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I have fitted an oil temp gauge

Tested it with boiling water and it’s good.

Something  else to worry about - yes :confused:

my car has always had an oil cooler but with out a thermostat. From PO fitting.

the oil just doesn’t get hot 50/60c on a run. 
Admittedly it’s been quite cool lately but did a hour plus run in the Derbyshire hills.

can oil be too cold. 
oil pressure is good

no water emulsion 
 

I could just put a loop pipe in and bypass the oil cooler. See how it goes.

but a found on old thread by Alan (old tuckunder) where he had similar concerns and tried the oil filter adapter heat exchanger. To warm the oil for sprints and hill climbs. ( nice that he is still guiding my thoughts around racing.)

I don’t think the oil filter type would fit my car as it doesn’t use the spin on canister type
 

I was thinking of doing similar with my 3a but using one of these remote type  water oil heat exchangers and bin the air oil cooler.

 

GENUINE FREELANDER 2 TD4 DIESEL OIL TO WATER COOLER 6G917A095AD

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233247146019
 

 

anyone any experience. It’s similar to VAG versions. That I know some of you know well. 

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Would be very much simpler to fit an inline thermostat to your existing cooler, though that wouldn’t bring the quicker warm-up benefit, which is useful in the hill climb context.

The device you link to would do the job, but plumbing might be painful - not familiar enough with TR3 to really comment on that. I know it would be a right sod on a Vitesse as the water is mostly on the opposite side to the oil.

I know Alan managed it, but it was a pretty complex setup and he had bearing failures egging him on. Think he used a Laminova heat exchanger. Good kit if a little spendy 

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I used a Laminova oilto water cooler on Silverback , coz I didn't want any air getting in under the bonnet.   It worked fine.

Can't post a pic as I'm away from home on my phone

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Hello Hamish

                      I have to ask the question why have you fitted an Aluminium sump if it is not getting warm enough?

50/60c sounds like a engine killer

The plumbing on Alans Vitesse was !!!! not what I wanted for a road car but I could see it would work for quicker warm ups for sprinting and he had a pre oiler as well! (belt and braces !) but he had run a few big ends at 6000/6500rpm

And wrecked one Max Speeling rod!

I would fit a thermostat oil the oil line as you do not want oil going around the cooler until its 80/90c 

Roger

ps perhaps keep the level to the bottom of the stick if the sump is baffled  1.5 gallons is a lot to get warm for sprinting!

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Thanks for the quick replies. 
 

the Ali sump was fitted as it was available bling and I thought you can’t have too much oil. But it’s only about an extra 0.5L.
 

it’s only because the sump has the extra boss to fit a temp gauge that I now know the oil temp. Apart from the Ali sump it’s had an air oil cooler without a stat for 30+ years so I presume the low oil temps have been the same for that time.
 

I was considering an inline stat for a while but a found these heat exchangers then Alans thread and thought  heating the oil was a good idea especially on sprint hill climb days. 
 
I should be able to find space for the remote heat exchanger on the inner wing and the oilways are very accessible on the nearside instead of the the current cooler. Also there is a convenient water bypass hose on the same side. So I guess oil and water plumbing is do-able.

I may try a short U bend bypass tube to see what oil temps I get without the cooler.

H

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  • 2 weeks later...

So a Jaguar XF heat exchanger has arrived and it appears the hot water can be from the cabin heater return and the oil can be instead of the feed and return for the oil cooler. 
 

hope it may warm up oil quicker and stabilise oil / coolant temps. 
 

794765E2-3D62-415A-B93C-DD24670B7268.jpeg

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It fits under that oil catch tank on the inside inner wing.

The water from the heater will follow the blue arrow. With the bulk head rubber elbow swivelling down to connect to the exchanger pipe reducer.

and a return via new hose along the yellow route. 
 

the oil will be from the current filter sandwich plate connections that have been to / from the oil cooler.

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12 hours ago, PeteStupps said:

Nice. Dinky little thing - I imagined it would be bigger. 

 

 

and HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD THAT PETE  :laugh:

 

 

sorry couldn't resist.

 

i admit there is no science behind this its an idea that has escalated since fitting an oil temp gauge- and it stayed ridiculously low.

the car has always had an oil cooler without a stat. and always had good oil pressure. i expect the pressure to come down a bit if the temps go up.

i emptied the oil/vapour catch tank ( the black tank above) whilst fitting the exchanger and the water and sludge that came out was surprising and I'm glad its not in the engine. its a home made system filled with stainless kitchen scourers very effective.

 

struggling with adapter threads at the moment for the oil feed looking like 1/2bsp to M16 and the supplier sent 5/8th to M16 a little frustrating

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Hamish said:

and HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD THAT PETE  :laugh:

:biggrin: it was a bit of an open goal... 

What is the optimum working temp for oil, does anyone know? And does it depend on load / speed / viscousity? 

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Hello All

              Our modern sits at 90deg

Plus at least as warm as the water to stop condensation etc

I fitted a 80deg thermostat into my oil cooler and now on my New Smiths guage and New sensor it sits just under 90dec the same as the new water temperature guage so I assume they are both right or both wrong!

But oil temperature goes up when in slow traffic and no airflow over oil cooler but drop as soon as we pick up a bit of speed!

Roger

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2 hours ago, PeteStupps said:

:biggrin: it was a bit of an open goal... 

