TRansit - diff noise.

[JohnD]

Back to the TRansit.  The back door looks like this now:

 

[mpbarrett]

Like the TRansit not sure about the UK badge!
Its so very Boris, we are not a United Kingdom anymore.....
Can we still use the GB badge?

Mike

BTW glad the van is behaving! We have a van based Campervan and I love driving it, feel like a white van man

 

[JohnD]

Having more experience of the TRansit for long journeys (1600 miles for Le Mans), I'd like advice please on a further mod.     I don't need to run anything very power-eating at night, but to be confident that the in-van lights, and charging my phone or running my tablet won't run-down the starter battery.   The cool-box would be good to have on all- night too. The van has a 'hook-up' socket, but none of my beloved French aires have a power supply, so I'd like to fit a second battery, that the engine would recharge while travelling during the day.   Some battery cable and a simple cut-off switch would be a cheap way of doing this.

But what do you think about my proposed second battery?     Earlier this year, I left the rear view camera on, and flattened the battery.     Twenty four hours on my 'smart' battery charger in 'restoration' mode and the battery was holding charge again, started and ran the van,  but it failed a second time.    In the face of the Le Mans trip, I splashed out on a new battery, so I have a battery, well used and abused, that might suffice for the above tasks.

What does the Electrical Engineering Dept. of Sideways U. think?   I know that a 'deep-cycle' leisure battery is the proper job, but I don't want to spend more.   Is this a foolish plan?

Also, I've installed in the rear 'workshop' a 200W diode light bar, to illuminate late night repair work.    Would that run of the second battery for more than a few minutes?

[rogerguzzi]

Hello John

                 Have a look at this site gives easy(cheap) and proper way!

Split Charging Guide - caravans, campervans, motorhomes, boats, vehicles (12voltplanet.co.uk)

Roger

ps I would go for something automatic because if you are anything like me you WILL forget to switch on or off!!

[Hamish]

As Roger says. I wouldn’t reinvent the wheel and go the route of camper vans and set up the “leisure battery(ies)” and use the controllers that they do. 

[zetecspit]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

Also, I've installed in the rear 'workshop' a 200W diode light bar, to illuminate late night repair work.    Would that run of the second battery for more than a few minutes?

Is it actually drawing 200W, or 200W equivelent? 

If the former, it will be drawing 17amps. But if the latter (and I expect it is equivelent, a 200w LED would blind you in a small area) it is probably just 2amps or so. Even a std little Herald battery would run that for at least 16hrs. 

[mpbarrett]

As above. Rogers guide is very clear. Should be able to buy the parts online.

Also its worth paying the extra for a proper leisure battery as they are designed to allow a  deep discharge without damaging the battery. 

re lights 200W (assuming its 12V) is 16A, if the battery is a 100Ah battery it should last for about ~6 hours,
Thats a lot of power for a light!

mike

[JohnD]

Very True, Roger, as I proved by ruining the first battery!  And Hamish, I guess you mean  DO use a more standard camper van set up, for the same reasons!  And Mike and Zetec too - it's a diode light bar, so I presume much less current than an incandescent, but had no idea what.

May I also ask the EE Dept. to look at this.     On top of the battery is a small accessory circuit, a wooden board with a fuse box and a relay.  At first, I thought it might be a circuit for a second battery:

It's wired as follows

 

The three-core flex, top right, looks like domestic flex, as does the 2-core included in the one sleeved in that split elephant tubing. 

That relay, I found was U/S.  Water had got in (How? the van is water-tight!) The DPO or whoever converted it has fitted two switches on the dash, supplied by the three-core flex from the accessory circuit.  One switch turns on the roof lights in the back (Fluorescent  tubes), but that has a yellow wire on it, so doesn't go to this accessory circuit.   The other switches the relay (I had a spare)!     But I still don't know what device it switches on!  And I don't know what devices are supplied  by the two 10A fuses, via the blue and purple wires!    

I don 't think it has anything to do with the 'hook-up' circuit.  That has a box in the back of the van with three circuit breakers, wired with standard three-core cable, not flex or vehicle wiring.  It supplies a pair of domestic three-pin sockets inside the van, used by the DPO  to power a domestic microwave, and two in the 'workshop' that if 'hooked-up' could be used for a power tool?   !    I use them to power a CTEK to keep the battery charged.

As well as roof lights, there are courtesy lights inside the van, and in the rear 'workshop, all switched by opening the doors (I wired the diode light bar to those!  Nothing blew up!).  So this is nothing to do with them.   

 

The TRansit  is more a "day van" than the full 'camper van' Apart from the above it has no electrical devices.  No water heaters, cabin heaters, televisions  or jukeboxes. Can anyone with a camper think what those two unswitched feeds and the relay-switched one are going to?

