Re-wiring TR6

[Escadrille Ecosse]

2 hours ago, PaulAA said:

All was good for twenty minutes of serene pottering through town. Then, half way across a fancy suspension bridge over the river, a plume of white smoke billowed atmospherically from under the dash and, indeed, the power cable between the voltage meter and the oil pressure light was toast. Given that the circuit was not closed and the light was not on, there must be a short... somewhere.

Successful hunting

[Nick Jones]

Yeah…. What he said. Problem now disguised by the cremation. Though the point at which the cremation stops might be significant. I’d be having a good look at the bulb holder.

Good to see you are alive and kicking -and even driving your Triumph, which is one up on me!

[PaulAA]

21 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Good to see you are alive and kicking -and even driving your Triumph, which is one up on me!

Thank you. It was a short reprieve - possibly a remission for good(ish) behaviour. Now withdrawn.

[Nick Jones]

4 hours ago, PaulAA said:

Thank you. It was a short reprieve - possibly a remission for good(ish) behaviour. Now withdrawn.

Aye. The gods are capricious and sometimes unkind…..

Good luck with the gremlin extermination……..

[PaulAA]

On 1/9/2023 at 7:30 PM, Nick Jones said:

Aye. The gods are capricious and sometimes unkind…..

Good luck with the gremlin extermination……..

They are indeed capricious. I had some time to venture down to the garage yesterday evening, to fetch the dash off and trace the toasted wire.

It's always good to find the positive in these situations, some morsel of comfort to keep the spririts alive. Mine was that The Boss and I (and the TR, for that matter) were lucky not to have experienced something more dramatic and... terminal. A timely reminder not to ignore smoke billowing from under the dash for too long.

The downside is that the short (wherever it may be) fried a large part of the loom, leaving a rather arresting white sear of melted insulation along the full length of the PVC wrapping under the dash.

Bu88er. Back to Plan A. Has anybody hereabouts had experience of the Advance Auto Wire harness?

Paul

[Nick Jones]

Sorry to hear this.

No experience of that supplier*. I sort of approve of the philosophy of adding fuses and relays, but suspect it does little to ease the installation experience. Wiring loom swap is already a serious mission. The US is a fair way from Poland should issues arise.

Auto Sparks in the UK are the ones for OE pattern looms (which should at least be a straight swap). Alternatively a good used one or repair the existing.   Ugly as it looks it still might be the lowest aggro route. Depends on how many other wires have been cooked enough to need replacement.
 

*might be worth looking/asking on the Triumph Experience site?

[RedRooster]

Used a similar loom on the Sunbeam, the original only had 2 fuses. 

Easy enough to do though time consuming. 

Just make sure you tick off each wire on the diagram as you do it. 

Might be a good idea to fit a handy battery switch at the same time. 

RR

[Nick Jones]

Some options…. Which you may have already found. Not sure how different between LHD/RHD and US carb cars vs. PI

https://www.trgb.co.uk/products/wiring-loom-tr6-cr-rhd

https://shop.bastuck2.de/index.php?&cat=10000&hg=10600&ug=10603&detail=1&lang=en

(bit dear)

https://www.autosparks.co.uk/triumph-tr6-main-wiring-harness-2

 

 

[RedRooster]

This is the bloke i got mine from.

pete@petesperformancewiring.com

[RedRooster]

[PaulAA]

Many thanks, Nick & RR

One of the countless joys of Brexit is, of course, the significant additional cost of parts from Plague Island. Bastuck, Limora and Moss Paris's published prices are eye-watering (whilst working on the rear brakes, it transpired that the same brake cylinder is £23 from Rimmers and Euro 63 from Limora. Huzzah!)

Now that I've dispensed with the US market unnecessaries (and burnt some of them off, of course), cross-checking wiring diagrams suggests that I'm actually looking for a LHD European CR harness (an RKC572), but with a volt meter rather than an ammeter. The attraction of the Advance Auto Wire option was the sorted pcb combining fuses and relays, but the wiring may not end up as tidily finished as a pre-sized and wrapped loom. Especially with me at the blunt end of the pliers.

So, Autosparks currently holds pole position for the replacement, on a like-for-like basis. Not ideal, since this is an opportunity to get an Upgrade past the CFO concealed as a repair, but I may have to bow obsequiously to pragmatism.

Paul

[RedRooster]

Just wrap it in period cloth tape like I did, it's to original spec then. 

[PaulAA]

Morning chaps

Nice shiny Autosparks wiring loom arrived on Thursday, with 'daunting' written all over it. Should be fun.

All good and groovy, except that it was sent via FedEx, so the brain damage of getting it through customs and out to local delivery was multiplied many times. If I may offer a word of advice on this - do not download and install their app. They insisted on communicating with me with app, email and text, each one of which gave a different story. On the day of delivery, the app told me that they had tried to deliver the previous day, the text message told me they would deliver tomorrow, and I had six successive emails (three in English, three in Polish) giving me three different delivery days.

Needless to say, this was only relevant because human interaction was necessary - they wanted hard cash for the excise and VAT owing, before they would release the package.

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, PaulAA said:

Needless to say, this was only relevant because human interaction was necessary - they wanted hard cash for the excise and VAT owing, before they would release the package.

Yes. I have that T shirt. The VAT pissed me off particularly as I’d already paid VAT ( on used parts) in the originating country. I revenged myself on that gentleman by reclaiming half the cost as one of the parts was very far from described.

It’s a lottery though as the turbo I bought recently came from the same country (Latvia) and cost more but no extra charges were levied.  
 

