GT6MK3 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Really, I was sober when I placed the snipe. http://www.ebay.com....tm/170714193946 Part of the grand (ever evolving) long term plan for the GT6 is (now) to hand build a motor. It's something I'd never have thought I could do before I started rebuilding the GT6, and I'm sure I'll screw up along the way, but what an opportunity to buy more toys tools. Debate generally rages about whether it;s better to have the torque of a 2.5, or the zing of a 2.0 Generally, everyone champions what evers in their particular car. For my GT6, the Jigsaw (I probably paid way too much to get here) 2.5 should be a reasonably fun plugin (although opinions vary on that), but I didn't build it. It's going in as soon as I can get the EFI bits ready and finalise the bits on the driveline. I reckon it, along with all the added bits (megasquirt etc etc) it should be an interesting combination But I have a yearning to build an absolutely screaming lightened ported, polished, balanced, overbored, whateverd 2ish (2.2?) to give me a comparison, and let me decide which one works best for me. I picked up a spare 2.5 engine a while back. It's quietly been leaking oil in my garage for about 8 months. It was and is earmarked for me to pull apart a Triumph 6 to see how they fit together. I also have a spare head, it's currently doing duty as a mockup for my headers and EFI bits so I can make them fit. I know that when the tired HC/HE 2.0 comes out of my GT6, it will be a possible/probable rebuild candidate. But having another 2.0 is an attractive proposition. And so to the 2000. They were built in pretty large numbers as CKD's here in Aus, but there're starting to become hard to find. I've been lurking ebay for a Mark II 2000, or an engine from one within striking distance for a while. This one seemed waaay overpriced. So at less than half that, I didn't really expect to win with my lowball snipe. I guess you get lucky now and then. At the price I paid, I've got two options. I can keep it, do a little work, join a car club, put it on a club reg and use it as an engine test mule and comparison chassis for flipping between 2.0's and 2.5's. Or I can pull the engine and a few choice bits, have another 2.0 to help build a screamer, then sell the rest of the oh so heavy body for it's metal value (probably 75% of the cost). Sad to see it scrapped, but probably realistic. Rebuild it or grab what I want and scrap it. Either way, it seems the disease has hit. Right now, I own 4 cars, 1/2 of which are Triumphs! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millstone10 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Way to go Craig! I've been thinking about the same too, mainly as a source of UNF fixings as they are SOOOOO expensive over here (Aus). (I think that grill was used for the LeMans bonnet side vents too , never leave anything to waste when you slaughter the piggie) 2L screamer is the way to go. 6 cylinders at 7000rpm is pure music. If your going to be making any more of those fuel rails for it . are you on for making any extras... Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 If your going to be making any more of those fuel rails for it . are you on for making any extras... Nigel Thanks Nigel. 7000K? I was thinking more like 7800... If 'm going to build it, I'm going to push the boundaries. I already owe Zelrik (Peter) a set of inlets milled for Bosch injectors and a fuel rail, he's promised to reimburse expenses. It's not my shop it's Alan's so you'd need to send a serious promise of beer.... But bw do have the F/R measurements programmed in. PM me if you seriously want rail stock. I bought 4 times what I needed, have 36" still unsold that I could probably whack on ebay for more than I paid for the 64" and shipping. Happy to get out for what I paid. The prep on the rail to flat it smooth was a few hours. Then it got anodised, then rubbed back, then engraved. Lots of work. I love how it came up. Glad you like it. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofast2race Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Craig, I am about to embark on a mad 2100 engine after finally sorting some pistons that have been holding the project up. I am planning for 180+ bhp using the standard crank (plasma nitrided)and Pauter Rods (6.124" long) and 77mm custom forged pistons. I am planning on an 11.1 CR and wll be using a hybrid cam similar to Steve Attenboroughs GT6 PI. The head is complete and flows 89cfm inlet and 65cfm exhaust at 0.450" lift. It will be straight swap with my current 2500EFI engine in my saloon so induction and ignition is sorted. I will be swapping the Chris Witor 6-3-1 for a mild steel version copied from a Mike the Pipe original. Looking forward to putting this one together and have good hopes that I can get a relatively high torque / high revving motor in my staid old saloon My inspiration was driving Nigel Gairs screaming 2000 on the CT RBRR a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hah.... big saloon, waddya know..... I think you may have the beginnings of a problem there. We call it Triumph Hoover Syndrome (THS) here in the UK. There is no known cure, although a lack of storage and fierce management keeps it under some sort of control in my case...... Looks much too good to break though you should be aware that the 2L autos are endowed with performance akin to a glacier. I'd say a torquey 2.5 and tall gearing for a saloon and screaming 2L (ish) for the GT6. I'd be the first to agree that Nigels car sounds wonderful.... we spent some time in the tunnels with it on the 2009 10CR, including a game of dueling 6-pots (like dueling violins but louder, much louder) at some traffic lights (also in a tunnel), but it does seem to take some rowing along in the mountains. Admittedly the poor thing was carrying 3 big lads in addition to the built in 250 - 300kg penalty. Think it was a bit quieter this year? