Optimum 4cyl head?

[RealWorld]

Doncaster I'm afraid Neil - maybe I could post the whole thing - wrap it in brown paper of somat.

You're always welcome to collect...

 

I think we're currently friendly with the East Yorks massive, but I'll check with union HQ before sending peace parcels...

[spitNL]

I have spoken to Peter Burgess today and he is sending me a big inlet valve.

 

Will be interesting to see the results.

It already flows almost as much as your modified 6 cylinder head in the DIY head thread.

Plus it's showing much more improvement than one of those heads.

 

74.5 -> 88 cfm

vs

64.5 -> 80.1 cfm

for the 4 cylinder

 

F.

[ncoll]

Doncaster I'm afraid Neil - maybe I could post the whole thing - wrap it in brown paper of somat.

You're always welcome to collect..

I think we're currently friendly with the East Yorks massive, but I'll check with union HQ before sending peace parcels...

Hi Richard

We are actually not in east yorkshire, but in north lincolnshire, i would appreciate it if you could post it as i am a little bit busy at the moment, its alright to fold it in half. I will reinburse you obviously for the postage. If thats okay i will PM you my address

 

neil

[ncoll]

Hi Frederick

This graph shows the spit head with bigger valve in versus the DIY head+ that i have recently finished for someone. The + bit means the chambers are polished, the exhaust ports are polished and the inlet ports have a coarse matt finish., other than that it is as the DIY head on this forum.The other one is the road version of the race head as supplied to people like him who must not be mentioned ( Mr Upyours).  Someway to go with the spit head yet, but probably with a few mods to the chamber and peters valve that i know will be a good shape (thanks Pete) i am hoping that we may get a little closer to the DIY head. Before that i must get on with the little SE head.

neil

 

[ncoll]

 

DIY/ economy + head, before i painted it

neil

 

 

 

[popeye]

Hi Neil,

Here is just a suggestion. Before the fitting and test the big 37.5 valve, it should be interesting to test the large MKIV inlet valve: 36.5.  :X

I often read bigger valve than the large MKIV was useless and flowed less. I am not a professional: but someone like you, Neil,  is able to tell us if it is a good point (or no) to fit bigger valve than 36.5.  : :

At last: congratulations for your job  8) 8)

[spitNL]

Look great Neil 8)

Thanks for showing.

 

In the first picture, it looks like the exhaust valve guide doesn't extend into the port?

[RealWorld]

If thats okay i will PM you my address

 

Sure Neil, no problem. PM an address and I'll sort it for you.

 

Richard

 

[ncoll]

Hi Popeye

Yes i can do that if somebody would send me a valve, i'll do the work and publish the results on the forum. The other thing is i have only two more inlet ports left on this head, so soon i shall be needing another cylinder head, if anybody has one at a reasonable price i will buy.

neil

 

 

Realworld: PM sent

 

Hi Frederick

Correct, the guides don't go right through as on some of the standard heads that i have received they don't go all the way through. I suppose i could press them in further,but i should have to make another spacer up to set them to a lower height above the head. If i get chance tomorrow, i'll take some photo's of the parts that i use to fit the guides. It will explain better than me trying to write about it.

 

 

neil

[Guest]

ncoll ive got a 1500 [and or a 1300] head you could play with, but i'd need it back eventually

i'm 30m from sunny scunny too!

ed

[RealWorld]

Neil

 

Gasket in post today - please excuse the 'recycled' packaging

 

Forget the postage - enjoy the Payen..

 

Richard

[spitNL]

Hi Frederick

Correct, the guides don't go right through as on some of the standard heads that i have received they don't go all the way through. I suppose i could press them in further,but i should have to make another spacer up to set them to a lower height above the head. If i get chance tomorrow, i'll take some photo's of the parts that i use to fit the guides. It will explain better than me trying to write about it.

 

neil

Thanks for explaining, Neil.

 

I thought you might have done it to improve the flow.

Do you mean that not all the Triumph 6 cylinder heads have the guides installed at the same height?

How can you tell how far you have to press them in? -stepped guides?

 

 

popeye, I'm not sure what installing a mk4 valve in a 1500 head will show.

Because the valve itself might not be the reason for the lower flow of the mk4.

I would think the lower flow would be in the port, also the mk4 head might not flow less at all.

I think you would need a mk4 head and valve to be sure.

 

Cheers,

 

Frederick

[Nick Jones]

On the 6 cyl engines the inlet and exhaust valve guides are different lengths.  The exhaust is longer but still sits flush with the top of the port due to a strange step in the roof of the port.  This is what you see in Neils picture.  I always get the urge to hack it back but the books say not to...... so I haven't.... so far  

 

Nick

[GHR630]

Installed heights for valve guides on 6 cylinder engines are detailed in the WSM. The early narrow heads have guides installed higher than the later heads. Be careful not to use the early dimension or high lift cams can make the valve spring retainer hit the top of the guide , dislodging it if you are unlucky. Ask me how I know!!

