spitfire6 Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) Hi, I have the MOCAL Spin on Oil Filter Adaptor fitted to my CP 6 cylinder engine. I have a large filter fitted & even though I have no overnight drain issues I have always wanted it to be mounted below the housing. I have found a filter that is very short that I believe will be able to be mounted below the housing & be replaced with out having to rotate the housing. I am planning in fitting pressure transmitters along the oil galley and one pre-filter, but until then I think it will be no problem. Anyone fitted this filter? Cheers, Iain. Edited May 25, 2022 by spitfire6
Nick Jones Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 The one I'm using now is a Mann 714/2, which is pretty short (though perhaps not that short) and also has a double NRV setup. It's mostly used on Alfas including the V6. What's the part number on yours?
JohnD Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 Iain, As you may know from my recent posts, I'm desperate to get my oil.pressure up. A bigger oil filter might reduce resistance across it. That tall filter might do it, but you quote "B&B BFO 4118" while in the pic it's labelled "OC 61". Which is it? John
spitfire6 Posted May 25, 2022 Author Posted May 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, JohnD said: Iain, As you may know from my recent posts, I'm desperate to get my oil.pressure up. A bigger oil filter might reduce resistance across it. That tall filter might do it, but you quote "B&B BFO 4118" while in the pic it's labelled "OC 61". Which is it? John Hi John, The Large Porsche OC61 filter I have fitted will be replace by the mini B&B BFO 4118 filter. Cheers, Iain.
Nick Jones Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, spitfire6 said: Borg & Beck BFO 4118 That's pretty short @ 55 mm. Cross references to Mann W77 which is 59mm. BOth have single non-return flap and internal relief. W77 is rated at 0.8 Bar (12 psi), can't find a number for the B & B one. The Mann 714/2 I use is 79mm long with 2 x NRV and internal relief rated at 1.5 Bar (22 psi) https://catalog.mann-filter.com/EU/eng/catalog/MANN-FILTER Katalog Europa/Oil Filter/W 714~2
spitfire6 Posted May 25, 2022 Author Posted May 25, 2022 Hi Nick, Thanks for the info. my search was futile. My mini filter could possibly pass unfiltered oil at a delta of 12 psi. Hopefully this PD is never reached. I have no idea what the cold or hot PD is on any filter. I need to find a pre-filtered oil source point to measure this. I think its the big "Plug"? Cheers, Iain.
ed_h Posted May 26, 2022 Posted May 26, 2022 8 hours ago, spitfire6 said: Hi, I have the MOCAL Spin on Oil Filter Adaptor fitted to my CP 6 cylinder engine. I have a large filter fitted & even though I have no overnight drain issues I have always wanted it to be mounted below the housing. I have found a filter that is very short that I believe will be able to be mounted below the housing & be replaced with out having to rotate the housing. Cheers, Iain. I had the same desire to have the oil filter vertical on my TR6, mostly for silly aesthetic reasons. I couldn't finds a filter short enough to work on the usual adapter. This is a home brew adapter. It shows the filter I'm currently using, but a quite a bit longer one also works. My understanding is that a new filter will only have a few pounds of pressure differential across it, but this goes up as the filter gets dirty. The filter in the pic lists a bypass pressure of 8-11 psi (I think think this means that the valve starts to open at 8 psi, and is fully open at 11 psi). The pressure across the filter of course reduces the oil pressure the engine sees. Ed 2
flatter4 Posted May 26, 2022 Posted May 26, 2022 I like Mann filters. They are used by OEMs - so quality is good, and they have a great website where you can review the specs (as Nick references). Bigger filters should give less pressure drop, but of course we only see the outside, and the design of the internal filter media is critical too. It's also important to note that the filter becomes more efficient after some use - so there is a good argument that on a healthy engine you should only change the filter every other oil change. Also the bypass is designed to open when the engine is cold and pressure drop across the filter is high - so never rev. a cold engine as this can cause the bypass to open and flush the dirt straight into the working parts of the engine...... 3
Gt64fun Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 10 hours ago, flatter4 said: so never rev. a cold engine Someone should tell Mike Brewer! 1
PeteStupps Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 12 hours ago, flatter4 said: It's also important to note that the filter becomes more efficient after some use This is interesting, can you clarify what you mean by 'efficient'? I can imagine that they filter out more particles with use (like a partially blocked drain gathers more and more debris) but that there is also a corresponding increase in pressure drop.
