The great "can't fix that" racket

[JohnD]

Walkies?  It tried to eat the camera!

LOL!

John

Edited October 10, 2022 by JohnD

[JohnD]

Can't fix that?   WON'T fix that!

I had an old battery radio: battery because it lived in the bathroom.    I dropped and broke it, and it was so old, I didn't try to mend it, but went out to buy a new one.    A Goodmans, from my local Curry electrical supermarket.  It was the same size as the old one, cheap (a mistake?) and was switchable from analogue to DAB.   The last was, I thought, important as we have a Roberts DAB-only radio that was long ago destined for the bathroom, but drained its batteries daily!  Instead, we used it in the kitchen where it could be plugged into the mains. 

A month later, the new radio fails.  A couple of minutes after being turned on, it starts to go on and off every few seconds.    I took it back to Curry's but I must have paid cash for it, as it's not on my credit card print out, and who keeps a receipt for a small purchase for month?    Worse, Curry's no longer stock Goodmans' products.   They refused to repair or replace the radio.

OK, I have the literature that came with it, including a 'guarantee' form.  I'll contact Goodmans.     And they appear to no longer exist!   Google can't reach the website referred to on the 'guarantee', www.goodmans.co.uk, or find anything on "Goodmans" except on Amazon or other dealers' sites.

I am forced to consider repair - any ideas where to start?

John 

[DeTRacted]

Goodmans, as was, are defunct - the name has been sold on to B&M

https://www.bmstores.co.uk/brands/goodmans

Older stuff has some sort of support but It's doubtful they can do repairs - they only seem to provide legacy documentation:

https://goodmans.factoryoutlet.co.uk/support/sound-supportpage/digital-radio.html.

I guess it depends whether Curry's was selling end-of-line kit from the original outfit or the newer stuff from B&M.

Anyway, the vendor is definitely liable for goods sold, under the Consumer Rights Act. (quote: You have six years to take a claim to court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; in Scotland you have five years.) I wonder what trading standards would say about Curry's stance? 

The nature of modern cheap kit being what it is, I think you will be lucky to find any third party willing (or able) to repair it.  The cost would probably far outweigh the purchase price. 

 

[JohnD]

Yes, Rob, it's the vendor that has the duty to sell goods in a fit state to use.    But in this case, I can't prove that I bought the damn thing there, and they point out, rightly, that they don't stock Goodman's items.    So, bog off, John, not our problem!

But I've just looked for another one, on-line, and happened on a site that stated their battery life.  They are all in the order of eight to ten HOURS!!   That's about a week in the bathroom - could it be that my Goodmans is suffering from run-down batteries??  I'll try a new set.

Seems to be a feature of DAB radios.  The Goodmans was switchable analogue to DAB, and I hoped that using it on analogue would prolong battery life - the old one lasted for months!    In this respect, DAB is very much retrograde, not progress!

John

PS  The 'solar powered' calculator I've had on my desk for possibly forty years has just gone Fut!   Not literally, but the display shows random LCD bars instead of numbers!    Bugger!

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by JohnD

[DeTRacted]

Yes the problem is that old FM radios were just a simple analogue tuner and amplifier that draws a minimum of current.  Anything DAB requires a digital processor and those take much more, so the batteries don't last long at all. You will probably find that even though yours is switched to FM the processor is still working, if only to drive the tuning display. 

One major gripe I have with most modern kit is that non of it has a real on/off switch that opens the battery connection.  It just goes into standby mode and still takes current, so when you come to use it again the battery is usually knackered.  Where possible I try either to fit a proper switch, if there is room in the case, or else resort to removing the battery if it isn't going to be used for. while. Grrrrr. 

[RogerH]

Hi John/Rob,

about 15 years ago a friend of mine was moving house and dumping his excess belongings.

He gave me a Hacker Harrier FM portable radio.  It was in concourse condition and the sound was very very good.

I didn't have an immediate need for it so it sat in my cupboard for quite some time.

In 2018 I decided to take it on a car journey and have a listen in the countryside.

It turned on with a click - but no music, damn.

I buy all my electrical stuff from a local shop - not the big boys. I asked the young lad if he could get it sorted.

He looked bemused. He called out the back for dad.  His dad, Bernard, is a little alder than me.

I told him what happened. He said throw it away it would cost too much to repair.

I offered him a budget of £200 to get it fixed.  He said it could take 2 or 3 weeks.

I left the shop and went home. 20 minutes later I get a phone call - all sorted.

