Nicks Vitesse

[Nick Jones]

Well, it survived the 10CR. 2,435 miles between Wednesday afternoon and Monday evening. No real problems, just a scare and an irritation.

 

It got the usual caning as well though perhaps not as severe as the 2011 event - not so many Alpine passes!

 

Nothing much to report until the Saturday morning. In the run into the mountains we had been dicing with a local in a white van. He clearly knew the road real well and was determined that we were not going to pass him. We didn't either. We know he was trying pretty hard as he was waving rear wheels in the air on the sharper bends (in a Renault Traffic FFS!). If he was the bakers delivery boy then the croissants may have been a little battered!

 

We then stopped for breakfast (could have been a late dinner though - it was pizza) and then filled up in a local bush filling station. More E10 muck (though we'd already gone through a couple of tankfuls without issue apart from it doesn't last long). Right after that the clutch release bearing started howling again having been completely silent to that point. It carried on doing that intermittently for the rest of the trip and still is. That was the irritation.

 

The scare was that as soon as we got on the pass proper it started making really nasty knocking noises whenever I went over 2500 rpm with any load. Not a pinking noise - sounded just like 2 or 3 big ends well on the way out. Odd. Oil pressure still pretty good, water temp normal range, air temp fairly cool. Limped it up to 2,802m in 2nd and 3rd gear staying under 2500 rpm with serious concerns I was going to be needing Europe's highest recovery!

 

Having reached the top of the pass it was more or less downhill all the way to Nice. We stopped near the top at a control and checked the oil - which was a bit down, but still well above minimum. Topped it up. Drove down towards Nice and it seemed fine again - no more noise. We decided it must have been detonation from really shite fuel and resolved to top up with 98 octane (which it is not normally allowed!) to pacify it. From Nice we were meant to go to Monaco. However, it was bloody hot in Nice and the traffic was appalling so we decided to test the car properly it was essential to go over the Col de Turini....... And so we did - and what a marvellous bit of road that is - and the car cheered up and romped up it just fine with no nasty noises (apart from the bloody release bearing!).

 

San Bernadino pass was the only other of note this time. That was good fun too - we could have passed the TR6 but thought it would have been a bit rude. We assumed he wasn't trying all that hard...... though from comment made at the top, perhaps he was.... mind you he was trying alot harder than I would have been with my wife in the car!

 

Nick

 

Pic 1: at 2,802m on highest paved road in France

Pic 2: Seafront at Nice. HOT and heavy traffic

[triumphlux]

Was really nice to have a chat in Luxemburg with you guys.

And quite painfull not to be in the run as I did half of the Col de la Bonette years ago with the bike. I was around easter and the snow stopped us from getting to the top.

 

I'll join you in 2015 with my Vitesse

 

One pic to show how a well used Vitesse looks :

[triumphlux]

Was really nice to have a chat in Luxemburg with you guys.

And quite painfull not to be in the run as I did half of the Col de la Bonette years ago with the bike. I was around easter and the snow stopped us from getting to the top.

 

I'll join you in 2015 with my Vitesse

 

One pic to show how a well used Vitesse looks :

[triumphlux]

Looks like I'm spamming your thread ... sorry

[pomwah]

Nice photo Mr. (Herr, Monsieur) Lux!

 

And yes, I'm appropriately PO'd that I no longer live in Europe and can not participate easily in such events as the 10CR.

[Nick Jones]

Nice pic. Still waiting to see if the German police are going to send me one too....... It wasn't me, it was him....

 

James, Mr Thompson has managed to do the last two and we had 12 Americans on this one, so we're not taking mere geography as an excuse

 

Nick

[Nick Jones]

Been a bit of a gap since the last posting.........  I continue to use it and abuse it.  It's still making nasty noises from the clutch, still using lots of oil (some sweated out, mostly burnt).  Body getting scruffier with a few small holes appearing.  It is now 26 years since the original build and it's had more or less zero bodywork since then.

 

So, yesterday I swapped all the front wishbone bushes (fitted in 1989) for Superflex ones.  Not too bad a job - nearly all the bolts came out with much aggro apart from the rear one on the right, which meant I had to take the bracket off the chassis.  This being the one with the nut nearly completely obscured by the exhaust of course........ git!  This also showed up a couple more faults

1.  The bush in the end of the steering rack tube is shot and needs replacing.  Not sure if I've done it before on this car.  Certainly did on the Herald and PI......

2. The AVO dampers have eaten their 4th (?) set of bottom bushes and are now leaking.  These will have to be replaced, which pisses me off as they aren't especially old or high mileage.  The OE Armstrong ones on the rear have been on there since 1989 (having done a couple of years on the Herald before that) and are still fine.  Also contemplating a change to Canley trunnionless VLs but the need for dampers may trump that for now.

 

As my garage is mostly done now I'm running out of reasons not to do the engine swap (and investigate the clutch at the same time).  The short engine has been built for nearly a year and just hung on the engine stand.

 

I have also acquired another bonnet to restore which has not been previously messed with.  Mine has been messed with extensively in the past (including some accident damage at some point) so I didn't fancy starting again with it.  The "new" one does need some welding but doesn't need new wings.