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofast2race Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hah.... big saloon, waddya know..... I think you may have the beginnings of a problem there. We call it Triumph Hoover Syndrome (THS) here in the UK. There is no known cure, although a lack of storage and fierce management keeps it under some sort of control in my case...... Looks much too good to break though you should be aware that the 2L autos are endowed with performance akin to a glacier. I'd say a torquey 2.5 and tall gearing for a saloon and screaming 2L (ish) for the GT6. I'd be the first to agree that Nigels car sounds wonderful.... we spent some time in the tunnels with it on the 2009 10CR, including a game of dueling 6-pots (like dueling violins but louder, much louder) at some traffic lights (also in a tunnel), but it does seem to take some rowing along in the mountains. Admittedly the poor thing was carrying 3 big lads in addition to the built in 250 - 300kg penalty. Think it was a bit quieter this year? Nick Nigels car was running a 3.7 diff this year - the 4.1 I sold him many many years ago (out of a 64 saloon!) finally needed some resealing attention. Hence the 'relative' lack of go - he is getting max power at 6800rpm so it really needs a short diff. I maintain that he has reached the practical limit of his twin HS6's and should be looking at multipoint EFI or Dellorto's - he also "only" runs a Kent TH5 cam and about 10:1 CR and we know there are better cams out there (Steve A's example for instance) I'm under no illusion that my 2100 saloon won't be the fastest around but the challenge of a sweet, high revving, powerful (and hopefully bullet proof) six pot has been a "must do" thing for years. About 17 years ago I built a 2000PI on an extremely low budget and that was great fun - now I want to do it properly. I could always put it in the Herald - mounted like Steve A's - :whistling: :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I'm under no illusion that my 2100 saloon won't be the fastest around but the challenge of a sweet, high revving, powerful (and hopefully bullet proof) six pot has been a "must do" thing for years. About 17 years ago I built a 2000PI on an extremely low budget and that was great fun - now I want to do it properly. I could always put it in the Herald - mounted like Steve A's - :whistling: :woot: Now that might be entertaining..... think you might need a Troy Beros back-end to go with it though Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Nigel's car is a huge inspiration I remember when he took me out in it a few years ago — they could hear it screaming past on the M25 from The Plough It's my dream to have something that sounds as good or better — I reckon I'm almost there (in my humble opinion) Mental induction noise is my next goal to add to the harmony — thus ITBs Not quite sure it's as fast yet though… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millstone10 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 " after finally sorting some pistons that have been holding the project up" Are these by any chance the fabled GT forged pistons? Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofast2race Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Are these by any chance the fabled GT forged pistons? Pictures Unfortunately not but those will end up in my white PI when they arrive . I sourced these from Wishbone Classics as I need to get this engine built at Christmas as it is the only time I get decent days off in a row. The current engine is using oil at an embarrassing rate http://www.wishboneclassics.com/content/wbc-triumph-tr250-tr6-forged-piston-sets They will be made with a 1.120" pin height that will give me +0.006" deck clearance. I have measured the crank centreline to top of (skimmed) block as 8.734" so minus 1.496 (haft the stroke) and minus 6.124 (rod length) and + 0.006" = 1.120" They should slot straight in and give the deck clearance I want with no more work - the beauty of CNC - also using shorter 2.25" gudgeon pin weighing 76g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millstone10 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Thanks for the details Andy. Does this mean you have given up on the Mazda/Lazer piston solution over there in WA? I'm pretty intrigued by the comment on a copied "Mike the Pipe Original". Ive about had enough of my Pheonix system. Spent a day trying to remove it last weekend for an oxygen sensor. More blood sacrifice on the Triumph. Nigel (sorry for the thread drift Craig) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofast2race Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Thanks for the details Andy. Does this mean you have given up on the Mazda/Lazer piston solution over there in WA? I'm pretty intrigued by the comment on a copied "Mike the Pipe Original". Ive about had enough of