PaulAA

Fully agree, John and I didn't want to imply that I was defending it. Alec's excellent summary underlines the short-term agenda of successive govts, for whom energy has alternately been a bargaining tool and a whip. Paul

John Not entirely an about-turn - this is a long-standing policy, described (from a slightly partisan viewpoint) here. Paul

You seem very gullible - evidently a common Brexiter affliction. Cheer up, only 42 days until you discover how completely Reich Mogg & co. have rogered you.

By what definition, Peter? The graph shows that Italy and Greece have performed exceptionally badly, but your argument that 'Europe' isn't working would only be supported if, for example, Ireland and Portugal had also shown limited or negative growth. Unsurprisingly, six of the top ten performers started from an exceptionally low base - what does this prove? Paul

Agreed Clive, but I think that even dubious sources are better than no accreditation at all. I confess that I am frustrated by quotes from the Telegraph because I feel that, as a news organisation, they have become accustomed to spinning stories to their political bias, in a way that they other broadsheets have managed to avoid. But this may only be a perception. The Pew Center, which is probably more 'independent' than most, recently undertook a study of Western European news outlets and found that the perception of bias tended to be exaggerated outside of its core readership. No great surprise there, but it emphasises that actual bias is far less than we have come to believe - an important distinction. I confess that I place more trust in The Guardian because of its presentation of news, its independence from the main press barons, its careful accreditation of sources and, of course, its reflection of some (but not all) of my views. It also scores well in trustworthiness surveys (also a Pew survey, but the relevant bits are unashamedly cherry-picked and lightly spun here). Just for a point of reference relevant to this thread, the G's Economics Editor is a solid advocate of Brexit, which provides a healthy counterpoint. Just not in the style of Asa Bennett. The AI story underlines that we are awash with 'information' that is cherry-picked, distorted and just plain made up. Without a source, however 'tainted' or biased it is, I feel we should be in the habit of questioning claims like Scooter's. Damn, I'm soap-boxing... Paul

John So, we've establish what 'Scooter' is, but AI is (in my humble opinion) a vast and ghastly spectre, which warrants a separate thread. Having been amused by the irony of Huawei's advert claiming 'double AI' at exactly the time that their espionage was revealed, AI is adopting an ever more sinister overtone. Musk isn't funny. He is as dangerous in his unpredictability as Trump. His one virtue was his open ridicule of One Idea Zuckerberg and his unconstrained dabbling in AI, but it appears (to the lay observer) that OpenAI's work has the potential to be far more damaging than Facebook's. It creates the structure for the entire abandonment of verifiable fact. Yet further evidence of the utter folly of Man, intent on destroying himself and his future. Paul

Scooter doesn't do verifiable sources. He makes stuff up (or, just as bad, quotes the Telegraph) to provoke a reaction, which itself provokes a counter reaction. And before we know it, his BS has acquired, in certain quarters, the veil of fact. Paul

Stop being so negative Paul

John It's amusing how it becomes apparent that these judgemental old bu88ers were just as much rascals in their younger days as the youth of today. My father's selection of drinking stories come from his life after demob, a life spent - so to speak - in beer (Mitchells and Butlers, Whitbread, then Hook Norton). But perhaps I should consign them to another thread, so as not to undermine the seriousness of Rod's subject. Dad's one story about Malta, from later in the war, was very sobering and concerned the malnutrition caused by the blockade. He was horrified that the only well-nourished people he saw on the (several) occasions they put into port there were Orthodox priests. Paul

Alternatively, Nick, you could be creative with two of the other Tree Stumps, thus:

That point of view depends on which religion you subscribe to. I believe the 'add water and mix well' approach is central to the Pastafarian faith. Paul Edit: Rod got that line in first! Always helps to read the whole thread before trying to be funny...

Really, I don't know what all the fuss is about. With more than a month to go to B-Day, Foxy Liam has signed independent trade deals with: - China - Eastern & Southern Africa - Faroe Islands - Israel - Palestinian Authority - Switzerland That's 13% of the UK's trade in the bag, accounted for mainly by imports from China. And it only took two years to get there. So at this rate, the rest should be done by around lunchtime in 2032. But let's be positive - Faroe Island sweaters are safe. Paul

Much like my father, who volunteered as soon as he was eighteen in '44. He joined the Navy and trained in one of the first groups of radar operators and served on HMS Boxer while she was used as a Fighter Direction Ship. He was well on his way to the Far East on VJ Day and his and the crew's elation at the announcement of the cessation of hostilities is the only aspect of his service life he ever recounts. He loved the sea and one of his deepest regrets has always been that he allowed his mother to bully him onto leaving the Navy and taking a 'proper' job as soon as he had completed three years' service. My uncle, on the other hand, was a tank driver, I believe with the Royal Warwickshires (unconfirmed - he passed away when I was young and sadly I don't recall ever meeting him when he was sober). However, he landed on Sword on D Day+2 and made his way through to the Rhineland, where he celebrated VE Day with his crew and some purloined wood spirit. He woke up three days later back in England, recovering from severe alcoholic poisoning. Most unfortunately, the rest of his crew did not. Paul

I've not been to the UK for some months - I didn't realise that Remainers now have to display an identifying symbol.

Thanks, Chris. Re-reading the sequence, clearly my error for not grasping the obvious!