John

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by JohnD

[mpbarrett]

are they any 12V sockets in the van?  They could be feed from the battery and relay and only switched on as needed (and probably when the engine is running), I can imagine them being used for a fridge for example so you would only power it when the engine was on and charging the battery.

Presumably the 13A socket are feed from a EHU and as long as the cable is rated could be used for any thing at 240V (<13A). Most EHU in the UK are 16A, some are occasionally 10A or 8A so might need to think about the total load you are taking from the EHU.
In Europe its more variable. In Spain we went to one site where protective connection failed when it rained and the van chassis floated so you got a tingle if you touched the van when standing on the ground!

I think if you want to go to a separate leisure battery you are better starting again and following docs above. At least you will know the  cct!

Mike

[JohnD]

Thanks, Mike!    There is the usual "cigarette lighter" socket on the dash, no more 12V sockets.     The van came with a portable cool box that runs off that, and has a three pin 240V plug as well, but I have not dared run that except when the engine running.     It got difficult on last trip, as I wanted to recharge phone, and run the cool box, and I have an after market tyre pressure monitor, AND my satnav, all wanting to run off that socket!   I've bought a multiway extension with three sockets for next time!

Yes, this accessory circuit can't be anything to do with a leisure battery, but the relay switched circuit must have been something substantial, the relay is 30A and the  fuse 15A.   The other two supplied (Blue and purple, as if that meant anything, but see above) are 10A fused, but all three still mysterious!     

John

[Escadrille Ecosse]

John. This really isn't my area of expertise however this bloke ...

Has built one and may give you some hints along the line of the comments above. He is no expert so the explanations are quite good. he also has a canal boat channel which talks about the stuff too.

6 minutes ago, JohnD said:

he van came with a portable cool box that runs off that, and has a three pin 240V plug as well, but I have not dared run that except when the engine running. 

If you can run direct 12V all the better unless you have an external power source as the inverter consumes quite a bit of power itself. It does this whether or not there is a load too so should be isolated unless you are using it.

There, that's my knowledge of the subject exhausted.

[rogerguzzi]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

 The van came with a portable cool box that runs off that, and has a three pin 240V plug as well, but I have not dared run that except when the engine running.     

Hello John

                   If it is 230/240volt there must be an inverter somewhere?

You need to look at it and find out what it is rated at and how much power it can pull!

Roger

[JohnD]

Thank you Colin, and Roger!

The inverter must be in the cool-box, as there is a socket in there that takes the lead with a 13A plug on the end.   I see if there is anything on it.

[JohnD]

More probs with the TRansit - but what to expect, it's 20+ years old with 150K on the milometer!

Now, it's developed a rattle - I know, diesels rattle, but this is LOUD, and it's lost power.   I didn't think it was big end rattle, and as I'm no diesel techie took it to the small local garage for an opinion.    And I think that Ajax Motors, of 30 Hornbeam Road, Lancaster should get a special mention.    They took it in, inspected it, and diagnosed "diesel knock", due to a problem  (undiagnosed) with the fuel pump and/or injectors.    But they aren't equipped to deal with this and recommended me to specialist (what is this, private medical practice?) called Diesel Bob in Preston.     Ok so far, very OK.     Then they refused any payment!   That is NOT private practice!   Thank you very much, Ajax!

Which takes me to the other reason I'm posting about this.     Diesel Bob is booked up, can't take the TRansit for three weeks until just before my last race meeting of the year, and estimates anything from a couple of hundred to a grand depending on what's needed.   I've looked up 'diesel knock' on t'Web and found that there are many products that claim to clean, lubricate and generally make as new (!!) your diesel fuel system, just by adding them to the fuel tank.     Anyone used these?    They aren't as costly as vain hope usually is, so would a bottle of that in the tank and a test run or two be likely to improve it at all?

  I see Wynn's, Redex, STP, etc. etc. Injector cleaner, Inj.& pump cleaner, 'Total System, etc. etc.   Any recommendations, please?

Thanks,

John 

PS  Also belated thanks for the advice above.    I haven't added a second battery, and have removed the microwave oven that the TRansit came with.    I never used the oven, but the cool box is useful.    I've found that my usual touring itinerary, drive, stop for the night, drive, allows me to run the box during the day, and leave it off at night.   So no need to run down the battery!

Where the oven was, I've installed a cheap, self-assembly chest of drawers, to replace the plastic kitchen drawers that it came with.     Those would fly about being 'fixed' in  place by bungies, fly open on braking, and were awkward to access, being underneath the bed.  The chest is fixed to the floor and kept closed in  transit (!) by a small ratchet strap, so I now have more storage space  for clothes etc. that is easily accessible!

Edited September 25, 2024 by JohnD

[thebrookster]

I've used Wynns, Comma and Redex products in the past, certainly never damaged an engine with them. Juries out as to whether they have any real effect.