Very best wishes for the “daunting” part. It’ll be fun (that’s probably a lie I’m afraid) and educational. 

Worth bearing in mind (and no doubt you are!) that the original cause is still unknown (I assume) and just possibly external to the loom, so worth keeping a wary eye open for the cause while doing the swap!

[RedRooster]

5 hours ago, PaulAA said:

Morning chaps

Nice shiny Autosparks wiring loom arrived on Thursday, with 'daunting' written all over it. Should be fun.

All good and groovy, except that it was sent via FedEx, so the brain damage of getting it through customs and out to local delivery was multiplied many times. If I may offer a word of advice on this - do not download and install their app. They insisted on communicating with me with app, email and text, each one of which gave a different story. On the day of delivery, the app told me that they had tried to deliver the previous day, the text message told me they would deliver tomorrow, and I had six successive emails (three in English, three in Polish) giving me three different delivery days.

Needless to say, this was only relevant because human interaction was necessary - they wanted hard cash for the excise and VAT owing, before they would release the package.

 Not just FedEx, we get things delivered randomly with other couriers. 

I've stopped buying from the sunny uplands Isle as fed up getting customs charges on top, which just seem a random amount. 

 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

The 'app thing'. I avoid it. We're not friends and I don't feel the need for anymore than a purely transactional relationship thank you.

[PaulAA]

21 hours ago, RedRooster said:

I've stopped buying from the sunny uplands Isle as fed up getting customs charges on top, which just seem a random amount. 

 

Exactly. I paid a very arbitrary 27.2% (VAT here is 23%), with no explanation of what made up the difference. I suspect that FedEx apply an arbitrary handling charge, but there has been no response to my request for an invoice yet. Yeah, good luck with that one...

[spitfire6]

Hi,

In the early nineties, I shorted out the brake warning light so that my oil pressure light was lovely & bright when the ignition was on.
One morning with the ignition switch on & pushing the brake pedal, caused the cabin to fill with smoke. 

Should have done better.

Cheers,

Iain.

[PaulAA]

Afternoon chaps.

I trust you're all be busy polishing the bunting and practicing Royal Flan baking...

If I may distract you momentarily, I am wrapped up in my shiny new loom and... a little confused. The outgoing US-market loom has an ignition relay, but the RKC572 loom that I am attempting to insert instead, roughly corresponding to the early LHD CP, appears not to. Is it plausible that a car of this era would not have had an ignition relay?

Oh, and at the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious... cor blimey - this ain't easy.

[Nick Jones]

37 minutes ago, PaulAA said:

Oh, and at the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious... cor blimey - this ain't easy.

Indeed…. Low/no fun job.*

38 minutes ago, PaulAA said:

Is it plausible that a car of this era would not have had an ignition relay?

The surprise to me is that the car ever had an ignition relay - not at all common on cars that age. Does it look original or could it be a PO modification? (Quite a good idea).
 

 

*Once had to a loom swap on at late 70s Fiat X19 which had had a bit of an under-dash barbecue. Sourced a loom from same model and year. Snipped the old loom out leaving tails showing the wire colours but when I went to fit the new (to me) replacement the colours were mostly different, and the Haynes wiring diagram was different again. That took some time and much cussing to unscramble….

[DeTRacted]

According to the Advance Autowire circuit schematics there was never an ignition relay on the TR6 but there were a couple of odd relays for later models, either for the starter or for bulb-test (US models I think). 

http://www.advanceautowire.com/tr2506.pdf

Edited April 29, 2023 by DeTRacted

[PaulAA]

9 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

The surprise to me is that the car ever had an ignition relay - not at all common on cars that age. Does it look original or could it be a PO modification? (Quite a good idea).

This is a relief... a minor reduction in the odds of buring something else when I first turn the key...

Yes, It's original and was a standard fot for late CF (US) cars

 

9 hours ago, DeTRacted said:

According to the Advance Autowire circuit schematics there was never an ignition relay on the TR6 but there were a couple of odd relays for later models, either for the starter or for bulb-test (US models I think). 

http://www.advanceautowire.com/tr2506.pdf

By 'ignition relay', I meant, of course, ''starter relay' - immediately to the right/below the ignition module on the Advance Auto Wire diagram from '74 model year onwards. I posted after the recuperatory beer last night...

Here's mine pre-chop, sitting over the horn relay:

[PaulAA]

2 minutes ago, PaulAA said:

By 'ignition relay', I meant, of course, ''starter relay'

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, PaulAA said:

By 'ignition relay', I meant, of course, ''starter relay' - immediately to the right/below the ignition module on the Advance Auto Wire diagram from '74 model year onwards. I posted after the recuperatory beer last night...

Ah…. Looks like it’s mainly intended to stop the starter working if you don’t have your seatbelt fastened? Irritating feature, frequently bypassed one suspects….

Take your patience pills and crack on 

[PaulAA]

So, bit of progress. The loom is in and sort of looks like the one that came out, pre-barbeque. It was a bugger, but rude words at high volume helped.

I am, however, challenged by one aspect, which is beyond my small non-electrical brain. The old loom had two connections to the coil, one being the ballasted wire and the other coming from the starter relay. At the starter end of things, there was only an ignition connection and the direct battery cable. In the new loom, there is a signle cable from the coil, which appears to require connection to the starter. Only there's no visible connection point on the Powerlite hi-torque starter.

I'm afraid there isn't much smace to swing a camera and a torch down by the manifold...

Any thoughts or suggestions would be deeply appreciated...