HMRC won’t accept that my mother is dead

[Sprint95m]

A real bad one this.

Over two and a half years ago my mother passed away.
I used the “Tell Us Once” service to inform the various Government agencies including HMRC. As executor I completed the necessary tax returns and these were processed in a timely manner. However they didn’t close her tax account…..

this I discovered earlier this year when HMRC fined me, not once but four times!!
After I complained, HMRC bereavement service closed her account and removed the fines and returned the £400.
So far so good.

The real hassle have been the VAT people.
It should be a simple process to have the deceased removed from a VAT registration account?
After all the forms are not complicated…..

In response to a complaint (one of many) they did process the forms and remove my mother, this was completed in May.
An end to the matter? Not quite….
because in July she was reinstated and not only that, the account was frozen..

The complaints have bought confirmation that I did everything properly, numerous apologies and also payments of compensation, which is all well good but no good to me because they still didn’t actually sort the VAT problem.
The dark saga, now has a new twist, my mother it seems has been added to another VAT account! I don’t know whose it is but it is certainly nothing to do with my late mother or me

What to do next?
By their not replying to complaints I am being denied the opportunity to go to an adjudicator. Bereavement services won’t get involved but suggested simply closing the VAT account but that is no use to me because as a subcontractor I have to be VAT registered and, anyway, how many years would this take?

I am old enough to mind when HMRC had offices here with a counter, you could go and ask then have any queries or problems addressed.
So much for progress?

oh, how to get this sorted?

 

Thanks 

Ian

[Nick Jones]

I wonder if someone with a similar name is having issues in the other direction…… Shocking incompetence either way.

Not much help to you but my brother, lifelong civil servant, fairly recently transferred from the Home Office too HMRC. He describes it as by far the most dysfunctional “organisation” he’s ever encountered with minimal internal discipline or accountability.

In your place I’d be submitting one more strongly worded complaint offering them one final chance to resolve the matter and demanding a single point of human contact to facilitate this - or legal action (with a fat compensation demand for time wasted and general heartache) to follow.  The papers would probably enjoy the story too, but it might not be the most productive approach.

I’ve had minimal direct contact with HMRC, but have found that although you can wait a while on their helpline, once you do get through to a human, the human is usually pleasant and helpful. Perhaps wort setting aside a couple of hours to get on the phone and pushing that as far as it will go before doing anything else?

[Sprint95m]

Phoning HMRC?
As soon as you mention "complaint" they put the phone down.
The appropriate department is never available so you have to leave a message.
They never return calls. That is true. Even after a formal complaint they still don't.

They don't reply to emails. Well not quite, they do occasionally reply.

They don't reply to letters. True.
They never issue acknowledgements.

They don't reply to complaints. Sometimes they do months late but just to fob you off.
They don't give complaint reference numbers. Sometimes they do but the tracking doesn't work anyway.

If you pay over the phone they take the money but don't allocate it (it just sits in your account)
Then they fine you for not paying....

 

What a wonderful service.

 

Sent a letter of formal complaint asking for an investigation into the handling of my mother's tax accounts.
Have requested for this to be referred to the adjudicator if they won't do so.. 
It costs nearly £8 to send a letter to HMRC

 

 

thanks,

Ian

[RogerH]

Hi Ian

have you spoken to your MP

Quite often works wonders.

 

Roger

[MilesA]

I endorse Roger's suggestion but also engage the Minister responsible which I think is Victoria Atkins MP (please check).

My wife used to work for a quasi governmental regulator and all hell was let loose when query or complaint came in from a Minister in particular.

PS I agree with Nick about persevering on the 'phone and speaking calmly to an individual. Time-consuming but in the past I have found that this has been productive. Anything written/digital just disappears into an abyss and is lost for eternity....

Miles

[Sprint95m]

Thanks for the suggestions 

It is apparently the “change of legal entity” department I need to speak to.
The problem is this, they do not communicate directly with customers full stop. 
Instead you have to go via the complaints system…

sending letters at £8 a time is mounting up

 

If I am no further on in the New Year I will try the MSP or MP route

 

thanks

Ian

 

 

[Nick Jones]

3 hours ago, RogerH said:

have you spoken to your MP

Would need to be a much more worthwhile human than the waste of skin that holds the role here!

[Sprint95m]

Sometimes MPs do get involved.

