Aldon Amethyst Ignition

[CHRIS211083]

Well, anyone seen this??? So its mappable ignition for your Dissy. You lock the advance plate, you attach the vaccum advance to the box and it changes the ignition advance just like Megajolt. Except its cheaper, even if you have to buy a rebuild dizzy if your old one is buggered. Anyone tried one?? Here is a link.....

 

http://www.simonbbc.com/ignition-control/aldon-amethyst-fully-mappable-electronic-ignition-system-programmable-ignition

 

£200 for mappable ignition, also it can use TPS instead of Map if you wish.

 

Chris.

[Nick Jones]

Yep, been around a couple of years now.  Mike Banks (Sparky Spit) on the CT Forum has one and seems to like it.

 

Some care needed locking the distributor so that the rotor arm points right at the right HT post to avoid cross-firing and a little less accurate than coil pack system, but looks like good value and certainly a simpler install than coil pack systems.

 

Nick

[Triumph-V8]

Just from the first look it has two mappings for overlay,

the vaccuum as a 2D and the rpm as a 2D.

That does not give a real 3D mapping we like.

123 has the same problem but solved it in parts with a

vaccuum active above and a rpm limit to key that in.

 

Many of us do not have a vaccuum pickup from the carb and

use WEBER or EFI or PI.

They all do not need vaccuum advance at idle but cant get rid of it

with this little box. Or is there a switch I did not see?

 

Megajolt and MegaSquirt with the 3D allows to reduce vac advance

in any area where not needed like idle with any vac pickup.

 

So this is not only more expensive than a MS1 but also can do a lot less.

 

I would prefer to have a full 3D mapping and full control of dwell time.

Also more advance at cold and less at hot engine is a sweet thing.

[CHRIS211083]

Its cheaper than MS1 as its assembled. Also you can opt for TPS instead of MAP. Very easy install and better than stock but limited.

[Triumph-V8]

I do not see that TPS solves the problem that we do not need advance

at idle/closed throttle. And TPS requires a TPS sensor what is the most

difficult sensor to fix in that EFI thing as long as you do not employ a

new single throttle body from a modern car.

 

The MS1 is about 170 USD +shipping and is soldered at one weekend

 

But maybe I see this from a MS user side.... not that objectively

I must admit....  After some 123tune fitment I see the limits and I

hate to see limits and can not set things I would like to adjust.

 

Agree, its better than nothing and a proper rpm advance is

a very good thing one should have....

[CHRIS211083]

I'm not promoting it but you shouldn't bash something because it doesn't do what you (an advanced efi guy) decides to be mandatory. Its still cheaper than a built MS1 and will work very well. Infact its such a good little easy to use and install package and I think the designers should be praised for developing it. After all most classic car enthusiasts wont spend the cash that efi costs but they would spend this and have it mapped at Aldon and never have to touch it again. One of the Guy's on CT forum uses one and loves it. Horses for courses. Its not perfect but its much closer than an old dissy can manage.

 

Chris.

[spitfire6]

Hi,

 an advantage over coil-pack would be that 100% of the plugs, would be firing at their best and the plugs would last longer.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

Edited October 3, 2016 by spitfire6

[Triumph-V8]

Hi Chris,

"bash" is a harsh word. All I wanted is to tell people

who spent a lot of mooney that they get something

that might be better than stock, but not perfect and

inform them what they get and what they do not get.

 

Unfortunately the limits like adjustable damping or 3D mapping

missing like in the 123tune come into the focus later when

people learned how to use it.

 

You are right, if somebody does not want to dive deeper

into the electronics and proper setting of ignition individually

for the own engine a preset and easy to fit system is a good solution.

But in that case you are in the focus of the dizzy doctor who can

set a dizzy if you tell him for what engine & cam.

 

I followed a lot of discussions about the 123ignition with a smile

where people compared advance curves and found none of the

offered 16 curves suitable because the difference of 3 degrees.

 

If you can not employ a proper part throttle advance we talk about up

to 15 degrees that have to be pushed in the the proper corners of the

3-D mapping and the 2 x 2D approach can not do that.

[mikeyb]

I'm surprised this is the only thread that turned up when I searched on here. Maybe I need to practice or refine my searching, lol!

 

I am thinking about what upgrades I can do on the Stag prior to the 10CR.  It is currently running Lumenition but driving it to work and back recently has revealed a minor issue that it has had for a while to be worsening.  This would appear to be an intermittent fault in the electrics somewhere that very occasionally and momentarily cuts the ignition circuit.

I'm slowly and methodically working my way through replacing the ignition system components as a result but did have a slight unease in that the fault could be in the Lumention itself.  This is not necessarily a disaster as I carry a spare Lumenition converted distributor and spare Lumenition module, but I would rather find the fault now so as not to end up fault finding at a less conventient moment.

So I started to look more seriously at the Stealth Black Box and Aldon Amethyst options.  The Amethyst would seem to be the more versitile option with it's 3D mapping compared to the 2D of the Stealth, and is twice the price.  However the bit that surprised and disappointed me was that both devices did not provide the complete upgrade solution as they work independantly to the components within the distributor.  So if I fitted either to the Stag, then the Lumenition would remain and I would effectively end up with two modules!

So I'm none the wiser

I guess the only way out of this is use a programmable 1,2,3?  I have no time to go down a more complex MS route.

Any thoughts?

[Nick Jones]

Pretty good summary I think Mike.  It's not been discussed that much on here. This may well be the only thread with significant content rather than a brief mention.