my Pheonix system. Spent a day trying to remove it last weekend for an oxygen sensor. More blood sacrifice on the Triumph. Nigel (sorry for the thread drift Craig) Well you can't easily get the Mazda pistons any longer and they seem a bit weak at anything over 11:1 CR which is where I'm probably heading with my next iteration of my 2.7 PI - ie forged pistons running 11.5CR, steel rods and flywheel and a different head / cam combination - the last two already obtained from GT The 6-3-1 is basically a copy made last year of a Mike the pipe original - see photo -the one that is incomplete is a copy of the Mike Randell made one that was made in the 90's - GT's exhaust man did it as a one off. Its going to replace the Witor 6-3-1 I currently have on my everyday road car although I'd be interested to test them back to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Well, there you go, Craig. After ten years of 2.5 torque from the engine in SofS (it started in Old Blue) it was getting rattly, and I'm taking it out. Almost ready to go in is a new 2 litre screamer (I hope). So next year we'll be able to compare notes. The bugger is that I was forced to make it a 2, to comply with CSCC regs which for next year will no longer say the "original engine" that kept me out of the Swinging 60s series. They will now insist on "original block". It coulda been another 2.5! Anyway, screamer experiment starts this winter! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofast2race Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 It is a strangely compelling quest isn't it - everyone says a 2.5 is quicker but theory says a 2000 will make about the same bhp - and sound wonderful in the process - and you don't need to buy a steel crank to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 2 is the new 2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Soooo... After lot's of miscommunication I'm finally off in the morning to pick up my first big (triumph) saloon. I suspect I've got bad news for it. My original plan when I bided on it was to keep it as a mobile dyno, by joining the local Triumph car club, whacking it on a Club Rego, and having it as an occasional engine test car under the club rego scheme. Sadly, the club rego scheme has been deregulated by the guvinmunt here. So, for some reason, the Triumph club have stepped in and regulated it. Minimum 6 months as a member, minimum attendance requirements, and other stuff before you can register a Triumph as a Triumph Club car. I have no off road storage, so can't park it on the road without at least club reg. Ironically, the Triumph Car Club of Victoria, a club designed to keep Triumphs on the road and running, will be the main reason it'll be easier to pull the engine and some valuables, and sell the rest for scrap. Crazy. So, sadly, tomorrow afternoon, the body and bits other than the engine will most likely face the crusher. Sad really, wouldn't be the first time I've said to an old dog " Hey old Boy'Girl, wanna got out hunting in you favourite forest?" and not have them return, but I'm at a loss to find a better way, C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ.Lintern Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 So can't you just register it as normal like your GT6? How about a Triumph breakers - surely they'd be interested in the remaining bits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Borrowed my mate Ward's forby and tandem, and headed on down the coast. No one home when I got there, but the keys were in the ignition. Hope I got the right address. Interesting loading it onto the trailer solo, fortunately it fired straight up. I've been tossing up between labelling this photo "All the way home some prick in a Triumph 2000 kept tailgating me.", or "It just followed me home Mum, honest! Can we keep it, please, please? I'll look after it, I promise!" I'd like to say it's safely home, awaiting restoration, but while it's in pretty good nick for what it is, there's a little too much rust, and just too many years of being left outside, so it's currently cowering amongst the crash victims and half cuts out the back at Toyospares. I'll do my best to save the good bits, this one's definitely a keeper (works too!) A.J., I'm already paying full rego on three vehicles, that's over AU$2000 a year (over 1300 quid in UK terms), plus another AU$1700 to insure them (despite being over 45, with a clean license and only 1 at fault claim in 25 years. Bloody kangaroo!) Club reg plus 3rd party cover would be about $270, full reg with a roadworthy and 3rd party would run close to $1000. Just too much, considering I need every cent for the GT6. Maybe the next one. