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Covid 19, novel corona virus. Split from off-grid thread


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The difficulty with symptomless transmission -whether the  result of vax or not -is that the test fro "infection" cannot distinguish between viable virus and lysed (none transmissible) virus.  PCR tests pick up the RNA even if it is in inactivated virus. Until tests distinguish the two I think the answer will not be forthcoming.

Innate defences promoted by D lyse the virus preventing transmission but that will fail to be recognosised by PCR tests. When D3 use is widespread the epidemiologists may mistakenly be led to thinkong the virus has lost transmissibilty............    My cliinician spies tell me 75% of UK doctors ( GPs)  now take D3.

Peter

 

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Someone sent me this... Feels like we are straying into MMR territory here chaps. To be honest I can only cope with so many conspiracy theories at once before I have to run back to the

Allow me to put on my sober and serious hat then. The A to Z of belief runs the gamut all the way from advocate to zealot, and after a thorough read of this topic it would be hard to argue that y

Absolutely. But the asymptomatic, untested cases are how the bloody thing gets everywhere......

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Transmission of Covid cannot be "the result of Vax" as no vaccine contains the whole virus.     Infection by s symptomless carrier who has been vaccinated seems unlikely, but past experience says it may be possible (Typhoid Mary, anyone?)

That's why I and many other people get to stuff a lateral flow swap up my nose twice a week! So far all.mine have been negative, and I've not heard of any positives

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12 minutes ago, PeterC said:

The difficulty with symptomless transmission -whether the  result of vax or not -is that the test fro "infection" cannot distinguish between viable virus and lysed (none transmissible) virus.  PCR tests pick up the RNA even if it is in inactivated virus. Until tests distinguish the two I think the answer will not be forthcoming.

Innate defences promoted by D lyse the virus preventing transmission but that will fail to be recognosised by PCR tests. When D3 use is widespread the epidemiologists may mistakenly be led to thinkong the virus has lost transmissibilty............    My cliinician spies tell me 75% of UK doctors ( GPs)  now take D3.

Peter

 

should have added that if have symptoms you are probably infectious.

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1 hour ago, PeterC said:

that if have symptoms you are probably infectious.

But also can be without symptoms. Especially kids.

SMs vaccine centre had someone come in with a 1 day old positive test, and didn’t mention it until almost at the point of vaccination in spite of being specifically asked about 4 times previously while being processed. 

That caused a bit of a kerfuffle! This person swore “the doctor said to come in”...... funny how they heard everything except the “absolutely do not” part!

Don’t think anyone caught it as a result - most staff were vaccinated by then (1 shot anyway) but gave everyone a fright. And wasted an hour while everything got wiped down.

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7 hours ago, zetecspit said:

A very reasonable one.

 

Gonna counter that one slightly, on the basis that once you have had Covid you can continue to test positive for some time afterwards. This is why flyers can get a doctor's letter to certify recent infection in lieu of a PCR test. We have a guy who has been stuck in Dubai for nearly two months because they will not let him out of quarantine until he tests negative.

Now given that once your symptoms clear up you are thrown back into society, I would seriously hope that their "positive" tests don't mean infectious.

Not that we can tell the difference between the two, but I can see the argument that a reasonable number of positive tests are likely to be non-infectious (at the point of testing).

Phil

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30 minutes ago, thebrookster said:

Gonna counter that one slightly, on the basis that once you have had Covid you can continue to test positive for some time afterwards. This is why flyers can get a doctor's letter to certify recent infection in lieu of a PCR test. We have a guy who has been stuck in Dubai for nearly two months because they will not let him out of quarantine until he tests negative.

Now given that once your symptoms clear up you are thrown back into society, I would seriously hope that their "positive" tests don't mean infectious.

Not that we can tell the difference between the two, but I can see the argument that a reasonable number of positive tests are likely to be non-infectious (at the point of testing).

Phil

My point is that we have to assume a positive test means  infectious.  And take appropriate action, like keeping the person isolated from society.

Until there is a test that can discriminate between who is and is not infectious, it is all we can do. 

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The problem is the PCR test is capable of  detectiing a few virus particles, and cannot tell if they are  viable or inactivated.   Vaccine antibodies and post-infection antibodles in saliva along with innate defences promoted by D3 all inactivate the virus.  Result: an ever increasing population who are non-infectious from a very low viral load , but stll testing PCR-positive. The extreme sensitivty of PCR can be seen as a disadvantage in determining whether quarantine or even a new lockdown is mandatory.

Flow testa are much less sensitive than PCR and should give a better  indication of infectiousness. But last time I looked prone to giving false negatives even in symptomatic pts.

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Do you have children/grandchildren who have not yet been vaccinated, and who you worry about?     My son was in that group, until a week ago, when he was included in the UK vaccination programme as it extended to 42 year olds.

There is another way for younger adults than waiting - volunteering for a new vaccine trial.    The French firm Valneva have another vaccine on the blocks, ready for a Phase 3 trial and are looking for volunteers, who will get either that or the OAZ one.  

See: https://www.ukcovid19study.com/

John

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, personally I am on the double front attack.

As documented previously, I am a dedicated convert to D3 (not least because I find sunbathing a) enjoyable and b) relaxing, a vital combination onboard). Still working on attaining the "correct" levels, but I am close.

On top of that, 9 days ago I happily received a sharp needle to the upper arm containing a dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, provided by my company. Originally we were offered either Johnson or the Moderna vaccine, however as the majority of us are planned to sign off at the start of next month the company who provided it refused to use the Moderna, they pointed out those who wanted it would not have a chance to take the second dose. So Johnson it was.

