GLarsen Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi guys I'm trying to put together my own kit for a ventilated brake disc upgrade on my TR6 and I've come up with two possible solutions for the caliper but I'm struggling a bit with finding some stock ventilated discs A couple of guys over on the 6-pack forum have been very helpful and if I was in the US I could have purchased a set of Toyota Cressida 1986 and newer that would fit with some very small modifications, apparently, however finding those over here seem to be very difficult and buying them in the US and have them shipped across the pond ..... it would be cheaper to buy the ventilated discs that Moss sells and I don't want "special" stuff. I'm not a fan of cross drilled discs and I would prefer to get some bone stock discs in case I need to replace them at some point One alternative that has been suggested is VW Corrado discs, they need some more machining to fit but is an option if I can't find something else For calipers I will either use 4 pot Toyota calipers from a Land Cruiser or Hi Lux pickup http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/xref?s=47750-60021&mE=on or if those becomes too expensive to find here I may go for this kit and have my stock calipers widened http://www.burtonpower.com/m16-brake-caliper-spacer-kit-front-vent-discs-brk008.html Yes I know there are high end vented disc conversions available but even though I consider the stock TR& brakes to be only "adequate" I'm not prepared to pay silly money for something that in my case wouldn't be used to it's full potential, but I need something a bit better than the stock TR6 brakes. So does anyone know of any discs from a European sold car that will fit with some reasonable machine work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Bit better in what way? If you don't use the car hard then the standard brakes are enough. Use Mintex 1144 pads for normal to "spirited" road use and maybe Mintex 1155 or Ferodo DS 2500 pads for hard road use. If you are determined to go to vented discs then you could use these M16W calipers which are basically the same as the stock ones, but wider for 20mm vented discs, so no need for spacer kits. If you have a later TR6 with M16 calipers these will be a bolt on swap. For earlier cars you'll need the stepped bolts as used on later TRs. Brake catalogues like this are very useful...... http://www.bremboaftermarket.com/En/Car_Disc_Catalogue/Catalogue_Search.aspx?SearchMode=Model&IsResult=True&SearchBrand=TRIUMPH&SearchModel=TR%206%2001/69%20-%2012/76&SearchAssemblySide=Both&SearchCatalogueBrand=Brembo ..... but it can take while! Golf Mk 2 G60 is the closest I can see after a shot look but will need the centre hole machining at least http://www.bremboaftermarket.com/En/Car_Disc_Catalogue/Catalogue_Detail.aspx?ApplicationIDMaster=295688 Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Oh I use my brakes quite a bit and I can bring the stock ones to fade almost at will along my fav b-road, but I'm not going to use it on the track so paying silly money for Wilwood brakes would be just that, silly. I will however need better brakes because I'm still using the sock US spec engine and I've got plans for another 50 hp or so, first step there will be swapping in the head I prepared along the DIY thread here. Yes I could go with better pads only but that's kinda silly if I'm going to replace the discs anyways, additionally I'm a "late braker" so I like having something in reserve. The reason I'm looking at the spacer kit is that my stock metric calipers are in excellent condition and was probably swapped by the previous owner shortly before I purchased the car in 2013 as they still look brand new. Like I said I'll try to get the 4 pot Toyo calipers in there, larger pads. Thx for the Golf tip and I'll certainly look through the Brembo catalogue Yes I know I could probably get away with just getting new discs and some better pads but there's some fun in making something better as well, and from stock parts .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 This is my homemade set. Spacer made from aircraft aluminium with high strength and longer bolts from Grade 8 bolts to fix the brake pads made on a lathe from 8mm mild steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Looks good, which disc did you use for this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Replacement discs from a Moss set, simply added a spacer plate between disc and axle to fit between the extended caliper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/brake-disc-set-vented-spb32524.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Interesting, if it's a Moss part why did you need the spacer, is it because the widened stock caliper won't clear the hub ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 It is not intended to be used in this way, its from the set with the 4-pot calipers They took a Ford part and adapted it for the brake kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The inner side of the caliper with the ears is positioned and bolted first like stock. Next you have to position the disc that it fits with the correct distance to this part of the caliper. Than the caliper spacers have to be made that the outer side of the caliper is positioned correctly, too. It will fit with 24mm discs just that the outer part of caliper will not touch the hub or the wheel. Than all is bolted together and thats it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 So what you're saying is that without the extra spacer you made this disc won't center correctly with the widened stock caliper ? Do you have any idea which Ford part they used for this because I'm going to get my brother to help me out and perhaps we can come up with an even better solution with the equipment he has access to at work .