canems ecu

[Noswal]

Ive install a canems ecu on my tr6 made the inlet manifold myself , with Suzuki 600 throttle bodies. So today is start up day , and yes started first time, Great.

I'm now trying to tune it because its so rich, with no luck so far. I'm in tuning mode but nothing seems to make any difference, altering figures in the fuel table , no.

So any one have a Canems with more knowledge me (no hard to do) can HELP

Phil

 

 

 

[oldtuckunder]

Zero knowledge, but would love to see a picture!

Alan

[Nick Jones]

Hi Phil,

Welcome.  Sounds like an interesting project and pictures would be great.  As it's running you've obviously got it mostly right - that's an achievement right there and 

I don't have any specific Canems ECU knowledge but I have got a reasonable amount of FI experience via a number of Megasquirt projects and quite a few factors are universal. I have found  a fairly basic manual on the Canems website and had a quick skim through

Some questions to help me  - probably to ask some more directed questions originally:

- Are you using the 600 injectors fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator? 

- Do you know what the rated flow of the injectors is?

- Are you using manifold pressure or throttle position as the engine load sensing?

- Is the ECU controlling ignition as well?  Wasted spark?

- Do you have an oxygen sensor fitted, if so, wideband or narrow?

First thing that strikes me looking through the manual is I can't see what would be the essential first setup step for a Megasquirt ECU, and that is the bit where you tell the ECU what the engine capacity is, the number of cylinders, injector flowrate, and choose the injection strategy (number of injection events per rev).  The ECU then uses these to work out a parameter which it calls "required fuel" which is used in all it's fuelling calculations and you can offset the whole fuelling table by raising or lowering this number.  The closest thing I can see in the Canems device is "injector resolution" but I'm not sure it does the same job.

Cheers

Nick

[Noswal]

Hi Nick,

yes im using the original 600 injectors rated at 200 cc, waisted spark via ford coil pack.

Manifold pressure and a wide band sensor. The manual that you have is all I have.

it run just but sound as it’s on only 4 cylinders. I’ve had the plugs out, they are all black as you would imagine but fireing I think.

The chap at canems took details of engine and injectors and does a base program.

The injector resolution is set mbps low for big injectors higher for small injectors you can reduce the resolution but on small injectors 

you my run out of fuel at full load.

cheers Phil

[Nick Jones]

Ok......  Still don't really understand the resolution part.

Does it answer the throttle and rev up at all?

Where are you taking the MAP signal from (you really need to be reading an average of all 6 cylinders) and are you sure that this is leak free to the sensor?  Do you get sensible vacuum readings (maybe 60 - 70mBar at idle dependent on the cam you run).  Vacuum leaks here will make the ECU think you are running more throttle than you are and over-fuel.  Also, if you are only taking from one cylinder, it will only be right for the other 5 if your throttle balance is spot-on - which is unlikely at this point, plus the signal is probably very variable.

I'm also extremely suspicious of after-market fuel pressure regulators and the gauges that come with them.  Assume you have the fuel pressure set at 3 Bar - Are you reasonably sure that the gauge reads right and the regulator is doing it's job?

As regards the possible running on 4...... are you sure you have the plug lead order right...... it does look like you have in the pic though can't be 100% sure of the bottom row?  I know all too well how easy it is to get this wrong (I have this T shirt, more than once).  The other possibility, at idle and very light throttle at least, is that it is just throttle balance and couple of cylinders are getting almost no air, which will also make them very rich - this would normally clear as the throttle opens.  Are all plugs equally wet / black? 

Also, be aware that some NGK plugs cannot take being soaked in fuel and will not work properly, if at all, after being flooded.  This is the sort of daft thing that can have you chasing your tail thinking you new plugs must be fine, when they are not.......  Guess how I know that!

Nick

[Noswal]

I have interconnected tubes through the manifold so yes it’s an average of all six.

not sure on vac readings.

i have malpassi not tested but set to 3 bar

all plugs are black not wet.

plugs paired 6-1 5-2 4-3

plugs used are Bosch WR 78 super 4

sent a text to Daniel at Lloyd’s telling of my problems.

sent one back asking , fuel pressure ,manifold pressure kph , fuel mixture at idle.

[Nick Jones]

Ok.......

Trace is interesting in general terms because there are lots of spikey lines.  This is generally not a good sign and the trick is to work out which line is the cause of the upset.

The absence of (much) colour) or scales makes it impossible to be very specific but....

In the top grouping, the top black line is hopping about all over the place .  Is this the MAP line?  If so, there are two problems; 1, it really shouldn't be that shape. 2, if the scale is really 0 - 300 kPa then it's showing above atmospheric pressure quite alot of the time, which is most unlikely to be true.  Can you confirm whether that is the MAP trace?

 

Nick

[oldtuckunder]

Bearing in mind I know nothing about EFI, but have played with MAP sensors, and given Nick's comment reminded me that the TR6 PI with multiple throttle bodies suffered from very poor manifold pressures, and also whilst playing with MAP sensors I did find out that they don't like long runs of small bore pipe, and just wondered if you have all six individually daisy chained and then onwards to the map sensor, you may get some odd results.