It was however a good thing we were anchored, and had two days to recover afterwards! Out of nearly 30 folk who got jabbed, I think maybe two guys had minimal side effects. The rest of us were floored! Nobody with anything life-threatening, but we all got fever, fatigue and couple of guys felt nauseous. Fortunately for the majority these effects lasted roughly 24-36 hours, only a couple of guys were still rough on the second day.

Quite something for a group of guys who are routinely pin-cushions for nearly every vaccine existing as part of the job requirements!

The "mobile" jabbing site:

IMG_20210514_121011_copy_1843x870.thumb.jpg.9cdfe1f7d64c7d3bc4cfa543b87add1f.jpg

Cheers,

Phil

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Hello Phil

                But it is a small price to pay for being safer !

I strongly believe herd immunity would not have worked! (well only at terrible cost!) 

You may not agree with this I am glad Boris Ordered lots of vaccines he had know idea if they would work but it was better than waiting? 

Roger

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5 hours ago, rogerguzzi said:

Hello Phil

                But it is a small price to pay for being safer !

I strongly believe herd immunity would not have worked! (well only at terrible cost!) 

You may not agree with this I am glad Boris Ordered lots of vaccines he had know idea if they would work but it was better than waiting? 

Roger

Fully agreed, there is no-one onboard who regrets taking it. In fact for the crew (Filipino) it was a god send, as they had no idea if and when they would ever get it at home.

However, it wasn't quite so easy to be positive about it while you are watching little green aliens run around the engine room whilst taking a round :tongue: Damn, but fever does some funny tricks to the mind!

And re Boris, yes I agree with you. This was one of the few things he did well at. I can only pray that he also sends all the spare vaccine to countries that really need it, free of charge. However I suspect that might just be a touch too much "old Tory" for him..........

Phil

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"little green aliens"?    Ah, you have opened the Doors of Perception, Little Grasshopper!

They are there all the time, here I call them 'garage gnomes',  lazy little B's!  They won't do a stroke of work, even when I leave it out for them.   I have a stripped engine block out there and it's still as filthy as it was last night!

D'ye think a bowl of milk, or fresh engine oil, would help?

John

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Little green aliens must be a common theme....   I had a gastroscopy recently, under sedation.  My only memory of it was flying above a forest looking down on "little green aliens" being chased by shiny metal robots. 

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What have J&J put in their jab, I had no after-effects whatsoever from either AZ. No LGM and thankfully no gray aliens either  ( the grays are the ones to worry about)

Peter

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So, all routes to the southwest rammed. Beaches rammed. Pubs, restaurants and shops open. General population taking their cues from our glorious leaders (:sick:) and giving up on social distancing, thinking it’s all over. Never mind that substantial numbers of the population remain unvaccinated, never mind that one of the Indian variants has established itself on our shores and is already the dominant form.......

Won’t they all be surprised by the next wave of infections, hospitalisations and deaths..... and the next lockdown. 

Pessimistic old git? Moi? I do hope so.... but........:confused:

 

I certainly don’t trust those chancers in their little Westminster bubble to do the right things.

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Had a busy day in teh garage, achieving little except ideas... (improving the exhaust manifold layout, I am losing the will to live with cutting/tacking/adjusting pipework)

 

Anyway, also got a text from teh NHS mid morning. My 2nd jab confirmed sat 12th 2pm. Hang on, previous text a while ago said 11th at 11.15am? The lady wife got a similar message. It also said we could rebook earlier if we wished.

So while I returned to the garage, Gill got on with that. Hers rebooked. But  once she had cancelled mine, the next page was gone. And then couldn't get back as I had no booking.

I phoned 119. Lady explained that there was a problem with the messages. But she checked, and said mine had rebooked. But for the time Gill had rebooked hers for (and had a confirmation). Gill checked hers via the phone. No booking.

She then had a nice chat with the unusually useful person on the other end, who rebooked both of ours for Crawley hospital, tomorrow afternoon, and apologised for the cock-ups. 

I wonder what would happen if we turned up at any other the days we had conformations for? Goodness knows. But they need to sort all this out, the poor staff at the centres will be tearing their hair out.

 

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I hope the sun is shining on the folk in Bolton, Leicester, Hounslow and all othe towns with the Indian variant. IF they sunbathe the  spread and hospitalisations will decrease. But its a faint hope, sunbathing is not part of SE Asian culture.

The seaside crowds taking the rays are doing the right  thing, and the vax will protect the oldies ( until the Indian variant spreads further)

Make hay while the sun shines, this winter is going to bad. As well as the Indian variant the mass-vaccination will lead to rapid virus evolution and new vax-resisting strains.

I have seen a paper warningof auto-immune diseases resulting from protein  sequnce identity between the Pfizer vaccine ( Wuhan spike) and our own proteins, including one that is central to Multiple Sclerosis. ( pdf on request).  Since young people are advised against AZ due to clotting risk they are being directed towards Pfizer, a highly experimental vaccine that has been given Emergency Use Authorisation with minimal testing.

The drive to obtain EUA for vaccines has included the banning of early treatments of C-19 with drugs with well-known safety profiles. This eminent US cardiologist saved his own senile father with these drugs, and estimates 80% of the 600,000 dead form C-19 could have been saved by early treatment. There are dark forces at play aimed at protecting vaccines, and his accusation of malfaisance against FDA etc will hopefully be chased up by lawyers.

 

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Zetec,

Appointments are essential, as the vaccine is in batches, must be drawn up for the required number and MUST be used within a certain time, so the number needed must be known in advance.    Where I vaccinate, great effort has been made to include people who turned up on the wrong day/wrong centre/ who had been missed.     There are almost always 'no shows'  (Boooooo!) And so left overs at the end of the day, which are used up on anyone due who can get in quickly.    

Anyone vaccinated is recorded on a national database, so they won't get called twice for the same jab.

 

Peter, 

does VitD provide NINETY % protection?       Vaccination does!

John

 

 

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