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hmm, you should probably write to the bloody club and explain why their policy has killed another Triumph Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Can we keep it, please, please? I'll look after it, I promise! No wonder Mum never let me keep any of the strays, Probably best if the purists look away. Went out to the wrecking yard, had a chat with Ward about which way to go. A quick check under and around her showed a fair bit of tinworm, probably too much to save her for the road. So, since piggy was going to slaughter, how best to gain back what she'd cost. The long road: spend 5 -8 hours, strip everything carefully, gather up a few boxes of bits, spend a while ebaying/hocking them. The short road, salvage the jewels, then hack and slay to get what I want, salvage the scrap. I've seen Ward do both, according to the vehicle in question. It was a simple choice, sentiment or dollars. I think it was also a bit of a test. I spent 20 minutes carefully stripping out the gauges and radio, with their wiring, Then I lay them on the floor, reconnected them (wouldnt start without them) and drove it, (note, no longer "her") over the hoist for it's last journey under it's own steam. Too many panels were corroded or dinted, too much brightwork was tarnished, too many lenses were cracked. But the engine was sound, unsmoky, and sounded lovely. I ran it up till it was nice and warm. Then, up on the hoist it went, and within 70 minutes, using spanners, knives, prybars, a demo saw, a forklift, and a few choice words, I'd ripped it's still ticking (beating?) heart out whole. The auto tranny went in the alloy bin, the radiator went in the copper bin, and that settled my bill with Ward (apparently I'd passed the test).. The hulk went onto the yard then onto a trailer via forklift, and then scored me 3/4 of the purchase price as scrap metal. I put a slab of coldies in the fridge before I left. In all,not being sentimental meant the running, not smoking, long engine complete with ancillaries ran me $105, 3 hours driving, an hour and a half in the workshop, and a slab of beer. I also got a period radio, and some gauges. And I salvaged a number plate to add to my collection of former cars I've owned. Vale "Craig's 71 2000 Mkii". May your heart (when transplanted) beat on strong and long. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofast2race Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 No wonder Mum never let me keep any of the strays, Probably best if the purists look away. Went out to the wrecking yard, had a chat with Ward about which way to go. A quick check under and around her showed a fair bit of tinworm, probably too much to save her for the road. So, since piggy was going to slaughter, how best to gain back what she'd cost. The long road: spend 5 -8 hours, strip everything carefully, gather up a few boxes of bits, spend a while ebaying/hocking them. The short road, salvage the jewels, then hack and slay to get what I want, salvage the scrap. I've seen Ward do both, according to the vehicle in question. It was a simple choice, sentiment or dollars. I think it was also a bit of a test. I spent 20 minutes carefully stripping out the gauges and radio, with their wiring, Then I lay them on the floor, reconnected them (wouldnt start without them) and drove it, (note, no longer "her") over the hoist for it's last journey under it's own steam. Too many panels were corroded or dinted, too much brightwork was tarnished, too many lenses were cracked. But the engine was sound, unsmoky, and sounded lovely. I ran it up till it was nice and warm. Then, up on the hoist it went, and within 70 minutes, using spanners, knives, prybars, a demo saw, a forklift, and a few choice words, I'd ripped it's still ticking (beating?) heart out whole. The auto tranny went in the alloy bin, the radiator went in the copper bin, and that settled my bill with Ward (apparently I'd passed the test).. The hulk went onto the yard then onto a trailer via forklift, and then scored me 3/4 of the purchase price as scrap metal. I put a slab of coldies in the fridge before I left. In all,not being sentimental meant the running, not smoking, long engine complete with ancillaries ran me $105, 3 hours driving, an hour and a half in the workshop, and a slab of beer. I also got a period radio, and some gauges. And I salvaged a number plate to add to my collection of former cars I've owned. Vale "Craig's 71 2000 Mkii". May your heart (when transplanted) beat on strong and long. C. Get the diff out - 3.7 ratio - worth $200 to any Stag owner - probably more on a good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Get the diff out - 3.7 ratio - worth $200 to any Stag owner - probably more on a good day Too late she cried Next time. I did consider it on this one, but the dropping the four rusty propshaft bolts took at least half of the hoist time, and the thought of the dropping the other 8 on the driveshafts and then working my way around the mounts scared me off. If I'd known it was valuable I'd have made an effort to harvest it. Live and learn, I'm happy to have got out cheaply. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelrik Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Get the diff out - 3.7 ratio - worth $200 to any Stag owner - probably more on a good day Hmmmm I have a couple of 3.7 diffs here - I didnt realise they had any value to anyone. Is this for Rover engined Stags or original motors? (are any still running!) Are any other diff ratios of value to other cars? I put a 3.45 out of a TC & O/D in my TR6 Peter in Melbourne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitmkIIICPH Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 RIP As long as some bits live on I guess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6MK3 Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Oh Dear. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320838587430 I seem to have purchased another engine in semi-portable form. This is becoming a habit. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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