What is the optimum working temp for oil, does anyone know? And does it depend on load / speed / viscousity? 

all my inter web reading also suggests about 90c is optimum and that our modern mineral oil will withstand 120c and synthetic more than this.

the 90c will drive off the moisture - doesn't need to be 100c to "boil"it off and short trips is the curse for any oil.

my tr3a water temp is 185 to 207F ( sorry for mixing units - its what's on the gauges) this is 85c to 97c. the upper end being the max the temp reaches before coming down with the elec rad fan.

on recent trips the oil was getting to maybe 50/60c hence the sludge in the catch tank i think.

thus i am hoping the heat exchanger whilst only small may balance out these temps a bit but concentrating more on warming the oil as i think this is where most of the wear attrition is. especially on sprint and hillclimb competition days. where the coolant temp can quickly rise so the elec fan comes on whilst lining up and no airflow  through the rad but the oil i'm sure is not getting at all warm.

it may be the sensible thing  to just remove the oil cooler ?

and i hope to just fit a simple bypass hose to check that on a spirited run

then another day try the heat exchanger.

but it is an experiment with a small "e" and it will have cost me about £40 in pipe,  fittings and the heat exchanger to find out if the heat exchanger idea is a folly or not.

not about this weekend to find out though !! so testing will have to wait.

 

 

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I would be tempted to bypass the cooler and see what that does. You can also get thermostatically controlled “automatic bypass” devices, which I would consider essential for any cooler install.

I suspect that you only need the cooler for long stretches of fast road work (and then only marginally) or for track use.  So it could be argued to just remove it. But as mentioned before, the (rather cute) device you have there brings the benefit of heating the oil - useful in the hill climb scenario......

Not sure I’m properly understanding how the oil connections work ......?

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The Spitfire has a stat for the oil cooler. Does the job pretty well. 

For me the sprint/ hillclimb engine warming protocol prior to giving the car the beans was to run the engine until the radiator fan was cutting in and the oil cooler was 'toasty'.

On a cold day that might be a good few minutes.

My concern then was more the cold oil in the gearbox and diff, and getting front and rear tyres and the brakes warmed up bit.

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1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Not sure I’m properly understanding how the oil connections work ......?

Nick

my tr has a simple sandwich plate on the filter housing to facilitate the oil cooler feed and return.
I’m just replacing the oil cooler with a simple U pipe bypass to check temps without any cooler or heater. 
or to fit the feed and return to the heat exchanger oil connections.  
hope this helps. ?

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Yes, I got that part, but I wasn’t clear. I was looking at the hose connections on your new heat exchanger and wondering what sort of connections are used to make the oil circuit joints as they don’t look like hose barbs....

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Is the idea that an oil-water heat exchanger will mean you don't require a thermostat in the oil circuit as it's thermally linked to the coolant circuit?  i.e. it will add heat to the oil when the oil is colder than the coolant, and remove it if hotter than the coolant?  Do you need to change the coolant stat at all, or is the standard 84°C one fine?

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Thanks nick

Just back from many hours on the m5 and 6

egret yes you have the idea correct get it warm then balance the temps my coolant temps are 85 to 97 controlled by the fan  

i haven’t a clue if it will work tho !:blush:

 

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On 5/18/2021 at 9:51 PM, Nick Jones said:

Yes, I got that part, but I wasn’t clear. I was looking at the hose connections on your new heat exchanger and wondering what sort of connections are used to make the oil circuit joints as they don’t look like hose barbs....

Can one solder copper to Ali? With ordinary solder, Ali properly cleaned and fluxed ?

have been thinking of your comment and wondering if I could solder a copper wire ring around the Ali connections.?

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Google suggests it may be possible to solder/braze aluminium to copper, though frankly I wouldn’t want to be trying it on that.

Been trying to get sight of the original fittings that go on there and they seem to be bigger versions of the quick release fuel line connections. Not sure how amenable they would be to being fitted to new hose?

Other possibility is using compression fittings - only possible if the stubs are a sensible size though.

 

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Posted (edited)

Today was a day off so had many fun hours in the garage fitting the oil pipes and fittings for my heat exchanger project. 
the new 1/2bsp m16 adapter thread locked and sealed into the sandwich plate. The new 90degree elbows fitted to sandwich plate. Arranged so they don’t get in the way of the  dipstick.

1/2 oil pipe ( quite inflexible isn’t it ) routed behind dizzy and coil and into heat exchanger unit.

a bit of targeted heat on the pipes got it over the flare ridge on the bottom of the pipe that the mikalor clip tightens over (couldn’t get solder to bind to Ali for a flare at the tip)

cranked the car over without starting to get oil pressure up / thus heat exchanger full.

I have since run the car up to temp didn’t take long for the coolant to get to 185 to 207F  on the gauge with the fan kicking in and out.

took ages (over20 mins) for the oil to get to 140/160F in the sump. And the heat exchanger unit. At +2000 rpm in the garage.

next step is connecting up the coolant from the car heater plumbing.

 

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Edited by Hamish
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Hi Guys

i have tried to take your advice with regards to clamping the oil hoses. I tried to get the original plastic clips. But not that easy without buying another unit with them included or the hose set.

so I looked for beading tool and there are some great ones out there but far away ( usa) and/or expensive.

https://www.earls.co.uk/earls/accessories/tools/beadingtools.html

there are also some ingenious diy tools on youtube.

but i came to my ability options 

very low tech as you will have come to expect of me. 
 

I have adapted a mikalor clip so that there is a band either side of the pipe bead/ridge.

it seems very secure and I have made the water connections and it all seems to work. 
oil temps come up far quicker 

only tested in the garage at a constant 2000rpm

so a road test is needed.

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