 

I think these things are a bit of a niche market due to the retention of the distributor.  I think you can also use the Aldon Amethyst box using the Aldon Ignitor (same as Pertronix) as the pick-up sensor which would mean you could take all of the Lumenition stuff off and would have only the ignitor in the distributor and the Amethyst box outside it.

 

In your position, with the need for a fix before the 10CR, I'd be looking at either the Amethyst/ignitor route or at the 123 route, though as far as I can see 123 don't list a distributor for a TV8 (though they do for an RV8).  

 

Might be better to have a good sort through of the existing set-up to try and find the intermittent fault (dodgy connection, ignition switch itself), perhaps swap to your spare distributor to see if that cures it and save the upgrade for later so you can go to a proper distributorless system such as Megajolt Lite, Megasquirt (using ignition only) or the relative newcomer, NODIZ.  All of these need the addition of a 36-1 trigger wheel and sensor and I think ultimately give the best result.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Nick

[mikeyb]

Hi Nick, yes I am going to concentrate on nailing the root of the issue first.  Cap and rotor arm on order.  Coil will be next then a close look at the circuitry. I suspect the lumention itself is ok, in my experience they either work or they dont.  It could be just a 12v supply interruption.  I do have a hint of a doubt to about the connector plug between optical sensor and  Lumention box, I'm tempted to remake with a modern connector.  However will have to modify the spare too in that case to retain plug and play capability!

[mikeyb]

Who runs the show on here now? I've ended up with two usernames dating back to when I couldn't log on and needed some advice on the TR6's timing.  Could do with sorting it out!

[Nick Jones]

I have some "powers" but a bit vague on what to do with them so might make matter worse.  Craig (GT6Mk3) is your man and will probably be along shortly.  Your original log-in might predate the forum migration.  Do you want to merge the two IDs?  

 

Nick

[Triumph-V8]

Let me first say that MegaSquirt can also work with the points similar to the Aldon.

If that solution is too complicated or somebody does not want to solder

the Megajolt is a good solution.

 

I think one real disadvantage both of 123tune and Aldon is not seen:

The are both not a real 3D mapping.

That means you cant give it at 3000rpm and a vacuum "x" and lets say 5000 rpm

and the same vacuum amount "x" a different vacuum advance. If you key in 15 degrees

you have that at any rev. A full 3D mapping can give any advance at any working point of the engine.

 

123tune has the great disadvantage that damping of the vacuum pulses can not

be set and is very much damped. That giveas the bad behaviour that when opening

up the engine knocks because part throttle advance is reduced too slowly. It is

necessary that damping can be set enough to smooth the signal but not more.

 

I would expext critical dwell times on a V8 at higher revs and 123tune can not

set that and I think Aldon not, too.. This will reduce the power to the spark plug

what will from a point on reduce engine power.

 

As I said above all these details will either not be noticed and reduce the engines performance

or will be noticed and can not be repaired,

[GT6MK3]

Who runs the show on here now? I've ended up with two usernames dating back to when I couldn't log on and needed some advice on the TR6's timing. Could do with sorting it out!

What was the other ID

[mikeyb]

"not a guest"

[mikeyb]

I would like to eventiually go down the route of EFI, maybe megasquirt or possibly Emerald.  However in the more short term I was hoping to dial in a bit of performance and reliabilty improvement before the 10CR!

[GT6MK3]

"not a guest"

I've merged that into Mikeyb.

[anthonyfca]

Very old Aldon Amethyst thread here, but then my car is very old too not to mention this owner apparently  - 1700cc 711M Block BDR on twin Dellorto DHLA 45s (38mm choke/180 jets). My first post I think so "hello". I have been lurking for ages in the Dellorto thread (I hope it's in here). Now I am exploring what to do about my Lucas 43D (no vacuum advance) 103 TC Aldon BDR dizzy's mechanical advance curve. We (Paul at Aldon) and me have looked at my photos of my advance mechanism and w/he think it has never been tweaked after delivery. The original 1987 springs would have been 43lb primary and 300lb secondary with 9 degrees (18 crank) advance. 

Now then, the dizzy is very difficult to work on being underneath the carbs, though having had the carbs off many times this year I am getting quicker at it. I have a new Pertronix Ignitor II (just replaced the version 1) in play with their preferred coil. All this is really about, given I prefer to keep the engine original is if the Amethyst is the simplest way to get control over the mechanical advance curve? Aldon tell me they can give me springs to reproduce any curve I create with it should I find one i want to keep in permanent (Alpine road only, no track) use.

The list if things that affect advance is endless, but the ones around here in more frequent play are temperature, fuel quality, altitude (3 to 6,000 feet or sea level) that immediately spring to mind. The carbs are basically jetted for WOT and not much else. I suspect the builder (r.i.p. so we can't ask)  liked hill climbs as he lived very near a famous one. I have just rebuilt the carbs and much else besides and experienced a hint of what the car would have been like 40 years ago, a veritable rocket ship. 

I have explored the more expensive and complicated things like Mega various and so on, but all I really want is control over the advance curve without having to change out springs or weld or cut bits in to or out of the mechanism; and of course it's all going to be worn in any case. 

Sorry, long ramble.. 

Amethyst? 

All the best to anyone still here - Anthony

[Nick Jones]

What is the actual car? Something Lotus 7 - ish?

Amythyst looks like a fairly good solution for you. The only reservation that I have is that with twin sidedraughts and (presumably) a biggish cam, you might not have enough vacuum available to build a meaningful 3D map and there doesn’t seem to be a TPS option. 
 

Personally I very much like having full 3D as it helps part throttle behaviour, driveability and fuel economy considerably, but given you’re on 2D at the moment even some 3D element could be considered a win…..