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Let us know how the better solution will be. I am very interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Well I got tired of looking for the best possible discs available here in Europe, to keep the machining costs down, and decided to spend some time looking for better shipping options instead and found one Toyota Cressida vented discs 272 mm dia, Toyota 4 runner 4 pot calipers and some inexpensive semi metallic pads to get me started will cost me around 150 GBP including shipping, add 25% import taxes and Iit's still not much more than what Moss want for those discs alone. I'll still need to machine the discs a little bit of course but according to others who've done this conversion it should be minimal I'll post back when I see how this works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Just for your safety I will give a last comment: Working on the brakes is not a question of getting something cheaper but a question if you are still on the safe side. When swapping the calipers you must be aware that the connections will be different. The new connections must be recalculated if the forces on them are still okay. You have smaller discs and need to reposition the calipers otherwise the pads will overlap the disc. Keeping the stock calipers makes life easy because that is all like Triumph calculated. Even the brake pads are Triumph so only there is some additional airpass in the disc bringing the disc after breaking quicker back to normal temperature. The next thing to take into account is the caliper itself and its total surface of the cylinders. The size of the rear cylinders and the front 4 pots will devide the braking power between front and rear. If you change it this will be mostly be done into the bad direction. Either you will loose rear break power and total brake distance gets longer or rear break power increases with the result that rear may get loose and oversteer under special break conditions, mostly when you do not like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 No worries, this isn't my first brake modification job but IS the first time I'm doing it on a Triumph, not to mention that I'm fairly new to Triumph cars as a whole, and that's why I was looking for some input on which parts others have used. I don't have a problem paying for quality parts but I don't like paying more then necessary for parts that are basically lightly modified stock parts when I know I can do the modifying just as well myself, probably better. Price isn't my main motivation for doing this but it's an added bonus for working with "stock" parts, availability is big motivation for not going with a kit from Moss or one of the other vendors as well as the satisfaction of doing something yourself. And yes I'm fitting larger wheel cylinders at the rear as well, I've had a set of larger diameter Nissan Sunny B210 1973-78 wheel cylinders on my shelf for some time that also look like they're a bolt in solution. I appreciate your concern though and I'll do my best not to kill myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelrik Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hi guys I'm trying to put together my own kit for a ventilated brake disc upgrade on my TR6 and I've come up with two possible solutions for the caliper but I'm struggling a bit with finding some stock ventilated discs So does anyone know of any discs from a European sold car that will fit with some reasonable machine work ? This combination was popular in OZ a few years back. Peugeot 604 rotors, hilux LN106 4wd calipers (late 80's to mid 90's shape) The Peugeot disks were (are?) very cheap. Drill 4 holes for TR hub spacing. You may already have the needed Toyota calipers. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph-V8 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Peter, these discs seem to be solid like the original, they are only 2mm smaller in diametre. What was the advantage over the original ones?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 It seems the 604 came with either vented or non vented discs depending on engine size, Ferodo DDF161 is the vented one but I'm coming up short tracking down someone stocking it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Found the correct 604 disc here https://www.qp24.de/car-parts/brake-disc/bdi00703/168686/brake-discs The centering hole will probably need to be enlarged a little in addition to drilling new holes but it's also a couple of mm deeper/higher than the stock discs so the question is if it will center properly in the caliper without some additional machining. Price looks good but I'm slightly concerned about how long I had to look to find someone stocking them as that's part of the point of my project, availability. Yes I know ordering parts from Rockauto in the US for a car only sold in the US isn't exactly "off the shelf" parts either. Once I get the Toyo discs and get the calipers on the car I can take a closer look at the Corrado or Golf G60 discs and see how they compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelrik Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Hmmm bit surprised that Pug 604 rotors are hard to get in EU, as Oz ebay has a few of them for sale here. I suppose they are ancient now. As you reported, however, the Cressida rotors seem to be as cheap-as-chips from USA!! This guy has them for USD30 each & 25% off if you buy 2 - shipping & vat would hurt I guess. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Brake-Rotor-Front-IAP-Dura-BR3247-fits-86-88-Toyota-Cressida-/191541195805 Please keep us informed on your findings. I recently met a guy with a TR6 that had heaps of issues with his big brake conversion. To get extra boost for pedal pressure he put on a diesel alternator which had a vacuum pump integral and sent all that vacuum to the brake booster. He kept the motor vacuum for the Lucas PI. I do not trust the new brake MC's sold for TR6s (made in India?) I had one that couldn't be bled & I ended up getting an original one resleeved. So dont throw your old MC away & keep it until the very last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Hmmm bit surprised that Pug 604 rotors are hard to get in EU, as Oz ebay has a few of them for sale here. I suppose they are ancient now. As you reported, however, the Cressida rotors seem to be as cheap-as-chips from USA!! This guy has them for USD30 each & 25% off if you buy 2 - shipping & vat would hurt I guess. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Brake-Rotor-Front-IAP-Dura-BR3247-fits-86-88-Toyota-Cressida-/191541195805 Please keep us informed on your findings. I recently met a guy with a TR6 that had heaps of issues with his big brake conversion. To get extra boost for pedal pressure he put on a diesel alternator which had a vacuum pump integral and sent all that vacuum to the brake booster. He kept the motor vacuum for the Lucas PI. I do not trust the new brake MC's sold for TR6s (made in India?) I had one that couldn't be bled & I ended up getting an original one resleeved. So dont throw your old MC away & keep it until the very last. I don't trust anything made in India, why ? My other hobby vehicle is an Indian made Royal Enfield Bullet 500, it's a 99 model (looks almost exactly the British built 50's bike) and the build quality would need to be quite a bit better for me to classify it as horrible. Rubber bits are quite literally disintegrating before my eyes and I can barely tighten a bolt without stripping threads. A few weeks ago the lever for the decompression valve just broke in half, the bike has less than 8k miles on it The worrying bit is that this is an export model and that makes you wonder how bad the home market model is, or if perhaps they dumped the junk ones over here. I'm not bothered though as it was a cheap bike I picked up earlier this year to have some fun with but if I had bought this bike new I would have been pissed Anyways, back to the brakes. Yes I was a bit surprised at having so much trouble finding the Pug bits but I talked to a Renault owner at a Cars & Coffee and he mentioned that many of the owners of French cars buy their bits from a couple of companies in Denmark so perhaps I've been looking in all the wrong places. I'll know more once my parts arrive so I can see what I've got to work with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 Nick Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Thread hijack - interesting about the Enfield. I've long looked at them and thought that they would make a good learner's bike - not too fast, with vintage styling but modern reliability. Apparently not, so thanks for the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Oh I'm loving it and if you're into old British cars you'll feel right at home when it comes down to maintenance. Basically it's the 50's Royal Enfield bike but with lower build quality. As an example I dismantled, readjusted and then reassembled the gear selector mechanism this summer. Good fun though and you can do it with a good selection of hand tools and I'm quite pleased with the results as I can find all 4 gears now. Not all the time of course but most of the time, or neutral, neutral on the other hand is difficult to find when you actually want it, haven't quite figured out that one. Apparently all this will be better if I install a clutch cover reinforcement kit, the word is that there's too much flex in the clutch cover for the clutch to disengage properly .... or something Still goof fun, this woman has described it very well and especially the gear selection bit http://www.realclassic.co.uk/enfield03070800.html If you buy one though there's a very good source for spare parts in the UK and prices are very reasonable http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/home Make sure you order Pete Snidal's service manual before you attempt any DIY stuff, not everything is as you'd expect them to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelrik Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 In Australia, 1970's Jap bikes are making a big comeback. A friend just did a car sale/swap deal & ended up with a Honda cb450 clean & low Ks as part payment. Its like a 60s brit bike but it starts & doesnt leak (doesnt fall to bits either). He has a TR4 & thought nobody would be interested in the bike. But when he advertised it - he was deluged - sold it in 2 days. I must admit to having a few VeloSolex's Anyway keep us posted on your brake adventure - I was surprised that someone said TR6 brakes were crap. On my 2500 sedan the rotors would glow a bit after a spirited drive but they still worked OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLarsen Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Parts was delivered to the proxy address earlier this week and have now left the US, by boat, so it's going to take a little while but they're on their way here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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