Individual Throttle Body Selection

[spitfire6]

Hi,

The fabrication is not my work. Not sure why it was installed offside. Inside would have been a better choice?

Losing capacity is a pain. 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Been wondering about positioning the pump. The middle would be best but the 'dent' to clear the spring cover and the level sender are in an awkward position. Having said that just to the side of the sender body might do the job.

As for capacity yes. Has anyone experience of cutting the tank and adding a band to increase capacity on the Spitfire tank (not just buying a bigger alloy one)?

Seen it done on a Herald by Darren Groves

 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

              I fitted mine into the n/s  (R/H drive)

2 reasons I wanted to keep the fuel lines on the same side and the original suction feed pipe inside the tank is to the n/s.

So I used that as the return pipe therefore the fuel is sent to the pump side

I did fit a baffle inside but I did not get it quite right and it will cut out on left handers when the tank is 1/4 to 1/3 full(Its a bugger when touring foreign and islands!)

I managed to fit a filter behind the tank cover in the boot(one of the ones with a pipe at each end and cylindrical) something modern and cheap(should last years as the tank is clean and sealed)

Roger 

[SpitfireBGT]

Right. I've been reading, thinking, reading some more, and over thinking even more. I'm a few hours away from starting the engine on spark only using a Speeduino ECU. A few years ago I put a Nippon Denso alternator from a Kubota tractor in because it was the only one that I could find that had a V pulley. As it turns out it only puts out 40 Amps. It has been suggested that 40 Amps isn't enough to supply the injection, Spark, Fuel pumps, and cooling fans. I'm already adding an additional fuse box with 5 relays to supply everything. 

So. Those of you who have blazed this trail before me. Have you needed to upgrade the alternator, including the charge wire back to the solenoid? 

[spitfire6]

Hi,

 40 Amps to run everything is pushing it. if the 40 Amps rating is at the normal 13V then no. 

I do not understand "charge wire back to the solenoid?"

Cheers,

Iain.

 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

50 minutes ago, spitfire6 said:

Hi,

 40 Amps to run everything is pushing it. if the 40 Amps rating is at the normal 13V then no. 

I do not understand "charge wire back to the solenoid?"

Cheers,

Iain.

 

I'm assuming that's the main cable between the alternator and battery terminal on the solenoid that carries the charging current. 

This is nominal 35A cable and I would expect it to be good for the additional duty as that's what is standard on most cars and what I use on the 60A alternator on the Scimitar but I stand to be corrected 

[SpitfireBGT]

The gauge of the big brown wire from the alternator to the solenoid is 12 at best. So if I fit a more powerful alternator I should put a larger wire to carry the extra amps. I just went through my pile of scraps and found a length of 8 gauge that should work. 

Any idea how much power the wiper, blower motors, and running lights draw? or even the ECU, injectors, and coils? I'm trying to add it all up as if everything was on then add a safety factor of 10% to determine the minimum amperage alternator. Any reason not to go big on the alternator amps or would it just waste power spinning it?

[Nick Jones]

I’ve gone with 70A. Probably overkill as the only significant draw on the engine management is the pump @ 6 - 8A, but at the same time I feel 40A would be insufficient for a night run in the rain with wipers, heater blower and lights.

We've driven all night, over the Alps and right across Switzerland,  in the peeing rain and didn’t run out of electricity, so 70A is definitely enough.

I do run a helper wire direct from alternator to battery, so I don’t melt the one in the loom.

On a RHD 6 pot that’s the shortest path. On a LHD 4 pot I’d be going to the starter solenoid to pick up on the main battery cable there.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

1 hour ago, SpitfireBGT said:

The gauge of the big brown wire from the alternator to the solenoid is 12 at best. So if I fit a more powerful alternator I should put a larger wire to carry the extra amps. I just went through my pile of scraps and found a length of 8 gauge that should work. 

So this was just a trick question then  

[SpitfireBGT]

Thanks All. That's the advice I was looking for. An ounce of experience is worth a pound of speculation.

Regarding the Speeduino. You are very much on your own. It came with no documentation at all. I asked a simple question and was told to google it. The Speeduino forum is populated with a bunch of smart asses that enjoy talking down to beginners like me. I'm committed to it now and I'm  not sure that I would do it again. but it's early.

8 minutes ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

So this was just a trick question then  

I'm not being a wise ass. I left out the question mark at the end of my sentence. Is 8 Ga big enough for 70A at 12V DC?

 

[Nick Jones]

8 minutes ago, SpitfireBGT said:

The Speeduino forum is populated with a bunch of smart asses that enjoy talking down to beginners like me.

Yes..... we found this. Luckily the actual supplier, a guy in Tasmania of all places, was very helpful and was apparently awake and checking his mails 24/7. 
 

Found (and still find) the experience rather inferior to my previous Megasquirt experiences. The hardware/features for the money is hard to argue with, but the documentation and community attitude are less impressive.

You can try asking us....... (well, Chris anyway). It’s mostly sorted now, except an occasional, random misfire, which the ECU thinks isn’t happening.

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

               I have run a 40amp Nippon Denso for 2.5 years now with no problems!

I think the pump pulls about 8amps and ecu did not measures but the volt meter always shows 13.5volt

As to night driving with lights and rain I have done now and then and seems ok!

Plus while you are moving should be ok and if in slow traffic turn some lights off or wipers?

