1970 GT6 MK2

[PeteStupps]

9 hours ago, Speedysix said:

And I'm guessing everyone is going to say steer clear of cams from rimmer,canley etc?

Sounds like you've settled on Newman but just to say, I bought a 4-cyl camshaft & followers from Canleys for my 1300fwd, and have had no issues. It's been transferred from one engine to another, and covered a few thousand miles now.

Chris Witor also does 6 cylinder cams: https://www.chriswitor.com/products.php?cat=254&pg=2

Lastly, before I did my Spitfire engine rebuild I was pondering whether to use the standard 25-65 cam or something more spicy. Ended up sticking with standard and haven't regretted it. Larger exhaust valves, a bit of amateur porting and a decent tubular exhaust manifold seem to give it a hint of extra pep without losing drivability.

I've driven a Spit with a Kent (?) fast road cam, not terribly well setup at the time, and it didn't impress. I'm sure it could have been better, but it takes a bit more effort to get optimal results with non-standard gear.

[Steve 13-60]

I'm with you on using near standard profiles. The one I bought from Canleys was the MK3 spitfire profile, which is supposed to be pretty good. Went for the PH1 (I think) from Newman, it has a tad more lift but not so much duration if I remember correctly. The engine is still in bits awaiting rebuild.....assuming I can find all the parts again!

[Steve 13-60]

Hoping to get back on the Herald later this year, but first I need to sell the kitcar.....if anyone is interested!

It'll be on eBay soon, just moved house so waiting for the v5 to come back.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

In my experience the 2L will run very happily (and effectively) on the TR5 cam which is more aggressive than the Newman PH1 cam.

If going for a Newman I would either get them to grind a TR cam or their PH2 unless you are planning on moving away from SU/Stromberg carbs.

 

 

[Nick Jones]

From Newman…. I would suggest either their PH1, which at 260 duration (but .250 lift) is the mildest and will give similar results to the OE cam, or their PH2 which is a 280 duration and is the limit for CD carbs IMO.

They will also grind the OE Mk2 cam or TR5/6 cam (same cost as advertised for standard range in my previous experience). Note that they recommend nitrided steel followers for all but the PH1. These are expensive but seem to work (30k on mine so far)

These expensive followers will likely be just fine. The other though need careful checking for finish and also that the faces are flat and not slightly crowned. The first set I was supplied were crowned ones….. they changed them (to the steel ones) without quibble though!

Otherwise try Chris Witor. I know at least a couple on here have his version of the OE 308778 with increased inlet lift and are pleased with it.

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

            I have a Newman PH2 in Spitty but on ITB's EFI I also went for the steel followers and at 27,000 miles I have only adjusted the valve gaps a couple of times?

I did fit bearings into the block as well!

I agree with Nick it maybe just ok on a 6 cylinder on cabs but I think would not be so good on a 4 cylinder on carbs!

Roger

[flatter4]

7 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Otherwise try Chris Witor. I know at least a couple on here have his version of the OE 308778 with increased inlet lift and are pleased with it.

 

Chris has done me a 'special' for a triple SU set up and it's fantasitic.  Highly recommended. 

Cam selection does depend on the carbs you're going to run, and the other tuning you might be carrying out.
....Though TR5 is a good selection for twin SUs or Strombergs.
 

[Speedysix]

On 5/15/2024 at 9:18 AM, Escadrille Ecosse said:

In my experience the 2L will run very happily (and effectively) on the TR5 cam which is more aggressive than the Newman PH1 cam.

If going for a Newman I would either get them to grind a TR cam or their PH2 unless you are planning on moving away from SU/Stromberg carbs.

 

 

This is something I've been finding as I've been trawling through old threads on here and the tssc forum. I think it's a bad upgrade if you have the standard strombergs but lucky me I've got the hs6 setup! I'd like to stick with that so I think either their own profile or the tr5 one. It would just be nice to find someone with the same setup

[Speedysix]

On 5/15/2024 at 8:06 AM, PeteStupps said:

Sounds like you've settled on Newman but just to say, I bought a 4-cyl camshaft & followers from Canleys for my 1300fwd, and have had no issues. It's been transferred from one engine to another, and covered a few thousand miles now.

