Fiesta swimming pool

[Escadrille Ecosse]

My wife has a 2009 Mk 6 Fiesta as the family hack. Great little car to drive but some questionable design decisions in the construction.

In the last 6 months it has started to leak into the boot from somewhere into the space behind the slam panel and then draining into the spare wheel well. She has had it in to the independent garage on three occasions now and it still leaks. And apparently getting worse too.

So this afternoon I stripped out all the trim from the back. Found a couple of dodgy grommets that were obviously weeping but none near the slam panel. However there are lots of overlapping joints in the area of the flange under the boot seal which could be the culprit.

There was evidence of some kind of white mastic around the flange, non-setting but not super sticky like the black screen seal. More like putty. Does anyone know what this stuff is called as I want to get some more?

Cheers folks

[Nick Jones]

There used to be something called DumDum (by Eldro) that fits your description but I believe NLA, though I did find this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUM-DUM-DUMDUM-MORRIS-MINOR-BOLT-ON-PANEL-SEALER-BUTYL-ROLL-SEALANT-BONDING-/371131714218

(The stuff I remember came in a tin)

If you just want to keep water out, Tigerseal takes a bit of beating,  Sticks like the proverbial - especially to fabrics and human skin!

Suggesting checking around the rear light clusters for leakage - absolutely prime location

 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

17 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

There used to be something called DumDum (by Eldro) that fits your description but I believe NLA, though I did find this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUM-DUM-DUMDUM-MORRIS-MINOR-BOLT-ON-PANEL-SEALER-BUTYL-ROLL-SEALANT-BONDING-/371131714218

(The stuff I remember came in a tin)

If you just want to keep water out, Tigerseal takes a bit of beating,  Sticks like the proverbial - especially to fabrics and human skin!

Suggesting checking around the rear light clusters for leakage - absolutely prime location

 

Cheers Nick. I remember dum-dum. Might try the other stuff you suggest. 

Reluctant to use Tigetseal as the first option for exactly the characteristics you mention!

As a first try I'd prefer to try something non permanent so I can experiment before gluing anything together permanently. Just in case I have to take anything back off for access.

Light cluster yes. Garage already welded that on with tigerseal 

Same with some of the seams visible with the boot open. 

 

[zetecspit]

You could try an LMN silicone sealant. Still damn strong when gone off, but nothing like PU adhesives. 

[JMH]

Had the same problem with an old Mazda once.

Always funny standing at the petrol station filling up my car while - at the same time - draining lots of water out from the spare wheel well by removing a grommet there. When someone was pointing out the fuel was running out, I always just told it was normal on a Mazda :-)

[Escadrille Ecosse]

8 minutes ago, JMH said:

When someone was pointing out the fuel was running out, I always just told it was normal on a Mazda :-)

Same thing with my Hillman Avenger back in the day.

Mind you this happened on my Scimitar when a perished blanking cap fell off a redundant fitting on the petrol tank. Full to the brim with 20 gallons of petrol. 

Soon had a lake under the car. Was completely safe though because the attendant put up a cone. 

Managed to fix it with a pen cap taken from the attendant but got covered in petrol in the process.

Thanks for the suggestions gents I'll let you know how it goes.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

An update. I ordered the butyl sealant which duly arrived. However...

It has a very different consistency and stick properties to the dum-dum putty I remember. Firmer and with a lot less initial tack. As a result it seems to much prefer sticking to itself unless maintained under load for a bit. Not much use for filling small gaps between existing panels which is what I was trying to do unfortunately.

Since my last post on this it has been almost completely rain free in Glasgow (all very good) so no opportunity to observe where water might be coming in (a bit more inconvenient).

So resorted to good old fashioned black windscreen seal. Horrid stick stuff but as the places I'd identified and possible culprits are hidden under the boot seal not really. I am also suspecting that the boot seal itself is not in the best of health where it joins at the bottom of the aperture. Something to keep an eye on.