 

 

[popeye]

HI Neil,

I have a prepared head: the basis a MKIII head. The chamber were reshaped, the ports and the valve are the MKIV size. The inlet valves are very thin as the Peter Burgess website: but I don't where they come from. For your test: I can removed one of the inlet valve send it to you. But of course, you will have to send it back to me in France. If you are agree: you can contact me by mail to let me know your adress.

 

Hi Frederic,

I am not a specialist about the way to modified a cylinder head. But I remember GT told the best valve size was the MKIV (similar to the TR6) engine. In an old Leyland race manual: the race head used the 36.5 valve too. For the same port modification: I think to test the MKIV valve will show if it is usefull to fit bigger than 36.5 or if too large valve will flow less... is it a stupid idea :

 

I join a picture of combustion chamber of my cylinder head as it is a 1300 head: the chambers are far less deeper than a TKC1155. It might modify the flow too.

All the comments are welcome  

[spitNL]

Hi Frederic,

I am not a specialist about the way to modified a cylinder head. But I remember GT told the best valve size was the MKIV (similar to the TR6) engine. In an old Leyland race manual: the race head used the 36.5 valve too. For the same port modification: I think to test the MKIV valve will show if it is useful to fit bigger than 36.5 or if too large valve will flow less... is it a stupid idea?

Not at all.

I thought you wanted confirmation that a big valve mk4 head flowed less, hence my comment about the valve not making sense in a 1500 to confirm this.

But if you want to look at valve comparisons I agree, a mk4 valve would complete the picture.

 

Cheers,

 

Frederick

[popeye]

Hi Frederic,

Yes to compare the inlet valve size will allow to kow what the optimal inlet diameter is.

Kas Kastner used 36.5 on a tkc1155.

In an old article: Peter Burgess explained it was useless to go bigger 36.5

Nevertheless: some bigger valve are available. Why ?

[ncoll]

Neil

 

Gasket in post today - please excuse the 'recycled' packaging

 

Forget the postage - enjoy the Payen..

 

Richard

 

Hi Richard

received gasket this morning, many thanks. if our paths should cross i will buy you a pint. I have managed to secure a permit with limited access into the east and northern districts of the workers republic to attend the hill climb at olivers mount  in scarborough at the beginning of may 2010. Negotiations are taking place at the moment for access to travel to elvington later in the year.

 

 

all the best

neil

[spitNL]

In an old article: Peter Burgess explained it was useless to go bigger 36.5

Nevertheless: some bigger valve are available. Why ?

Peter Burgess himself even sells bigger 37.5mm valves.

Maybe views have changed, or people simply demand bigger valves, thinking they are better.

 

I have managed to secure a permit with limited access into the east and northern districts of the workers republic...

For a moment I thought you were going to the people's republic of China. ;D

 

 

For those of you who, like me :B, have never heard of olivers mount, here's a tour of the circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SesEK25xXYE

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS7aUSbesRo&feature=related

 

Are you going to compete Neil, or are you perhaps going to watch your nephew?

Anyway, hope you have a great time.

 

Cheers,

 

Frederick

[DaveNotSoSideways]

I had

 

38.1mm Inlet.

31.75mm exhaust.

 

 

 

[DaveNotSoSideways]

That Mini needs some more work Much shorter ratios

[DaveNotSoSideways]

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Nutters  

[spitNL]

I had

 

38.1mm Inlet.

31.75mm exhaust.

 

Where did you get them, Barry?

 

 

Bonkers! those bikes are as much in the air as they are on the ground.

[ncoll]

These are some of the tools that i use to remove and refit valve guides. The other pic shows how it is set up ready to press the guide in. The guide is lightly pressed into the head finger tight and square, then the aluminium tube is fitted, this is just a piece of aluminium bar bored out to the size to fit over the guide, the length is the height i want the guide to be above the spring platform. The next tool is a cylinder head bolt, this is machined so it fits inside the valve guide, you will see a washer on it, which is used as a stop. When i am pressing the guide in, this will come down and touch the spacer. valve guide now set at required height.

 

neil

 

 

[ncoll]

Hi Frederick

No i am not competing, i haven't competed since 2000, i go up to Olivers mount 3 x times a year, there is usually one or two competing who have cylinder heads modified by me. This is a sad end to one of them

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My nephew will be competing in Northern saloon and sports car championship this year, but the new engine won't be ready until probably May so he will have to use last years engine. I myself have been threatening to make a return for several years now, all the parts i have were originally for a nova, but unfortunately the car couldn't wait and is now deceased. I also have a corsa that is patiently waiting but i am hoping it will be this year when i start building it.

neil