Chris Witor also does 6 cylinder cams: https://www.chriswitor.com/products.php?cat=254&pg=2

Lastly, before I did my Spitfire engine rebuild I was pondering whether to use the standard 25-65 cam or something more spicy. Ended up sticking with standard and haven't regretted it. Larger exhaust valves, a bit of amateur porting and a decent tubular exhaust manifold seem to give it a hint of extra pep without losing drivability.

I've driven a Spit with a Kent (?) fast road cam, not terribly well setup at the time, and it didn't impress. I'm sure it could have been better, but it takes a bit more effort to get optimal results with non-standard gear.

I have seen Chris's cam options and his slightly more lift mk2 cam profile, is a good contender too.

I think it might have just been a bad batch of cams that Steve had the misfortune of having, yourself and many others have had no issues, I don't think Dave would be selling them if they weren't good! It's just the sad reality with these hit or miss quality parts nowadays, so many bad repros, I've been fortunate so far that I've not had any major ones

For the cam it's the same money, I do always order from canley but at least with newman I know I'm getting a seriously decent quality cam, just one less thing to worry about!

[Speedysix]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:32 PM, Nick Jones said:

From Newman…. I would suggest either their PH1, which at 260 duration (but .250 lift) is the mildest and will give similar results to the OE cam, or their PH2 which is a 280 duration and is the limit for CD carbs IMO.

They will also grind the OE Mk2 cam or TR5/6 cam (same cost as advertised for standard range in my previous experience). Note that they recommend nitrided steel followers for all but the PH1. These are expensive but seem to work (30k on mine so far)

These expensive followers will likely be just fine. The other though need careful checking for finish and also that the faces are flat and not slightly crowned. The first set I was supplied were crowned ones….. they changed them (to the steel ones) without quibble though!

Otherwise try Chris Witor. I know at least a couple on here have his version of the OE 308778 with increased inlet lift and are pleased with it.

I have been looking into the catalogue they have for their cam profiles. I am slightly drawn to the ph1/ph2 cams, it's just having someone with the same setup to compare it too, I don't want to spend all this time and money to find I've produced a lemon

I would rather pay a little extra for the nitrided followers, I just want zero issues with this engine for at least 30k so I'll opt for anything quality. 

I have been meaning to contact Chris about his cam, just to have a chat and to see if he is still doing flowed inlet manifolds.... I have my new one arriving next week that I will need to port out to suit my hs6's and it would be ideal to look into optimising flow. I have been looking through threads on here but always come up with conflicting information

I'll be calling Newman in the week to get a quote. Then its just head work and deciding what C.R to run with this cam

[Speedysix]

Evening All, quick update on cams....

One too many beers the other night on the dreaded Facebook marketplace, I spotted someone down the road selling a mk2 vitesse short block for 20 quid! Basically the guy was having a clear out and for 20 quid and a fivers fuel, I thought why not! It's useful as a spare block and crank down the line which is pretty good considering my track record!

Basically your typical scrap useless engine, slightly siezed too. The chap also had the head (517528) too which he let me have for a tenner after a chat about all things triumph! The only downside to all this was that my lower back has had the equivalent of 10 back day gym workouts getting the sodding engine out of the boot and up the drive. It was all together and I couldn't get the crane down there...anyway, after stripping it, rather annoyingly the crank looks pretty good! Standard bearings too so a very good spare.

Now I had settled on the tr5 cam after the demise of the mk2 cam, but.... I've been costing it all up in my head, new cam, head work, manifold work, rolling road, needles and springs.... a lot of investment. So If say a good gt6 mk2 cam appeared in front of me I think it's not the worst idea in the world to take it! After all the car will be much more responsive and have a small improvement in power from doing the head work, so it's still a gain in performance... well in my head it is

I have pulled the cam out of that block, it is a 308778 mk2 gt6 cam. A tad rusty but not on the lobes. I cleaned the journals off and bearing faces, inserted it into my current block and again using the dti, an old follower and a pushrod, measured it.

