Vintage Voltage

[JohnD]

Anyone seen this on "Quest"?   Tonight's episode converts an Isetta 300 3-wheeler.    Noticed that the single driveshaft has a Rotaflex coupling!   No programme mention, was that original?

John

[Nick Jones]

Just finished watching. I quite like them. Even if Moggy is the one who told me it would cost £45k for parts to convert the GT6 or £60k for them to do it.

They do a nice job for sure but spendy!!

[Escadrille Ecosse]

I watch it occasionally. Not seen this one yet. An electric Isetta is certainly different.

Quality work but as Nick says it is so far beyond my means that it is up there with Yani and his supercars.

And like so many of these programmes I get slightly frustrated when the personal back stories and 'scenes of mild peril' are given higher production priority than the engineering detail. Although I do appreciate that that's what the majority of the TV audience probably want.

[JohnD]

11 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Just finished watching. I quite like them. Even if Moggy is the one who told me it would cost £45k for parts to convert the GT6 or £60k for them to do it.

They do a nice job for sure but spendy!!

Took me back a bit, when the presenter collected the car from the owners and asked what budget they were giving the builders.      I think she said "£30-40,000", just like that!!

Edited March 4, 2022 by JohnD

[Nick Jones]

9 hours ago, JohnD said:

Took me back a bit, when the presenter collected the car from the owners and asked what budget they were giving the builders.      I think she said "£30-40,000", just like that!!

Yes.... must be nice to have that kind of disposable cash around.  As I've said before, I reckon it would be about £12 - 15K for decent quality major parts, though not Tesla stuff.  Still more than I feel like spending!

[JohnD]

They kept on saying of the Isetta,  "Oooooooooeeeer, this is so small, it's going to be difficult to fit in enough batteries!" and  complaining about the weight.     Then they pulled out the seat and Lo!, there was enough room for 100miles worth!     OK, they'd never seen one before.     

But locking the gear box in third?    It needs a transmission, but this was a three wheeler, no diff required!      The OE engine was from a BMW motorbike, surely they could have sourced a chain drive that would fit?     OR, mount the motor longitudinally, and sourced a shaft drive, that BMW have been making for bikes since the 1930s?

John

 

[Nick Jones]

Yeah, I do wonder how 3rd gear is going to hold up in the longer term.

 

[Gt64fun]

An interesting program but I do cringe at some points. I suppose the creation of a sense of jeopardy is all part of the art of tv.

Watching someone prise apart gearbox casings with screwdrivers and then bang on about failure of the gaskets and making sure it's oil-tight or it could cause 100's of pounds on damage...really!

Would be nice if they would present the actual costs of the build at the end of the program. Some big numbers get talked about but it's difficult to see where the actually costs are if they don't explain.

Ian

[Nick Jones]

Indeed. The new CNC bellhousing was nice. But that and the fabricated battery box hardly add up to 30k and nor should a single smallish electric motor and 45kWh of Li batteries.

And good luck with the (small) rotoflex coupling…..

The owners already had an I3 on the drive so I guess they are into EVs.

Which reminds me (tangent alert!), in the next village there is a small house with two EVs on the drive. An I3 and a Tesla. But never seen them plugged in and there appears to be no charging points….. Odd.

[JohnD]

Didn't Tesla (the Nikola) invent a way of transmitting power wirelessly?

[Nick Jones]

Indeed there is known technology. It involves coils and magnetic fields, same principle as transformers. Poor efficiency unless conditions are closely controlled.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

3 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Indeed there is known technology. It involves coils and magnetic fields, same principle as transformers. Poor efficiency unless conditions are closely controlled.

Wireless charging best for things like phones and other small devices with low power transfer rates.

[Gt64fun]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:31 PM, Nick Jones said:

hardly add up to 30k

Agreed. I suspect the control gear is quite expensive and fairly expensive on the labour for fitting etc., but would be good to see a breakdown. 

Perhaps we should ask Moggy!

