mk2vitesses Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 For MS2 you don't actually need to use the "extra" code as ignition control is present in the "standard" B & G code. This is in contrast to the MSI where extra code is needed for sparks. This is not a reason not to use the extra code, merely an observation. As Simon observes, things have got alot more complicated in the last few years, with many more possible options. I'm using one of the later versions of the MS2 B & G code (V2.89 I think) which works just fine. This does everything I need so I haven't explored the extra code possibilities for MS2 yet. The only thing I miss from the extra code I used on MSI is over-run fuel cutoff - not a big deal. If you want to be able to bung one of my configs straight in then you'll need to use the same firmware. You do need to make sure that the interface software (I use Eric Fahlgrens Megatune because it was the best when I started playing this game) is configured to match the firmware version. This is reasonably straightforward with Megatune - can't speak for the others as I've not tried them. Andy T is using the same version as I am I think and has even figured out how to use the autotune function..... Sounds like you will be running well before me..... but then my old lump is hanging on in there apart from the odd puff of smoke.... it now has to survive the HCR Nick Hi Nick, does the "stanard code" support wasted spark ignition for a six pot engine. I assumed that I would have to use the extra code for this function. My own setup will simply replace megajolt ecu and provide PIP and SAW instead as well as running the injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2vitesses Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 James, Fishing around it looks like the B&G code needs to work with an external system like EDIS, to run with it's own coil drivers the MSEXTRA code has to be used. This bloody hard work now!!! ;D Si Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 Seems that way, tell you what... I do enjoy learning new stuff... but this feels like hard work It's when I read about using oscilloscopes to check dwell and stuff... eek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2vitesses Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Well the system is designed to be low tech, should not need a scope (but I have one!). The dwell is set to 3.5ms from what I read, it should be no big deal. Have finished construction of unit, pending coil driver bits. How is the end plate fileing going? ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveNotSoSideways Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 After a while if youve the aptitude you'll just start thinking in "that way", then nothing seems hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 It was something about recovery time and not burning out the coil drivers... I don't know... maybe I am reading too much! I will get on with the end plate tomorrow afternoon Cannot believe this is all happening so quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 Dave - I am always up for the challenge - actually I take back what I said about it being hard, it's just bloody complex! A lovely combination of software, hardware and injection/ignition theory - one on it's own is easy, but all combined and it's a steep learning curve. Loving it though! Installing and timing my cam tomorrow plus measuring my head to work out the CR for skimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2vitesses Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 What needs to be done is make a list of "your" setup, then we need to read up and make sure we have things set right. I saw a note to make sure the coil drive output is low so you don't cook the ignition coils! That is the worst things get, I'm sure sombody has run up one of these engines with this setup on the MS forum. Night Night time for bed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 I found a load of template files somewhere a while back - and one of them was for a 6cyl with wasted spark and a 36-1! Why didn't I bookmark it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 You may be right about needing the extra code to drive three separate coil drivers, I've not investigated that avenue, I have EDIS....... I thought you were using EDIS James? There is some scope for setting dwell etc in the standard code but I can't see how you would control more than one coil. I'm sure you two are clever enough to figure it out, but if you get stuck, you could pop Paul Tegler a mail as he built his own coil drivers. Extra complexity, but has the benefit of elimating the need for EDIS box which is not so easy to find in 6 pot form. Of course the MS forum has loads of information too - just make sure you use the "extra" forum as it has been separated out. The main "extra" guys are actually UK based. Certainly plenty of learning incolved in MS - separates the men from the boys Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 Measured the head chamber cc this morning - 33cc which by my calculations are around 9.5 CR Going to shave off 1mm to get it up to 10.5 The head is a GT6 Mk2 or early 2.5PI Mk2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2vitesses Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 OK this is where it is kept!! http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/#download I'll get the code loaded into the CPU, you will need the manual on the lambda sensor, wasted spark. I have configured the VR for non inverted output. I think an A4 folder with those clear plasic inserts in is a must, to form your own install / config manaul for future reference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2vitesses Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Hmmmm, well it seems some of the bits I have fitted are not needed / must not be fitted. As I assumed we were going with the straight MS code. ??) The V3 PCB build using MSEXTRA is different! Ho Hum. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 James, nice to meet you today and see your saloon. Wish I'd remembered about this thread - I'd have asked you to pop the bonnet & show me. Must have been thinking too much about mine ... or perhaps it's the Alzheimer's? I've only just realised your avatar changes from time to time! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveNotSoSideways Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Hopefully you are calculating the skim needed via the distance from the head face to the fluid level / fluid in the chamber needed to give the new required CC? Thats the best way? Work out the required CC, pump that fluid into the chamber then measure the distance from the head face to the fluid via a mic and a straight edge, the head must be completely flat via a digital level, or I-Phone ap. As the squish isnt vertical obviously the chamber CC drops off quickly for each thou of an inch on the first few skims when the chamber is actually a larger diameter. So the more you skim the more you need to skim to get the same CC change as the more you skim the less area there is left for the next one. So when someone says you gotta skim 0.020" of it etc, they are making a generalisation which has no real relevance when it so easy to actually work it. You might know this already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 That's how I did it Dave - it's bloody hard to measure liquid against a flat edge! I will admit that 1mm is an approximate based on my attempt - it is at least a safe bet! I will measure again when it comes back from the skim - or else I may ask the head person to check my measurements. Believe it or not Picton's many years of skimming heads and working by rule of thumb - he told me he reckoned the head was 9.5:1 based on what he took off it (it's a 2.5 head) - he was totally right! Richard - nice to meet you - there is nothing to see whatsoever under the bonnet at the moment - I'm sure you'll see the car around Picton's place at some point. Estimated schedule is a few weeks to get the engine in and running on HS6s. I'll be wiring up the MegaSquirt in stages, first for all the sensors, then the ignition and then finally injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2vitesses Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 MS2 Extra code written to ECU, Megatune showing signs of life!!!!! That's it for today! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 Well here it is, popped over to pick it up from Simon this afternoon. Seems to be communicating fine with my laptop via it's USB adapter running under Windows 7 - which surprised me! Not sure the MegaStim is working though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 That looks a bit different Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveNotSoSideways Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 TOYS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 Fuel rail arrived. Got to track down a saloon front plate. Though more annoying is having no tubular exhaust - Witor is all sold out... damn! 8 to 10 week waiting time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 Oops pic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 Put together the head today - Jag springs etc Chambers measure approx 30cc - so all good! No head thickness issues what so ever - it's a Mk2 GT6 / Mk2 2.5PI casting. Can anyone tell me why exhaust caps are different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 Posted photos the wrong way around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveNotSoSideways Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Nice fuel rail extrusion. Yes, I reckon Steve covered the caps ? Stock head? I always looked at the 6cyl caps as fiddly, overly complex things, but they work dunnit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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