR6 and GT6 original workshop manuals in French like I did then....

 

I'm getting nostalgic or what, talking about gearboxes....when you could get a proper British made RMS8N for £1.75!

Now you can only buy Chinese gearbox bearings...