On the basis of the advice given above I also had a look behind the rear light clusters. The nylon inserts that take a couple of fixing screws are supposed to be sealed with a soft fibre gasket. These all looked a bit iffy so out with the windscreen seal again and also a very thin skim on the gasket that is supposed to seal the light unit.

We wait and see.....

 

[Nick Jones]

Good luck....

The Soot Monster has a leak somewhere at the back. The boot seal is prime suspect as it does look a bit jaded and the other suspects have been dealt with. Boot seals are NLA from Audi (largely irrelevant as the last price for them is north of £250!) so I’ve drilled a couple of holes in the fibreglass spare wheel well so what gets in can get straight out.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

On 3/21/2021 at 4:26 PM, Nick Jones said:

The Soot Monster has a leak somewhere at the back. The boot seal is prime suspect as it does look a bit jaded and the other suspects have been dealt with. Boot seals are NLA from Audi (largely irrelevant as the last price for them is north of £250!) so I’ve drilled a couple of holes in the fibreglass spare wheel well so what gets in can get straight out.

Highway robbery!!! or at least it would have been

Simple solutions that utilise nothing more than the basic forces of nature (gravity in this case) are always the most satisfying.

Anyway. The other day I noticed some condensation inside one of the light clusters that I'd not noticed before. Still hadn't rained by that point so it may be that I disturbed something taking it all apart and that was the culprit?

We had some rain last night. Had a look this morning - still dry but will wait and see a little longer before reassembling the trim.

[Nick Jones]

You know the gods are waiting for you to put the trim back..... 

[JohnD]

Not mine!

[Nick Jones]

That doesn’t look like rainwater......

[Escadrille Ecosse]

WC Fields, "I never drink water, fish make love in it"

[Escadrille Ecosse]

2 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

You know the gods are waiting for you to put the trim back..... 

Oh yes....

[JohnD]

I've seen what water does to the bottom of boats!

[Escadrille Ecosse]

It's been raining.

Boot dry but I could just see water in between the however many panels that make up the lower sill of the hatch through one of the holes for the trim fixings.

I have ordered one of these mini endoscope things for my phone to try and get a view of what is happening behind all the panels. Was a good excuse as I was hankering after one anyway.

However I am getting increasingly to the point where if I can take off the rear bumper and find a suitable location I'm just going to drill one or more holes to let the bloody water back out.

Grrrr

[foshi]

hi they let water in the light seal take the rear light unit out you will see water enters that way ,while working in a local bodyshop ,they had one come in boot full of water took them a day to trace the fault.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Cheers @foshi

I had a look there and had a go at sealing it up. However might not have got it right as one of the seals was a bit dodgy. 

The endoscope arrived the other day. And been waiting for the opportunity to have a look in the back of the car as it's been mostly dry up here for the last few days. Bloody cold and windy but dry. 

Tonight it's cold and windy... and wet. So may get a chance tomorrow.

I'll start around the lights 

[foshi]

there is a grommet on the base behind the light cluster they put a small hole in it as back up.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Everything has been out a second time. Still the only evidence of water is the puddle in the rear sill cavity that then overflows across the boot floor and into the wheel well.

Put everything back with more sealing goop - nah. Water in the boot. FFS!

Then... the boot open warning started coming on. The light on the dash is neither here nor there. The message on the clock/radio display is annoying. However the monotonous bing of the audible alarm is quickly unbearable. Internet search suggested that boot open = water in the latch. Ta da!

Relatively straightforward to get to the latch. Take out three screws and prise off the three bits of trim. Managed to lose only one of the stupid spring clips into the boot panel in the process as well. Good news is everything was all dry, which I guess was also the bad news.

Catch is a strange combination of very clever and slightly home made looking and incorporates the motor for the boot release and remote lock and the microswitch for the hatch open alarm which would appear to be the bit that's failed. A new latch assembly is £30 and not sure the car is worth it. So cut and short the wires to work out which provide the alarm. Red/black is the alarm and red/green the boot light. A quick solder and heat shrink and put it all back together. Unfortunately it means doing without the boot light but we can cope.