During the huge storm of 1959, one of the top ocean going trawlers from Aberdeen, the George Robb,  put out a mayday call
predicting that they were going to run aground at Duncansby Head.
My uncle and father went as coastguard volunteers to this incident. Unfortunately the local man who was going
to lead them down the cliff onto the foreshore suffered a massive heart attack and dropped dead.
There wasn't anything that could be done and the George Robb hadn't actually beached but had struck rocks some distance out
and the Longhope lifeboat from Ho in Orkney couldn't reach the trawler either. There were no survivors.

Coastguard volunteers got paid for attending incidents. My father declined payment but my uncle accepted, however
the next morning when he went to sign on (as fisherman did daily then when not at sea) his dole money was refused.
My father wasn't having that because coastguard volunteering did not affect your entitlement to dole money, so
he contacted the picture editor at the Scottish Daily Express in Glasgow.
The SDE kicked up such a stooshie by running the story on their front page that the local MP became involved,
bringing the matter up in the House of Commons to demand an inquiry.
The outcome was that my uncle received his dole money. Just that, no apology nothing.

My father was not one for being intimidated. When told by Shell that their payment terms were were three months
he told them they would have to pay cash that day if they wanted the job done. They did an' all!!

 

Ian

[Hamish]

MPs do get involved. Their team write a letter …….

i have just had to respond to 2 for work this am. Local authorities stuff. 
their interpretation of the situation to the MP should be on jackanory 

[Nick Jones]

You could try getting these folks involved

We welcome letters but cannot answer individually. Email us at consumer.champions@theguardian.com or write to Consumer Champions, Money, the Guardian, 90 York Way, London N1 9GU. Please include a daytime phone number. Submission and publication of all letters is subject to our terms and conditions

I dare say other papers offer the same if you can’t stand the Guardian….

[PeterC]

My suggestion:  Registered-delivery snail-mail letter to HMRC, stating copied to  your MP. 

 

[Sprint95m]

An update, eventually managed to speak to somebody at the VAT department….. he was at a complete loss as to what has happened other than to confirm HMRC are at fault.

I am to ignore any more letters for the incorrect VAT number and he has escalated the request to remove my mother, given that they finally accept she is no longer alive.

Fingers crossed……

 

Ian

[Sprint95m]

17 hours ago, PeterC said:

My suggestion:  Registered-delivery snail-mail letter to HMRC, stating copied to  your MP. 

 

Any mail sent to HMRC needs to be by Special Delivery, which is nearly £8 each time.

 

(Yes olde “signed for” no longer works which is a consequence of the Covid distancing measures

17 hours ago, PeterC said:

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Depending on the detail there is the third option of just ignoring them until they actually issue a summons and then let the judge tell them to p### off.

[zetecspit]

3 hours ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

Depending on the detail there is the third option of just ignoring them until they actually issue a summons and then let the judge tell them to p### off.

Over the years I have used that threat with a few utility companies. Usually when they chase me for stuff that was not my responsibility (rented places) and I have supplied them with all the relevent details/paperwork. I add that Judges take a dim view of big companies harassing people. 

I have yet to make a court appearance, the issue tends to disappear at their end. 

[MilesA]

20 hours ago, Sprint95m said:

An update, eventually managed to speak to somebody at the VAT department….. he was at a complete loss as to what has happened other than to confirm HMRC are at fault.

I am to ignore any more letters for the incorrect VAT number and he has escalated the request to remove my mother, given that they finally accept she is no longer alive.

Fingers crossed……

 

Ian

Ian

As some other functionary may take a different view, make a 'contemporaneous note' of the conversation in as much details as possible, sign and date it in case needed as future evidence.

As for snail mail in my case to DWP re underpayment of my wife's pension, we sent 3 tracked and signed for letters with bundles of supporting evidence to them monthly about a year ago. Each signed for "COVID". Haven't ever received an acknowledgment / reply /explanation and frankly have given up for the meantime.

So hope you have found a solution.

Miles

 

[Sprint95m]

Thanks Miles,

have already done that. 
 

 

After using the “tell us once”, DWP contacted me to get bank details so they could transfer the outstanding pension balance. This was completed very quickly from their offices in Belfast. The complete opposite of your experience.

thanks

Ian

[Sprint95m]

Well, it has taken nearly three years but finally
at long last HMRC have accepted that my mother is dead.

A known technical fault was to blame, apparently,
which surely begs the question
if it is known then why not sort it?

I also have written confirmation that my tax status is correct
including for “Making Tax Digital”, which means I can now fully 
access my Gateway account.

 

 Thanks 

Ian

[Nick Jones]

 

That’s for you and your patience (or fortitude anyway), not them for taking 3 years to do what should have taken minutes.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

 

That’s for you and your patience (or fortitude anyway), not them for taking 3 years to do what should have taken minutes.

Quite.