Nick Jones Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 Yes, pore size reduces with use so will catch smaller particles but pressure drop increases. I do usually change the filter every second oil change.
spitfire6 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Posted May 28, 2022 Hi, 55mm long & still too long!. Cheers, Iain.
Hamish Posted May 28, 2022 Posted May 28, 2022 Can you not rotate the adapter so the filter fits may not be horizontal but at least it would have a filter
spitfire6 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Posted May 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hamish said: Can you not rotate the adapter so the filter fits may not be horizontal but at least it would have a filter Hi, I can rotate several degrees CCW but worry the engine torque will close the clearance more. Cheers, Iain.
JohnD Posted May 29, 2022 Posted May 29, 2022 Is there more clearance from the chassis rail on a TR6? See ed_h's wonderful home made adaptor, above. John
Nick Jones Posted May 29, 2022 Posted May 29, 2022 That’s very similar to how mine is on the Vitesse. Rotated up a bit so it just misses the PRV housing. It’s literally the only place it can go due to things around it. Don’t have any issues with drain-down. It gets oil pressure very quickly. before fitting the oil temp sensor it was more or less horizontal and I had room to run a larger 724/1 filter. No drain-down issues then either. The Mocal adapter was designed for the big saloons and isn’t ideal for TRs or especially small-chassis cars. Ed’s adapter is a very nice piece, which would suit a lot better, but I’m assuming he’s not planning volume production…..
redgaz Posted January 4 Posted January 4 On 5/25/2022 at 8:51 PM, spitfire6 said: Hi, I have the MOCAL Spin on Oil Filter Adaptor fitted to my CP 6 cylinder engine. I have a large filter fitted & even though I have no overnight drain issues I have always wanted it to be mounted below the housing. I have found a filter that is very short that I believe will be able to be mounted below the housing & be replaced with out having to rotate the housing. I am planning in fitting pressure transmitters along the oil galley and one pre-filter, but until then I think it will be no problem. Anyone fitted this filter? Cheers, Iain. Hi, old thread i know!. Did you even get around to measuring pressures with the BFO 4118 (W77) fitted?. I'm going to do an oil and filter change soon on my Mk2 Vitesse and would like to fit a W77 filter, thanks in advance for any updates, Gary.
spitfire6 Posted January 5 Author Posted January 5 16 hours ago, redgaz said: Hi, old thread i know!. Did you even get around to measuring pressures with the BFO 4118 (W77) fitted?. I'm going to do an oil and filter change soon on my Mk2 Vitesse and would like to fit a W77 filter, thanks in advance for any updates, Gary. Hi & greetings, I am still running the short filter with no issues; the oil pressure switch is adjustable and set to illuminate when the oil is hot and I stall the engine to circa 500 RPM. I have all the sensors but they are still not fitted. Cheers, Iain.
redgaz Posted January 5 Posted January 5 Interesting stuff !. I've noticed that with the short filter fitted, the oil light doesn't seem go out any quicker than with a longer filter fitted at an angle, up !.
Nick Jones Posted January 5 Posted January 5 Do you know how old your Mocal adapter is? The earlier ones have a fixed centre and were supplied with a couple of different o-rings and instructions on how to choose the right one for your block. The wrong one either gave you an external leak (o-ring too big) which was very obvious or an internal leak (o-ring too small) which is completely invisible but allows a small amount of oil to bypass the filter when running and the galleries to drain down unrestricted when off.
flatter4 Posted January 6 Posted January 6 12 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Do you know how old your Mocal adapter is? The earlier ones have a fixed centre and were supplied with a couple of different o-rings and instructions on how to choose the right one for your block. The wrong one either gave you an external leak (o-ring too big) which was very obvious or an internal leak (o-ring too small) which is completely invisible but allows a small amount of oil to bypass the filter when running and the galleries to drain down unrestricted when off. yep - and my early one needed machining as the inner O rings weren't big enough. Later housings have a spring loaded design - much nicer
flatter4 Posted January 6 Posted January 6 Proof that there is space to 'lower' the filter. Set (as Nick says) as close to the PRV as possible I seem to remember giving the brake pipe that exits vertically a little tweek too
Nick Jones Posted January 6 Posted January 6 5 hours ago, flatter4 said: ... sorry, should have detailed. The above is on a GT6 Vitesse pretty much identical. There is no great solution.
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