Roger

[zetecspit]

My spit runs a denso 40a jobbie, has done for 6 years/25k

It uses a golf electric intank fuel pump, as well as the ecu (negligible) electric fan (Spal 11") and all te usual stuff.

Done 3x10CR, including some very wet runs in 2015 and indeed late night stuff. Never a hint of an issue.

[rogerguzzi]

2 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

I’ve gone with 70A. Probably overkill as the only significant draw on the engine management is the pump @ 6 - 8A, but at the same time I feel 40A would be insufficient for a night run in the rain with wipers, heater blower and lights.

Hello Nick

                  I would think 70amps on a single Vee belt is pushing with out wrecking the water pump bearings or a lot of squeal(I think its why all new stuff has multi vee?)

Plus I like the Denso its small but does get hot (not that seems to bother it!)

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nick Jones]

7 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

    I would think 70amps on a single Vee belt is pushing with out wrecking the water pump bearings or a lot of squeal(I think its why all new stuff has multi vee?)

Haven’t had any problems. Doesn’t squawk.......

[rogerguzzi]

1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Haven’t had any problems. Doesn’t squawk.......

Hello Nick 

                So not using 70 amp I suspect?

Roger

[Nick Jones]

8 hours ago, rogerguzzi said:

So not using 70 amp I suspect?

Very probably not..... but possibly more than/ very close to 40A.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

12 hours ago, SpitfireBGT said:

I'm not being a wise ass. I left out the question mark at the end of my sentence. Is 8 Ga big enough for 70A at 12V DC?

And yet we keep being told that grammar doesn't matter

8 AWG is about 10mm2 so that should be perfectly fine for 70A. I would recommend soldered connectors for this sort of current though. Not a fan of crimps under any circumstances on the car but especially not high load applications.

 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

32 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Very probably not..... but possibly more than/ very close to 40A.

Good point @rogerguzzi. The 60A single Vee on the Scimitar will very occasionally squawk pulling away immediately after a cold start with all the lights, fans, wipers, back screen, etc on. Settles down after a short while.

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

             I have done 17000 miles on the Nippon Denso one 

I sill can not see why I would need 70 amps!

I have no more electrical thigs than Triumph fitted other than EFI ! with a 25amp one!!

Which with the pump I suspect 10 amps s all thats needed

So unless I am stuck in a jam with all lights,heater,wiper,and fan on it is not needed

Roger

[Escadrille Ecosse]

2 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

Hello All

             I have done 17000 miles on the Nippon Denso one 

I sill can not see why I would need 70 amps!

I have no more electrical thigs than Triumph fitted other than EFI ! with a 25amp one!!

Which with the pump I suspect 10 amps s all thats needed

So unless I am stuck in a jam with all lights,heater,wiper,and fan on it is not needed

Roger

What you say makes perfect sense Roger. I suspect much of the problem is the old Lucas alternators being past their best, especially as their 1960s/70s best was in comparison to a dynamo. A decent alternator which actually holds it's output down to low rpm should be fine.

As you have shown

'Quod erat demonstrandum' as they used to say at Lucas.

[SpitfireBGT]

Thanks all

I'm probably going to leave it alone and add an 8Ga "helper" wire. The only thing that scares me is if I'm having problems. Low Amps could be hard to pinpoint as the cause.

On another note. How important is it to have some sort of idle air control? Allowing air past one throttle is complicated enough. 4 throttles seems really difficult. My dual DCOE's have chokes that I've never hooked up because it isn't that much of a pain to just tease it with the gas pedal until it is up to temp. will the PI be about the same?

[zetecspit]

26 minutes ago, SpitfireBGT said:

Thanks all

I'm probably going to leave it alone and add an 8Ga "helper" wire. The only thing that scares me is if I'm having problems. Low Amps could be hard to pinpoint as the cause.

On another note. How important is it to have some sort of idle air control? Allowing air past one throttle is complicated enough. 4 throttles seems really difficult. My dual DCOE's have chokes that I've never hooked up because it isn't that much of a pain to just tease it with the gas pedal until it is up to temp. will the PI be about the same?

I have bike ITBs on my car. Bit like your DCOEs it fluffs a bit when first started but is very quickly fine. No idle valve used.

[spitfire6]

9 hours ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

And yet we keep being told that grammar doesn't matter

8 AWG is about 10mm2 so that should be perfectly fine for 70A. I would recommend soldered connectors for this sort of current though. Not a fan of crimps under any circumstances on the car but especially not high load applications.

 

Hi,

 Personally, I would never ever solder a connection that carries any high current. If I cannot solder a wire with an Antex 25W iron it gets crimped. Far better connection in so many ways.

Cheers,
Iain.

[Escadrille Ecosse]

1 hour ago, spitfire6 said:

Hi,

 Personally, I would never ever solder a connection that carries any high current. If I cannot solder a wire with an Antex 25W iron it gets crimped. Far better connection in so many ways.

Cheers,
Iain.

Can't think of anything on a Triumph that needs a cable that can't be soldered with a 25w iron to a Lucar or bullet connector which is what they're built with. And in my experience they are best soldered anyway.

Other than the starter cable that is - and crimping one of those is a job for the professionals unless you happen to have access to an industrial grade crimping tool. Alas no more for me.

Insulated crimps are frankly nasty in my view. Never use them myself but found plenty of dodgy ones on cars I've acquired over the years when trying to track down faults or rectify PO bodges.

Built a few complete looms over the years and never had a problem with soldered connections - even with the oldest which is now getting on for 38 years old.

I guess you have a different experience though.