In order of 1 to 12:

0.233, 0.231,0.232,0.233,0.231,0.231,0.233, 0.231, 0.232, 0.232, 0.231, 0.231

Obviously there are a few minor measuring errors there so plus or minus a mm (dti is in mm), still this looks usable?

The only downside is the followers had fallen out, I do have about 3 engines worth of followers in my spares box so I assume they can be refaced and reused?

My only concern is using somthing like this, but surely based on those measurements, it's basically factory spec so no worry if it's gone through the hardening layer? Out of my depth here l, basically can I get away with it?

I will be inspecting the cam properly shortly to make sure there's no pitting

Jacob

[Nick Jones]

Sounds like you’ve won a usable cam there.

The followers thing is a bit contentious. In theory, if you can find 12 in your stash that are flat, not even a little dished and without pitting or deep circular wear marks, some would say that they can be refaced. I’ve seen it done on the side of a crank grinding wheel. My own view is that you should buy a new set.

 

[Speedysix]

8 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Sounds like you’ve won a usable cam there.

The followers thing is a bit contentious. In theory, if you can find 12 in your stash that are flat, not even a little dished and without pitting or deep circular wear marks, some would say that they can be refaced. I’ve seen it done on the side of a crank grinding wheel. My own view is that you should buy a new set.

 

What a stroke of luck! It will suffice for now, maybe I'll swap it out in the winter, this time I know I'll have the infrastructure to support the hotter cam, all it will require is some needle and spring fettling. 

I would be happier fitting new followers. Again newman for these? And would going for the nitrided ones cause any issues? I can't see them causing a problem, only if the followers are harder than the cam metal? Don't know

[RedRooster]

Buy new cam followers, but if you just want to get up and running then as above. 

 

[Speedysix]

Thanks all for all the cam advice, I will be sorting that out in the coming week. Next job is getting the block cleaned out and painted ready to take the crank.

Other jobs I've manage to get done here and there was stripping down the doors. The gaps between the top of the glass and the seal was terrible. Built in a hurry. Also was a good opportunity to fit new weatherstrips properly again because of shoddy instalation the last time. It also allowed me to see the level of rust in the door and rust proof.

I did this for both of the doors and fiddled with the striker plate too as it had moved over time. I absolutely hate the interior door handle and winder handle because of that stupid pin and spring setup, such a pain to do! I'm very happy and hopefully should have less water coming in than before.

With 90%of the engine bits refurbed, the only thing that's always annoyed me is the ally bits. Painting them silver looks naff after a while, so I found a chap locally who does vapour blasting. Basically brings it looking brand new

Before And after. For 20 quid, I'm very pleased, just improves the engine bay that little bit more.

On the inside of the car there are only a handful of jobs left; Creating a boot board to go over the tank side, However this may not work as for some reason my mk1 tank seems to sit a little higher, that may have been from when it exploded but it's relatively flat, I'll have to check it. Second is fit some inertia belts, third is sort out my spares pack I carry in the boot and it's very extensive, I may even get a spare d1 as I currently don't have a spare wheel in the boot. The last thing inside is the sunvisors, just redesigning the brackets basically.

There's lots of touch up painting to be done and the rear seem between the rear valance and the rear panel needs to be sanded back and repainted as its all bubbled up sadly, but not a big deal. I will also give the car a good clean and then get some various grades of compound on the polisher to try and restore some shine.

So much to do and summer is just around the corner!

Jacob

 

[RedRooster]

Yup the joy of fitting the door interior bits, been there done that, then done it again, then took it all apart again.... 

RR 

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, Speedysix said:

for some reason my mk1 tank seems to sit a little higher, that may have been from when it exploded but it's relatively flat, I'll have to check it

My mk3 one seems chubbier than it should be. I think this is from our repeated pressure testing when trying to eliminate all leaks after repair, even though I was careful to keep the pressure low!

Door furniture ….. 

[Speedysix]

15 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Yup the joy of fitting the door interior bits, been there done that, then done it again, then took it all apart again.... 