Ian

[JohnD]

An EV on the road, or even in your garage is all very well - but in your living room?

 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Hmmm. That went well.

[Nick Jones]

 

I’d have got out sooner…..

Charging indoors not recommended?

[mpbarrett]

Just been watching this where they convert a Beetle. 40~50k for the conversion and then a dealer plans to sell it for 70k! For a crap 1970's VW Beetle...
And it only has a range of 100 miles (so real world cold winter range  about 60 miles). I guess there is a market for conversions like this but does not seem  very attractive.
Maybe I am just old school, I want to be able to take my Herald out for a good fast run which could easily be 50 or 60 miles on a sunny day (or 10 countries in 4 days, or RBRR 2k in 48hour), its all about the driving, not posing that I have a classic car I can drive to some car show and appear to a green driver.
But I suppose if you spend 45K on a good TR5, you are not going to hammer it around the Scottish NC500 over a few days, which I have done with mates and  has been so much fun to do.... Maybe there is a market for shiny old cars that people just buy for owning not driving (just look at the adverts in Classic and sports car  mags).
Oh how the old car scene is changing.

Mike
BTW sorry I have never liked Beetles....

 

 

[Nick Jones]

13 hours ago, mpbarrett said:

BTW sorry I have never liked Beetles....

Nor I. I always liked the (apocryphal) tale that they were originally intended to be washing machines but is proved impossible to stop them wandering about on spin cycle, so they changed the design aim…..

And I’m with you on the rest. I’ve done (and still do) a lot of thinking about EV conversion of a classic, but baulk at the likely £15 - £20k cost (and 6months  work) for 100 mile range. Also thinking about a trailer “range extender” with lpg generator, but even then…..

[Gt64fun]

14 hours ago, mpbarrett said:

Just been watching this where they convert a Beetle. 40~50k for the conversion

All that work but still retained the original gearbox (now handling 3x the power and probably >5x the torque, without an overall as well) and the notoriously dangerous swing axle rear suspension.

With a declared conversion cost of £45k, I'm not surprised the 'business model' didn't work.

 

[Gt6s]

1 hour ago, Gt64fun said:

All that work but still retained the original gearbox (now handling 3x the power and probably >5x the torque, without an overall as well) and the notoriously dangerous swing axle rear suspension.

With a declared conversion cost of £45k, I'm not surprised the 'business model' didn't work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do not like the program I dissaprove of the LIES THEY TELL ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY. Watching it leaves me cross and a bad taste in my mouth. They fail to recognise the vast majority can NEVER have off street doorstep charging. Read a piece about a delivery driver his firm had changed his vehicle for an electric. Previous diesel usage £100 No £138. He must carry a blanket to prevent heater usage. Bear in mind Britians motorways are plauged by traffic jams of two hours and upwards. Ever been on the M6 at the ship canal ? HOW DOES EV STAND UP TO THIS IN WINTER cold wet summers even ? EV Stick it where the sun dont shine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Gt64fun said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Gt64fun said:

All that work but still retained the original gearbox (now handling 3x the power and probably >5x the torque, without an overall as well) and the notoriously dangerous swing axle rear suspension.

With a declared conversion cost of £45k, I'm not surprised the 'business model' didn't work.

 

 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Likewise never a great fan of the Beetle although I suppose I understand why others at least like the idea of it. Terribly hippy and 'nuclear power nein danke'.

In general though it's that in spite of the enormous cost of these conversions what you end up with is something that is very much less than the original. And I'm ignoring 'originality' here.

One of the major benefits of electric motors is their broad speed range and initial torque - you could argue that with the 100 mile range, exhorbitant cost and loss of luggage space it's the motor driveability and the elimination of the weakness, noise and maintenance of the gearbox would be about the only benefit.

But pretty much every one of these conversions fails in that respect.

I suspect hydrocarbons will be around for a while still - if nothing else we are going to need them to charge the latest 'magic bullet' that is heat pumps.