My usual approach is to ignore the mixing ratio, and throw a "full tank" bottle in when the tank is down at 1/4, and then do some high rev driving around to really flush through. Then when I have done that for half an hour or so I fill the tank, and throw another bottle in (the second bottle is mainly because my truck, and your van will likely be the same have larger fuel capacity so one bottle results in a low concentration).

I'd say it was worth a shot? Probably you want to get it checked out anyway, 150K if original injectors is pretty decent by any standard and is likely due to replaced anyway.

[Nick Jones]

23 minutes ago, JohnD said:

diagnosed "diesel knock", due to a problem  (undiagnosed) with the fuel pump and/or injectors

Be very careful. If it really is “diesel knock” (and it’s an entirely plausible diagnosis I’m afraid), much like detonation in a petrol engine it can cause serious mechanical damage very quickly (the loud noise is a clue).

Certain Transit engines (not sure if yours is in the right age bracket, possibly yours is older) are notorious for self destructive tendencies for this very reason and holed piston(s) is one of the more minor failures caused.

I doubt that an injector cleaner will work and while the cleaner itself won’t cause harm, running the engine, especially under high load, might well!

If yours is one of the older ones this might be of use

https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=162158

[thebrookster]

I should clarify that by high rev driving I mean 3rd gear, at roughly 3000rpm for a while and preferably on a flat (ISH) road! And that advice is only if it is injectors, looking at Nicks link suggests fuel pump issue, in which case my advice doesn't hold.

Have you got a code reader John? I have a basic one (Lidl's best lol) that I can drop off to you on Sunday when I pass by Lancaster? It doesn't read ancillary modules, but it does read engine codes so should suffice if you need it?

[JohnD]

Thank you, Phil and Nick!  Sideways not only has good advice, but is quick as well!

I'm trying an injector cleaner.  Halfords had at least five different brands, each with two or three products,  all appearing the same as they had the same ingredients, but with ascending price tags.  I bought two bottles of Redex injector cleaner, as that was the cheapest, and two cost the same as one of another makers.   I had about 30Litres in the tank, so put one in straight away (double the concentration on the label, but anyway) and went for a 40 mile drive, round a favourite circuit, country roads, Nick, no motorways!   It might be a bit better, but I'm  being hopeful.    Try it again from cold, when it is at its worst.   I'll put in the second bottle with the next fill up.

My friends at Apex said fuel pump and/or injectors.    Maybe I should look at fitting new injectors?   A look online shows that none of the usual suspects stock injectors for a 20 year old Transit, and eBay only has used ones.  Damn!  Part of my thinking to buy a Ford was that parts would be available! To try and fit random injectors might be disaster, not only from my inexperience, but from choosing the wrong ones!  And reading the workshop manual, it refers to at least two Ford Special Tools for the job.   I can get by without most of the Triumph ones, but not these!

Thank you for that link, Nick, it describes the symptoms well, and had a successful outcome!   And now I recall that Ajax mentioned 'solenoid' as well, as referred to in that thread.    I must get out my code reader, but tomorrow, it's getting dark and raining.   On code scanners, Phil, I  too bought a cheapo one, and it couldn't read the van at all!    Turns out that Ford went all snooty and have their own scanning system, FORscan, but you can get cheapish devices to run that.    But I haven't done so on the  van, Doh!  I'll try that too, and report any codes or their meanings.

Meanwhile, I fear it's wait for Diesel Bob.

John

PS The engine is a 2.4L DuraTorque DI Turbo Diesel, originally producing 124Ps (123bhp)    Is that the  self destructing type, Nick?

Edited September 25, 2024 by JohnD

[thebrookster]

Yeah, I run Forscan on my truck, that's basically the "bees knees" for Fords. You do need a suitable link cable for that however, I use vLinker FS USB.

My cheap one appears to read the truck, however it only sees the engine control module, nothing else. As my main use is for ascertaining which ABS sensor has failed (a common issue with Ford Trucks) I had to upgrade. Forscan software is free however, which is bonus. Don't get tricked into thinking you have to pay for the licence, the software will read and clear codes without it.

[JohnD]

Thanks, Phil!

[Nick Jones]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

PS The engine is a 2.4L DuraTorque DI Turbo Diesel, originally producing 124Ps (123bhp)    Is that the  self destructing type, Nick?

Is it the TDDI (injection pump) or TDCI (common rail). Solenoid comments apply to the former.  Or what year mk6 or mk7?

[JohnD]

2002, Mk6, Nick.

 

[JohnD]

The TRansit is dead - long live the TRansit!

The diesel knock was treated by my local guru 'Deisel Bob'.    To cure would cost more than the van was worth, so he 'fixed' it but with only 30 days guarantee.  And I flogged it, quick!

But I need a TRansit, and found another.  Needs work, but fitted by a cabinet maker with all the mod cons, except for a tow bar!  Which will ne corrected soon.

Onwards!  En avant!

John

[mpbarrett]

looks very nice. But does it have the wet belt engine?

[Mark]

Very nice van!