This is where it gets slightly weird. Testing the switch both the dash light and the message on the display showed as expected. As they did for the doors. However having soldered it all up and put it back together the dash light still works but the display no longer does for any open door.

Think the car had been getting lessons from Nick's Audi(s).

All well and good there but no further forward with the water ingress so rear bumper off. Was a remarkably straightforward job - with the exception of the four expanding plastic clips that hold the arch liners to the bumper. The centre pins had somehow managed to seize solid - they're plastic. However some directed energy application from under the car eventually did the trick.

No evidence of any leak. Or potential leak path. So sod it. I drilled three 10mm holes into the sill cavity behind the bumper and put it all back together.

We shall see how that goes.

On a positive note. Fed up with complaints about needing a new car that has air conditioning before the weather gets any warmer I gave it a go. I was surprised at how much fan noise produced so little airflow. So I removed the cabin filter and gave it a shot. Fan was still at max and the face level vents were open when I started up and it quite literally took my breath away. New filter fitted and the immediate replacement of the car has been delayed briefly at least.

 

[PaulAA]

31 minutes ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

On a positive note. Fed up with complaints about needing a new car that has air conditioning before the weather gets any warmer I gave it a go. I was surprised at how much fan noise produced so little airflow. So I removed the cabin filter and gave it a shot. Fan was still at max and the face level vents were open when I started up and it quite literally took my breath away. New filter fitted and the immediate replacement of the car has been delayed briefly at least.

 

I had this on the lad's W124.  It doesn't have aircon, but the blower was asthmatic and had an annoying squeak at anything above setting 'I'

Mr Google provided a film explaining what to do - access is from ahead of the firewall, but easy and straightforward and, having cleared thirty years' of dead... stuff... a small amount of grease was applied to the cylinder fan bearings.  Setting 'I' now removes loose items of clothing and setting 'II' is roughly equivalent to Beaufort Scale 9, visibly rippling the cheeks of the front seat occupants.

We've not tried setting 'III' yet, lest it does structural damage.

Paul

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Just now, PaulAA said:

We've not tried setting 'III' yet, lest it does structural damage.

Paul

[Escadrille Ecosse]

The wee green beastie was getting ever more reluctant to turn over on the starter so thought I would take a look.

Started with volt drop tests as seemed the 'least difficult' to achieve. Battery standing voltage was a good 12.6V and on cranking didn't drop below about 12 with a charging voltage of about 14.6 so all good there.

Next was to check between the battery and solenoid live. Tricky. From the top of the engine you can just about see the solenoid terminals but can't get to them.

So jack up and block the front of the car enouch to wriggle under and now I can just about reach the terminals but can't see them. So a bit of fumbling about to get the croc clip attached to the switched side of the solenoid and give it a whirl.

9V is supposed to be the limit for an acceptable volts drop. I got 4.6V or so. Well there you go.

With a mirror and some contortion I managed to get a decent look at the terminals. The switched side of the solenoid was good but the nut on the live side was very rusty. Disconnected the feed from the battery terminal - after a bit of investigation to work ot which of the three cables it was.

Going by feel I managed to get the nut off the solenoid end and it was very rusty although the post looked ok. Couldn't get the cable off at first though as it turned out the terminal was combined with the starter cable so some more fiddling got both off and I could get a look.

Cable ends OK fortunately but the nut and associated washer was well past it so binned them, cleaned everything up as best I could and put it all back togeter with new nuts and spring washers.

All back together and the starter whirred away much more happily with about 10.5V this time. Some waxoyl on the terminals will hopefully stop a repeat. Also replaced the nut on the lower starter motor mount which had mysteriously disappeared although the moter itself was solid.

All good except it took me best part of 2 hours to do that instead of maybe 20 minutes at most with the Spitfire.

[Nick Jones]

Well done. Nice simple fix and almost parts free.  Result!
 

Garage would have fitted a new starter motor and accidentally cured the real problem in the process, before charging you at least £250.

TT would have taken you more than 2 hours….