But as I say I know nothing about EFI

Alan

[Nick Jones]

Hmmm..... my MAP sensor is at the end of 2m of mig welder liner - works fine.  Small bore provides damping.  Further damping can be provided with a small volume pot (inline fuel filter?) but don't overdo it or response times will be too slow.

Some ECUs (MS2 for example) also allow you to apply electronic damping.  Looking at the scale I wonder whether there is a mismatch between the MAP sensor fitted and the one that the ECU is configured for as it's showing what amounts to 2 Bar of boost at the peaks!

Not even certain that the trace in question is MAP (until it's confirmed) but dunno what else it would be.  Presume the bottom black line in that group is throttle position.

Nick

Engine management is easy(ish) if it all works first time.  If you get problems -  the learning process begins in earnest!

[Noswal]

All the manifold is coming off at the weekend just to make sure its all sealed properly then we will start again.

will put more info on when its all back together. Though things were going to good

Cheers Phil

[Nick Jones]

Before you go to that effort, satisfy my curiosity - is that top, black line the MAP signal?

If it is, it is quite enough to be the cause of your issues and worth getting to the bottom of before pulling things apart.  As mentioned above, if the scale is really 0 - 300kPa then something is amiss with the scaling because you shouldn't be seeing anything above 100kPa (atmospheric pressure) unless you've got a turbo tucked out of sight.  I take the MAP sensor is a separate unit rather than built into the ECU?

Might also be worth sending that screen shot to Lloyds if you haven't already?

Cheers

Nick

[Noswal]

Did that last night, came back saying manifold air leak Kpa to high manifold pressure to low

cheers Phil

[Nick Jones]

Leak most likely in the tube(s) between manifold and MAP sensor.  An actual air leak in the manifold usually causes a stupidly high "idle" speed and it really doesn't need to be a big leak to give quite high rpms.

Nick

[Noswal]

All reassembled now, put some different plugs in and she runs. Got to set the cold start settings now, so things are progressing.

The vacuum gauge that I have connected is a bit wild not stable at all, hope thats not an indication of other problems.

what plugs do you recommend Nick ?

Phil

 

[Nick Jones]

I use Bosch WR7DTC if I remember right - triple electrode ones.  Triumph engines love them.

"A bit wild" would be a good description for the the MAP trace (I think) on the screenshot you posted.  You need to sort this first. It is critical to the correct operation of the whole system as it's a key input signal. 

Can you provide a bit more info (pics would be good) about the MAP sensor and how you have it connected to the manifold.

Nick

[Noswal]

Hi Nick,  I’ve moved the the pipe that supplies the map sensor on to the ones that come from the bottom of the throttle bodies, these I have dasy chained together so should be more stable. Tickover is much better now

Ive been trying to set the cold start, it’s getting better but having trouble with fowled plugs .The plug you suggest do they need to be the resistor type.

cheers Phil

[Nick Jones]

Yep, that sounds like what is needed - connections from all 6 TBs daisy chained.  If it's still a bit lumpy then you could try adding a small volume pot (small fuel filter canister or similar) at the point where all 6 come together as this will give a bit more damping.

If you've got a semi-decent idle then your next move should be to balance the throttle bodies so that all are pulling the same air volume at idle (you'll need a balancing flow meter to do this properly) as any that are flowing less air will be extra rich and more liable to fouling.  Are you finding particular cylinders more prone to fouling?

I would say that you do want resistive plugs as this reduces electrical interference.  Non-resistive ones are more of a challenge to buy these days anyway as nearly everything uses resistive ones.

Nick

[Noswal]

That was my next question, no6 seems to be the problem one, I was thinking of letting a little more air through on the butterfly , would that work?

Is it better to be slightly lean on  tickover ?

Or could I put a hotter plug in no6

Cheers Phil

[Nick Jones]

Probably 6 needs more air.  But really you need to balance the lot.  All 6 need to be pulling exactly the same amount of air at idle and pick up at the same time/open equally as the throttle is opened.

 

[Noswal]

Not been able to do much on the Tr lately, but what I have done is balanced all the cylinders roughly the same. My throttle bodies don’t have bleed screws as on the video, you have to alter each butterfly which alters the next and so on and having 6 not 4 makes it worse, makes me think I should have gone down another route ie tr6 throttle bodies might have made life easier.

I found that the problem was the idle valve and where it entered the manifold (on the photo right side near rad) all the air was being pulled by no1 leaving nothing for the rest, also the Bosch valve never completely closed down so was also having trouble with tickover being too high. Now that it’s not in the system everything working much better.

I have three other issues at the moment, the Rev counter on idle is fine then as you rev the engine it reads less rather than more, the other is a programming problem I think. When the electric fan kicks in all the fuel goes lean for a few seconds till program catches up, it could also be the charging system not giving enough on idle. The other is the aem o2 gauge, it reads 2 numbers lower than the ecu program which is right ?

Merry Christmas 

Phil