RR 

It's honestly one of the worst jobs on the car. I think there is a special tool that holds the spring back and pushes the pin in. Still, not a job I want to do for a while!

[Speedysix]

15 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

My mk3 one seems chubbier than it should be. I think this is from our repeated pressure testing when trying to eliminate all leaks after repair, even though I was careful to keep the pressure low!

Door furniture ….. 

Maybe the same became of mine, the mounting on the body is completely unchanged, the tank did explode once upon a time, I found a leak shorly after the car was done so I removed the tank, filled with water, emptied, repeated this a few times, well as it turns out even after 100l of water flushed through it, it didn't. Proppeled itself about 20m across the close. Used a persuader to get it back into shape, been fine ever since it just would be nice to get a board across there. I'm always on the look out for a good second hand mk2 tank

[Nick Jones]

Tanks are available new at this point….. not horrifically expensive….

[Gt64fun]

1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Tanks are available new at this point….. not horrifically expensive….

I have recently bought one from Rimmers for my Mk2 , when they were offering a bit discount. Mine has ongoing internal rust issues!

Appears to be quite well made and nice and shiny inside.

Ian

[Speedysix]

On 5/28/2024 at 11:32 AM, Nick Jones said:

Tanks are available new at this point….. not horrifically expensive….

Would be nice to have a nice new one I've just bought the wood for the tank board so tomorrow I will gently try to push any bulges down on the tank with a thick bit of wood and a hammer. So long as the board fits it can be whatever shape it pleases

[Speedysix]

The tank luggage board has been missing since day one. I was always confused by the diffrent positions of the cross member bar that supports them between the arches, on mine it's so far back it's almost impossible to get the tank in and out. After looking at pictures, there is another board that continues on and is supported in front of the rear arches but I don't want it in as I use the rear seats for storage.

Anyway, I only had the template for the tank so went to wickes and bought 5.5mm ply, the thickest I'll prohably get away with the tank slightly bulged.

Jigsaw and da to smooth the edges

then a lick of paint, just some black gloss as it goes pretty flat on wood anyway

The metal support piece was just an offcut from my steel bin that was the perfect length, held on with a few rivets.

And it fits! A quick trip to b&q for some strips of felt to stick on the tank and it's perfect. The only downside, it's slightly short because the third board is supposed to sit on the bar infrastructure of it, so I'm left with a cm or so gap but I can live with it. The only downside to this arrangement is the boot carpet lengths just come as one size nowadays, the size where the bar is a few inches towards the front of the car. It also means the carpet that goes over the top of the rear tunnell and arches is short. Small downside but this has never bothered me.

The only thing missing is one of these from my other board, I have no idea what it's called and have no clue what to even search for, canley part diagrams list it as nla.

second to this im finally getting a spare wheel for the car to keep in the boot. I have a mk3 steel which will need a new tyre, hopefully I'll get away with putting 175 70 13 on it which is what all my others are on the car, that way if I do have to change it at the side of the road, that car will not drive like it's got a limp.

Only issue is I am not sure if a steel with that size will fit in the boot. Then I've got to track down a clamp. The hook is in the boot floor already which is a plus. I will want to put the wheel upside down too, so the flat face is on the boot floor, this is so I can fit all my spares and kit in the well of the wheel and not loose space.

[Nick Jones]

I had to make a couple of those anchor studs as I also could not find any to buy. Had enough trouble finding one to copy.

My spare is a mk3 (or MkIV Spit 4.5J steel with a 155/80 13 on it. That has the same rolling radius as the 175/70, which I think would be a very tight fit at best. I’ve mounted the spare face-down so I can put “stuff” inside it. I think factory is the other way up, though my particular car had no clues either way as found!

The spare won’t match my 5J fronts or 5.5J rears but at least the diameter is correct.

[PeteStupps]

On 5/28/2024 at 11:18 AM, Speedysix said:

It's honestly one of the worst jobs on the car. I think there is a special tool that holds the spring back and pushes the pin in.

How odd, I've swapped my Spitfire door handles around several times and don't find it too bad - only mildly irritating!

That boot board looks great, very professional.