rogerguzzi Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Hello Nick I had a bit of a play today until it started raining and blowing and got to cold with the garage doors open I had a look online to decide the flow rate for the injectors and found about 3 or 4 different answers I am using Bosch 0280115884 (Rover/MG) found 176cc , 182cc and 197cc @ 3 bar (It say PWM is not available on Microsquirt? although it shows it so I turned it of) This site has 2 values? http://www.users.interport.net/s/r/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH I had set mine at 182 so I thought if I go to 196 they will squirt a bit less? I also reduced the after start warm a lot but then had to add a bit on and it was running probably the best it has been. When I looked at the plugs they were only slightly sooty which is probably ok for idling in the garage? The new coil pack arrived today it is a slightly bigger footprint than Ford one, I think it will just fit on the bulkhead? but I was thinking (again) could I make a plate up and fit it where the distributor used to be? there is a plate now with a stop to keep the gear down(the VW ones are mounted on the cylinder head?) or I did think of hanging it on the engine side covers(aluminium) I am looking for some coil end terminals as I have about 2 1/2 sets of Mk1 ford type then I could shorten them to suit?(I have crimping tools I think? well it has 5 sets of multi size jaws so think one will do the job) Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Sounds promising. I'd probably avoid mounting the coil pack on the engine if possible (ok so mine is but it's just a dumb coil and there was nowhere else) Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hello Nick I still fancy having a look at fitting the coil on the engine as you can see from this Fleabay advert they mount it on the cam cover http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232254903419?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT So on the side of the engine would be possibly cooler? I have had a frustrating morning? I went to start the air compressor so I could blow out some parts after washing them and it would not run up to speed(It has been like this for a while) I put it down to the cold weather and a cold shed it sits in. So I thought I would change the oil (never been done? the road to HELL is paved with good intentions!) So I remove the sight glass /drain plug and this what looked like EP90/140 started oozing out? so I tilt one end up and got the hot air gun on it and it went like syrup but came out slowly. When filled with some sae 30 compressor oil I got from Aldi about ?????years ago when being sold off cheap to do a fore mentioned job! I switched it on and it burst into life and ran straight up to speed(not done that for ???? years) So all in all that passed the morning away(Good job I am retired?) What about something like this to control the idle air when cold(a bit like the choke)and use the same cable? If I try and do it via the main throttle plates it is to crude and all or nothing. Plus I could get one for £3.91 delivered from euro car parts(30% off) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302208271801?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I have ordered some 6 mm threaded x 6 mm tails to make up a manifold to feed all 4 ITB's which are all tapped 6mm but I thought perhaps keep it simple? for now Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Coil pack placement is entirely your choice. I guess the OEM placement does tend to imply a certain confidence is the robustness. My A8 has 8 COP coilpacks bolted to the cam covers although some of them have clearly been changed. VAG coilpacks do have a certain rep historically (not good) though I can't say that I'm aware of the ones you suggest being problematic. That heater valve is a very nice bit of lateral thinking - ought to work though I'm not sure how fine your control will be. And thanks for the link as I need to buy one for the actual design purpose. Have fitted an ancient one (from a Mk1 Golf!) to the Spit and it leaks! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Hello Nick I have decided to keep the coil pack on the bulkhead and I am going to get a set of plug leads made up with 90 deg ends both ends. I am going to change the MAP sensor for one of these as my set up does not give much vacuum at small throttle openings and the one I have seems to wander? http://home.kpn.nl/duran103/pics/83800551000PRTv4.pdf They can take 200% over pressure? so spit back should be ok an they are were fitted on loads of moderns. Still thinking of the idle air thing Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hello All Guess which numpty ordered the wrong plug for the coil pack?(my excuse is they look the same just that the one I ordered is smaller) But still I found one on Fleabay for £2.99 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201827808431?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Not this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181535096720?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT These people say the coil pack has to be earthed? I find that strange as the ford ones do not? and pin 4 is ground? Plus they say they give a stronger spark? http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=121 Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 That MAP sensor should work fine - though not sure what you have now but that looks like a typical pressure range so might not change performance much? To improve the "wandering", assuming you already have connections to all 4 cylinders you can damp the signal to the sensor by using "resistance" (section of MIG liner tube is good for this) and a small volume pot like a small fuel filter. I think you can also apply electronic damping within the software (you can on std MS2). Either way you need to experiment with settings so that you take out any jitter without blunting the response excessively. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Really enjoyed reading this thread Roger. I want to do something like this with an alloy tank when I get my EFI Spitfire back on the road.I see SC parts are selling a very accurate looking one now for £330 - http://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british-cars/triumph/triumph-spitfire-mkiii-mkiv-and-1500-1967-1980/fuel-pump-and-fuel-tank/fuel-tank-mk4-and-1500-from-november-1970/fuel-tank-1-140670.htmlIt'd seem a shame to cut it open immediately but at least it's less risky doing it to a new one rather than one that's already had gasoline in it.One thing you might want to keep an eye on is cooling the fuel. I found it really tricky getting the tune right because when the car had been run for 30 minutes, the fuel constantly recirculating heated up a lot and the VE table then became inaccurate. An alloy fuel tank might help but there must be some ingenious solution out there we could employ, using a heatsink or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hello Nick The Map sensor I have fitted now is a Trigger wheels one which I think is a 2.5bar or it may even be a 3bar as it came with the kit I got off Fleabay (unused) The one I am going to fit is a 105kpa and a proper make it was fitted to dozens of cars I find that the one fitted at the moment shows perhaps 80% at switch on and then creeps up?(may be faulty) but it is working on smaller voltage range? If they normally work from 0.25v to 4.75v and this is over 2.5 bar by my reckoning that would only be 1.8v and as the ITB's do not give the same sort of vacuum at low throttle/revs it must make it less sensitive? Well its worth a try? used to have one of the plastic inline filters on my Megajolt system as they said they could not stand fumes etc? so I may fit one to this set up(I have several bought a job lot for pence) Spent the day making a backing plate for the twin port K&N filter I was given so I can mount it low down and hopefully get some cool air. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Really enjoyed reading this thread Roger. I want to do something like this with an alloy tank when I get my EFI Spitfire back on the road. I see SC parts are selling a very accurate looking one now for £330 - http://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british-cars/triumph/triumph-spitfire-mkiii-mkiv-and-1500-1967-1980/fuel-pump-and-fuel-tank/fuel-tank-mk4-and-1500-from-november-1970/fuel-tank-1-140670.html It'd seem a shame to cut it open immediately but at least it's less risky doing it to a new one rather than one that's already had gasoline in it. One thing you might want to keep an eye on is cooling the fuel. I found it really tricky getting the tune right because when the car had been run for 30 minutes, the fuel constantly recirculating heated up a lot and the VE table then became inaccurate. An alloy fuel tank might help but there must be some ingenious solution out there we could employ, using a heatsink or something? Hello Richard I do not think I could do that! I just washed mine out with degreaser and washing liquid and the pressure washer(several times) then warmed it up with an old hair drier and could not smell any fumes. I have heard to many reports of Aluminium tanks failing and unless you are racing the weight saving probably not worth it? Not sure about the cooling aspect? what about some finned pipe on the return line under the car or both? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtuckunder Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Not sure about the cooling aspect? what about some finned pipe on the return line under the car or both? My V12 XJS (now gone) which had very high under bonnet temperatures routed the fuel rail return pipe through a heat exchanger linked into the air con, but also returned the fuel to a small (guessing about 1ltr) swirl pot tank just below the main tank. The main fuel supply was also taken from this pot, and the main tank just kept it topped up. I think the theory being use the returned fuel as quickly as possible mixing it with a bit of cool from the tank, rather than returning to the tank where on a long journey you would slowly raise the temperature of the whole tank to that of the return supply, which of course would be getting hotter as the supply was also getting hotter. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 My Vitesse certainly heats it's fuel on a long run, especially if the ambient is up a bit. This does cause it to lean off a bit, but the only effect is a noticeable improvement in economy (suggesting I could run it a bit leaner to begin with). The biggest aggro it causes is a tendency for the tank to overflow when you dump 2/3 of a tank of fresh fuel in on top of 1/3 of a tank of fuel at 35 - 40ºC (est). The new fuel grows rather alot as it warms and a Vitesse tank has sod-all expansion space. I really ought to re-route the return fuel line as at present it follows the original path around the engine block which gives it far too much opportunity to pick up heat. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Groves Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I have cut and welded a few fuel tanks over the last few years, admittedly they've all been absent of fuel for a while before I did them, but a good session with a very hot jet wash and that should purge them. After running EFI for a short while with the same Pump/Tank set-up as Nick's Vitesse (which worked absolutely fine), I decided to take Roger's lead and fit a Classic Range Rover pump into a spare tank. Took the opportunity to increase capacity by a couple of gallons whilst there. I guess I may get some 'advice' about pinholes in mig welding & pressure testing , but I have used a tank sealer kit from Frost which should take care of that. Pics below. I've not experienced any problems with the warming up of the fuel yet, but then again my longest journey post EFI is only about 30 minutes and the ambient temp has been pretty cool. My Fuel return doesn't get to close to the engine, so it might be OK. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Interesting. Looks good. The extra capacity will certainly be handy. What have you done about the extra support (the one that picks up on the edge of the spare wheel well) and do you think you'll still be able to get the spare wheel in and out? I contemplate tank mods from time to time but if I did do anything it would probably include moving the location to under the rear deck as Alan has done. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Groves Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I'm hoping the spare will just about wiggle in and out, here's hoping....I'll be stocking up on tins of tyre weld if not. I've never used that extra support on the Vitesse tank and not had an issue, just used the ones around the seam. I removed it from this tank when I cut the side off, so will probably just beef up spire nuts to carry the extra weight. I can always put something through the boot floor as a support if I think it needs it. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Hello All A bit more progress? I have fitted the new(used)MAP sensor and now I can suck on the hose and it moves up and down the scale easily without my eye balls popping out! I have managed to fit the K&N filter so it should get cooler air? The car seems to start and idle better now I have replaced the MAP sensor (I do not think I have altered anything else?) So the next challenge will be the idle air circuit? I have ordered some tails and a piece of square aluminium so I can make a manifold and the use the bypass ports on the throttle bodies so in theory they all get the same amount? Hello Darren I do not have a pin 35 for the Tacho out? the only choices are IGN(JS10) 1AC1 1AC2 JS11 FIDLE D14 D16 D15 AD06/JS5 AD07/JS4 I have tried them all (not IGN(JS10 causes a conflict) and not a flicker from the rest? I may try the 2 diode fix from the coil trigger when I wire the VW coil pack If that does not work I will send for a electronic mech like I fitted to my brother in laws TR6(Mega Jolt) Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Groves Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Hi Roger, No Tacho out? It's a Green/Yellow wire, even the v2 Microsquirts had them according to the Megamanual. I guess you'll have option but to pick-up from the coil as you say. If it's any use, here's a link to the thread about my rev counter: http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/7349-microsquirt-rev-counter/ Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hello All A bit more progress(that light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter or that B*****y locomotive is getting closer?) I thought i would have a look at the Fidle valve(idle air) so I did a temporary lash up so I could try it 1) To see if it worked(Fleabay special) 2) to try and understand the software settings. So after a bit of messing about I got it to open and close then I reread all the instructions I could find and found if I told it about 30 to 34% PWM Idle duty it was closed(slight leakage? but I assume that is normal?) Then 70/75% was wide open, so it looks as though it works ok at 92Hz but it also worked at 62Hz but buzzed more but at 124Hz and 153Hz smoother buzzing? but the instruction said Bosch are 50Hz to 100Hz? Question does it make much difference?(way out of my comfort zone now?) So then I had a play about with the engine being started and I could see it opening to about what I asked and then started to close! all at 92Hz So now I just have to complete the plumbing(when I get the 6mm tails from china?) I have modified the valve so I can mount it on the air filter back plate without a rubber hose connection and all the air will come from the same place? and a bit neater for me Still no joy with the Tachometer I know its pin 35 in the loom but which setting in the Basic/load settings after enabling Tacho output (as in the previous post) Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Did you note the comment recently here....... http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/7428-pwm-idle-valve-set-up-and-temperature-readings/page-2 (post 25) ......about the need for a diode to get the IAC to behave properly? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hello Nick Yes I have fitted a diode and it all seemed quite smoothish Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Groves Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hi Roger, Neat solution for the Idle Valve. Mine allowed a little air at fully closed as well, I had to closed the TB a bit to compensate. The general consensus for the Frequency was to set it at 3 in Tunerstudio, which is 105Hz. I have the diodes now but been busy fitting the new tank so haven't tried yet. There are some more Tacho settings in extended or advanced, one of those anyway, sorry not near my laptop so can't check. When using Pin 35 direct to the tacho I used to get a low reading and it maxed out at around 1100rpm. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Groves Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Roger, Tacho settings: Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Groves Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Interesting. Looks good. The extra capacity will certainly be handy. What have you done about the extra support (the one that picks up on the edge of the spare wheel well) and do you think you'll still be able to get the spare wheel in and out? I contemplate tank mods from time to time but if I did do anything it would probably include moving the location to under the rear deck as Alan has done. Nick The good news is that the spare wheel does still fit, it's still one of the original rims with 145 tyre, actually had room to spare. The new in-tank pump is much quieter that when on the outrigger, so a good result all round. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Hello Darren It looks as if Triumph had fitted it? I notice your car registration starts ULH which is strange considering that we are both fitting EFI because mine also starts ULH but ends in X were as yours is F? Now what are the odds of that? I had not had much time to mess with Spitty today(poorly daughter and 2 grandchildren to amuse?) I had time to finish the idle air manifold I am going to mount it on the engine side cover halfway along so the outlet pipes will all be similar length and coupled to idle valve with solid copper pipe. The only problem I have is the 6mm hose barb,s are to short in the throttle bodies so they do not block off the built in idle bypass so I will have to make some that reach to the bottom of the hole the same as the adjuster screws so the air only goes to the down stream side of the butterflies. I have emailed Marco about the tacho conversion to see if anybody else has fitted one to Microsquirt. So I am getting there slowly and I think I understand a bit more of how it all works now(Good I was naive?) probably just as well? Still as you can all see I do like a challenge just for the hell of it? Several people have asked my why I am doing it? I say why not and if you have to ask you do not understand? Roger ps peaceful now all asleep Vino time for Grandad I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 "If you have to ask you won't understand" just about sums it up I think Special nutters RUS....... Nice tank Darren - how much does it hold? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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