I go back and ask what was the problem.  On one of the output OC81 trannies the internals were shorting to the metal case which was grounded on the heatsink.  All he did was unclip it from the  heatsink - bingo.

He then went on to tell me  that in the 60's he worked for GEC (I think) where he did the repairs on all the returns.

His tales would fill a book.

He charged me £20 - bargain.

I see that a 50 year old NOS OC81 is £5 - bloody hell.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mossmonaco]

17 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi John/Rob,

about 15 years ago a friend of mine was moving house and dumping his excess belongings.

He gave me a Hacker Harrier FM portable radio.  It was in concourse condition and the sound was very very good.

I didn't have an immediate need for it so it sat in my cupboard for quite some time.

In 2018 I decided to take it on a car journey and have a listen in the countryside.

It turned on with a click - but no music, damn.

I buy all my electrical stuff from a local shop - not the big boys. I asked the young lad if he could get it sorted.

He looked bemused. He called out the back for dad.  His dad, Bernard, is a little alder than me.

I told him what happened. He said throw it away it would cost too much to repair.

I offered him a budget of £200 to get it fixed.  He said it could take 2 or 3 weeks.

I left the shop and went home. 20 minutes later I get a phone call - all sorted.

I go back and ask what was the problem.  On one of the output OC81 trannies the internals were shorting to the metal case which was grounded on the heatsink.  All he did was unclip it from the  heatsink - bingo.

He then went on to tell me  that in the 60's he worked for GEC (I think) where he did the repairs on all the returns.

His tales would fill a book.

He charged me £20 - bargain.

I see that a 50 year old NOS OC81 is £5 - bloody hell.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

shurely shome mishtake.......OC71/red spots had a painted glass case and glass is not noted for it's conductivity. 'Back in the day' we would scrape the paint off and use them as cheap photo-transistors- same principal as phone cameras (though at £5/pixel perhaps not an economic repair stratagy). The Harrier used AF117 yellow spot transistors (which were in a metal can)

[RogerH]

Hello M

on the Hacker Harrier the electronics was fairly standard for the day.

OC71 pre-amp with OC81 in metal cans for  the output.

The AF117 in the tuner section had its own shorting problems.

LED's and photo transistors were invented on day 1 of semiconductors - they just didn't know it.

Roger

[DeTRacted]

4 hours ago, mossmonaco said:

OC71/red spots had a painted glass case and glass is not noted for it's conductivity. 'Back in the day' we would scrape the paint off and use them as cheap photo-transistors

The early filling was a translucent silicone grease but later that was changed to an opaque thick white 'gunge', so that trick didn't work any more. An OCP71 was at least twice the price of an OC71 so maybe Mullards changed it deliberately to stop you doing it. 

However, with care you could break off the glass, wash the white gunge off with benzine and still get a cheap phototransistor......

[JohnD]

Sideways U's Dept of Radio Engineering has taken the opportunity for a seminar, I see!  Good for them!

But stap me vittels, it WAS the shagged out batteries that were making the radio play up!     I charged up some rechargeables and it works perfectly.    Damme if I'll buy a set of four AAs once a month, surely that will screw up the environment, so I'll go on with the rechargeables.  How long will they last, cycling them once a month (about)?

Jphn 

[Nick Jones]

about 500 cycles usually isn't it?  Will keep you going for a while.

[mpbarrett]

OC71 that brings back memories...
Had problems in the last few years with Duracell AA batteries developing a high internal resistance as they age. This means as soon as any current is drawn from them the voltage drops. 
We have Honeywell smart radiator values power by 2 AA batterers, they work fine until you try to change the temperature set point. The valve then runs a motor to adjust the valve as this draws more current the battery voltage drops and the smart valve reboots!
I  now  change all the batteries once a year....

mike

[JohnD]

Mike, please see you PMs - can I use your TC-08 while not connected to the lap top?

John

[mpbarrett]

35 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Mike, please see you PMs - can I use your TC-08 while not connected to the lap top?

John

Have sent PM. No you have to interface it to a PC/Portable to log data. 
Would be interesting to connect it to a Raspberry Pie + battery to make a stand-alone logger!

mike

[JohnD]

Thanks for PM reply!

But as this is becoming a Sideways Uni. tutorial: Battery?  Could it be powered from a USB socket in the boot?  Or would it loose the data if that power went down when ignition goes off?

John

[RogerH]

On 10/27/2022 at 3:58 PM, JohnD said:

Sideways U's Dept of Radio Engineering has taken the opportunity for a seminar, I see!  Good for them!

