Adjusting camber

[lordleonusa]

Some people on this forum have fitted tubular front upper wishbones to their small triumphs that have a Camber Adjustment capability.

 

I am interested in exactly how those people have accurately measured and adjusted their front camber without resorting to expensive tools.

 

I would be most grateful to learn of any tips and advice that they can offer me to do the same.

 

I have had thoughts about attaching lengths of angle iron or similar, bolted onto the wheel/tyre and using such a tool as a cheap digital camber gauge, making the required adjustments.

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-angle-gauge-95998.html

 

Any thoughts?

 

Regards

 

Léon

 

[GT6 Nick]

One way I've been experimenting with (and it even plays music!). I haven't figured out how to get it to measure castor to toe-in yet, but I'm sure someone's writing an app for it.

[lordleonusa]

Whilst I am grateful for the suggestion, I don't have an iphone, so

 

Here's the 'much cheaper' harbor freight version that I mentioned above.

 

L

[oviwan]

hi,

ordered two of the same gauges for steel construction and want to use them on the car as well. but i need to fabricate some clamps to attach them to the aluminium-wheels.

 

castor measurement should be easy, turn the wheel from zero around ~20° to the left, note the camber angle, turn it the same amount to the other side, note the camber again. difference of both values is the castor angle.

 

has anyone ideas for a clamp design which can be used for camber/castor and toe?

 

harry

[JohnD]

Louis,

 

here's a pic of my camber gauge:

 

Some details that may not be clear:

1/ File a tiny nick at the top of the vertical line to take the plumb string.  Hang the plumb from that and note the position of the string on the scale.

2/ You may need to cut a hole in the middle of the wheel stud holes for the hub, if you don't have my giant spacers!

3/ To use as illustrated (I was testing the camber change from bump to droop, so had taken the spring out), support the car on axle stands under the front suspension, not the chassis, so the car is at ride height.

4/ the graduations are in millimeters.    You then need to convert that into an angle, by trigonometry.  Millimeters/D=Tan alpha, where the camber angle is alpha.

 

It can be used by just holding it against the wheel.  Better would be to add a couple or three small bolts so that it was against the wheel itself and not the tyre.

John

[JohnD]

And my toe-in guage:

 

I bought one of those laser-levels, luckily cheap at a store clear out.

Sat on an axle stand, positioned so the laser line is parallel to the car's midline.

Takes a bit of measurement and fiddling, but it's easier than strings!

Measure the distance from the rim to the laser line, front of wheel and back.

See pics.

 

Then work out the toe in (front minus backl, or vice versa).

In fact the Haynes manual gives it as a distance, not an angle - 0-0.8mm.

  (0.8-2.4mm for late (swing spring?)GT6s).

 

John

[JohnD]

ntx

[oviwan]

Sat on an axle stand, positioned so the laser line is parallel to the car's midline.

 

car's midline means center of rear-wheelhub to center of front-wheelhub?

 

*edit* ok, got it.... (sleep)

[lordleonusa]

Joh,

 

This may be a stupid question, but I thought that tho measure and adjust the camber correctly, the wheel had to be on, and in it's normal, i.e. 'settled' position?

 

You first photo implies otherwise?

 

Leon  

[spitNL]

Not if you use the jack to raise it to it's normal position.

(might have to take the shock and spring off)

 

F.

[JohnD]

Fred has it, Leon.

As I said, "support the car on axle stands under the front suspension, not the chassis, so the car is at ride height"

A real purist would support the rear suspension ditto.

 

Almost all suspensions, and certainly Triumph's, change camber from bump to droop. As the chart below shows, it is linear, but enormous on the front.

 

John

[GT6 Mike]

Leon

 

I use one of those gauges, I cut a length of 20mm box section to match my wheel diameter then hold it in place with a couple of elasticated straps

[spitNL]

Almost all suspensions, and certainly Triumph's, change camber from bump to droop. As the chart below shows, it is linear, but enormous on the front.

Maybe that's to compensate for the floppy chassis?

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Use digital angle measure here....

[oviwan]

got mine today. a bit different to the ones shown above....you need a reference face for calibration. thats funny cause i bought them to get a reference face. anyway, check if they have calibration mode (push calib., turn around at same spot 180° and push calib. again) i have to do this with a feeler gauge now, leveling until they show the same value +/- and then calibration. takes two minutes for +/- 0.1° which is ok for me.

[JohnD]

Just to show that my simple, folded metal camber guage can be used without dismantling the suspension, here is used in 'quick' mode.  I clamped it to the wheel by a ratchet clamp to take the picture, but you can take a quick reading of the camber from the scale at the bottom just holding it and the plumb bob string in your hand.

If Dimension D (see above) is 370mm (just over 14.5"), which just fits the wheel nicely, then each 1/4" (6.35mm) on the scale is one degree of camber.

[SpitmkIIICPH]

I see CC are now selling these @160 squid a side ;D

 

anyone on the forum still building/selling them?

 

need to change top balljoints - so am thinking of going adjustable..

[Nick B.]

I see CC are now selling these @160 squid a side ;D

 

anyone on the forum still building/selling them?

 

need to change top balljoints - so am thinking of going adjustable..

 

You will not get those adjustable top wishbones past the danish MOT. I would LOVE to have a pair like that if it was not for MOT. :-/

 

Cheers

Nick

 

 

[spitNL]

Is there a cut-off date for the vehicle type-approval in Denmark?

 

This used to be 1-1-1973 over here in The Netherlands,

practically that means that if you own a Spitfire produced before this date you could pretty much do anything you want with it.

Maybe something similar in Denmark?

 

Cheers,

 

Frederick

[James]

Just swap them out for the MOT?

[Nick B.]

Oh yes - could just swap them out for MOT. However - I do not know how this would affect insuraqnce in the instance of an accident. If I happen to kill a pedestrian (no particular in mind, though a few ought to worry  ;D) I fear that the insurance company will raise a clain against me since I drive an illegal modified car.

 

And Frederick: No cut off date. All cars have to follow the rules. Though - if a car is more than 35 years old, it will only have to be MOTed every 8. year.

 

Cheers

Nick

[spitNL]

So what rules does a car have to follow if it's from 1912?

For example: No indicators, mechanical brakes only on the rear axle, no speedometer.

 

[Nick Jones]

Is your MoT inspector expert enough to know that your wishbones are not standard?  My MoT inspector thinks all Vitesses have CV joints  

 

(he's suspicious of the EFI though)

 

Nick

[SpitmkIIICPH]

I don´t think any Danish tester woukd notice?? Get them covered in crud and then go for it ;D I want some of those!!

[triumphlux]

That's the trouble with the Mot, it depends on the tester .... and you never know what is going to happen  

 

In Luxemburg a prewar car doesn't need an Mot .... one day I will build a highly modified prewar car  

Like a Riley engine in an Austin Seven chassis  ;D