But stap me vittels, it WAS the shagged out batteries that were making the radio play up!     I charged up some rechargeables and it works perfectly.    Damme if I'll buy a set of four AAs once a month, surely that will screw up the environment, so I'll go on with the rechargeables.  How long will they last, cycling them once a month (about)?

Jphn 

Hi John,

this may not apply to your issue but you can't always swap from standard Duracell to rechargeable

The standard Duracell AA gives 1.5V  the rechargeable gives 1.2V   so if the appliance needs just that bit more then the rechargeables  may not do it for along.

 

Roger

[JohnD]

Can always recharge 'em!  Was it 500 times?  A batheroom radio only gets used a few minutes a day.  Solution!

[Nick Jones]

Used to be possible to get alkaline rechargeables that had the benefits of low self-discharge and 1.5v output.  Relatively slow to charge and relatively few cycles before significant loss of performance though.  Don't seem to be a thing any more.

[JohnD]

I suppose that the last, few cycles, would make them difficult to sell.

[spitfire6]

Hi,

 the AA-sized cell exists in many chemistries & voltages.

The primary/non-rechargeable cells are 1.5 volts & unable to produce large amps due to high internal resistance. Cheap. Perfect for things like clocks. They will leak if left discharged for a while…

Alkaline primary cells are pretty good but are thrown away.

Rechargeable cells are normally 1.2 volts & are generally capable of high current and greater energy than primary Zn C cells & sometimes Alkaline. They have a higher self-discharge than most primary cells though.

Panasonic Eneloop Pro AA is highly recommended for low self-discharge.

1.5 Volt li-ion rechargeable cells exist but are far from ideal for most applications.

A lot of junk out there.
I bought loads of 7Day shop cells a decade ago internal resistance makes most of them now suitable for low-drain apps only.

Cheers,
Iain.

 

[JohnD]

Here's another.     I have a gas boiler in the basement with a balanced flue that comes out at ground level.    And, with the current energy crisis, I had checked the timer on the boiler and set it to come on once a day, first thing in the morning.  I was concerned to see the flue pushing out vapour around midday, so when the technician came today for the annual inspection, I asked him about it.

This guy loves to teach!   And I don't mean that in sarcasm - he is most knowledgeable, skilful, good at explanation, and is glad to investigate and explain, so I hoped he would sort it and explain what had happened.  And he did.     The timer on the boiler has four settings, On, Timed, Once and Off.    On and Off mean on all the time or not working at all, and Timed means that it comes on at the times you set - fair enough.    But the timer is built to allow more than one period of heating and not just two, morning and evening, as I thought, but three periods!   And "Once" means that the heating starts with the first period and continues until the end of the last!   So, by selecting "Once" for I was not warming the water for a shower etc. I was turning it on all bloody day!

There may have been a handbook that explained this, but it is long lost and brief instructions on the timer don't mention the three periods at all!   So I am most grateful to the technician.   I am further grateful to him for showing me that the little red light on the control box between the timer and the boiler was not, as I thought, merely an 'On' light, but indicated a fault!   Nothing on the box to say that!   The fault was that the batteries had run out in the wireless thermostat, so that that was doing bugger all to control my heating either!   They are AAs, but I won't be fitting rechargables!

Can't fix?   Can't inform, unless you have a technician who should be on the Faculty of this University!

John

 

[PeteStupps]

12 hours ago, JohnD said:

So, by selecting "Once" for I was not warming the water for a shower etc. I was turning it on all bloody day!

 

Ouch! That could have been a very expensive misunderstanding. How long was it operating like that, and did you notice the house being hot?!

[JohnD]

It was the hot water only, and I have a double insulated tank for that, so not a lot of harm, I hope. Time and bills will tell, but I'll have to turn on the central heating soon, so that will mask any advantage from correcting my ignorance.

[MilesA]

I have the same three (why?) periods on my 30 year old timer but at least it is obvious on the screen. I have to fool the timer by putting in the same finishing time for the 5 start / stop times after the initial 'switch on' time. 

Miles

[thebrookster]

This is one off several reasons why I "upgraded" to the Honeywell Evohome system. I can have the heating come on pretty much as many times during the day as I like, program it all with an app, and even better for me I can "zone" every single room, each with it's own schedule.

The difference to my heating bill means it has more than paid for itself in the last 6 years of running it. Not a cheap outlay mind you, although I believe there are cheaper alternatives out there now.