 

Hopefully some real work to report before long

 

Nick

[Nick Jones]

Oh dear...... I'm really not very good at keeping this up to date  Must try harder.......

Anyway, it's not because nothing has been happening, although it's fair to say that other cars have been getting the lions share of attention in the missing 3 and bit years!

A quick list of the more major happenings:

Summer 2015 - it finally got it's new engine
http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/5783-2l-engine-build/&page=5

Autumn 2015 we finished the running in process (and then some) on the 2015 10CR visiting the Czech Republic and Slovenia in the process.  Bit of route juggling saw us actually visiting 12 countries, including the UK.  Nothing fell off and for the first time we got around without adding any fluids other that fuel....... result!

Slovenian side of the Austria/Slovenia border just after dawn......

Bit later on the same day, still in Slovenia but approaching Italy

Nice smooth tarmac here.......  But a few Ks before we'd been forced to slow right down by the appalling surface of the eastern side of the Vrisc pass.  Highest pass in Slovenia (and the Julian Alps), this side of it is also known as the Ruska Cesta (Russian road) as it was built by Russian POWs in 1915.  The car particularly disliked the steep cobbled hairpins with the combination of the torsional twist imposed on the chassis/tub and hammering from the cobbled conspiring to loosen all the body mounting bolts.  The very first one was enough to demonstrate that if we wanted to finish the event we were going to have to take it very easy over these - and there were lots!

Coming away from the Stelvio pass en-route to Switzerland and Luxembourg, neither on the official route....... yes, the top was down, and yes, it was damn cold!

Spring 2016 - some overdue bodywork
http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/7292-vitesse-body-tidying/

 

 

 

[Nick Jones]

2017 saw the arrival of an OE Smiths flying saucer PCV valve and pipework and soon afterwards a heater refurb involving some mods to the matrix to allow the use of a much superior heater valve. I loathe the OE Smith valves - or rather the worthless repro rip-offs of them which is all you can get these days - the diaphragms last only a few months before splitting.  In the course of this it was also discovered that the fed/return end cap of the matrix has become unsoldered allowing the majority of flow to bypass the matrix itself.  The combination of fixing that and a valve that turns on and off means a heater that actually works!

[Nick Jones]

2017 also brought a first for me and the car - a track day.  The only wet day ( and it was soaking wet!) in an otherwise sunny period, I was initially feeling a bit picked-on by the gods, but in fact it was probably a blessing in disguise.  The near new Falken SN832 tyres proved to be outstanding in the wet and allows us to mix it with cars that would otherwise left us for dead.......  The wet conditions also saved the tyres and brakes from a total roasting though we did have to go on a bit early when the brakes started to show signs of weariness.  My (already hard used) DS2500 pads were starting to crumble away! It was also son Chris's first drive of the car and he didn't take long to get the hang of it, somewhat to the chagrin of certain TR drivers on unsuitable rubber, who couldn't get away and eventually fell off the track trying....... happily in a harmless fashion!

September saw the 2017 10CR which was done with Chris for the first time.  We made things slightly harder for ourselves by electing to stay with relatives in Switzerland for two of the nights, which was very pleasant in itself, but meant that we got to drive half way across Switzerland on a Friday afternoon - and their traffic is as appalling as ours!  Car behaved flawlessly apart from getting a bit short of brakes on the way down Stelvio (theme developing here) and the starter motor throwing a hissy fit in Italy after a quick wee-stop and having to be shown the hammer to remind it of it's duties.

Grimsel pass, Rhone Glacier in the background

Stelvio pass with Roy Lacey's lovely Mk1 GT6

Timmelsjoch

and... getting a bit of a thrashing, somewhere in the Alps

 

 

[Nick Jones]

2018 has been a relatively quiet year for the car due to issues with the owner.  We did manage another Castle Coombe track day, which was also biblically wet.  This time I had both sons along, which was interesting....... No 2 son had not driven  the car before at all and RWD only on a skid-pan training day........  He proved quite confident, brave even, and fortunately it appears that computer games are good for something as after a few sessions we were arriving at Avon rise faster and faster and he was leaving braking later an later until he decided to not even lift off for the rise, which is a bit exciting when arriving at 100 mph....... and doesn't leave much time to brake for Quarry....... we had a rather sideways moment......... then he got back on the throttle and drifted it all the way round.  I had to reign him in after that!  Just like Play-Station he claimed afterwards .  Yeah, right..... no reset button though.  Oddly enough I didn't let the lads out together!

That day also took it's toll on the brakes.  Reckon there is no getting away from the fact that I need to fit vented discs at least......

So, as of November 2018 the to-do list stands at (in no particular order)

- Vented discs with new wide M16 calipers.  Might look at doing rear discs as well - most of my recent braking issues seem to come from the rear - down to crappy parts I think.
-  There's still a small hole in the front bottom corner of the LH rear arch that needs digging out and welding.
- Got to do something about the diff which can now be heard at 70mph with the top down.....
-  Something weird going on with the clutch which needs ever-larger master cylinders to get full disengagement.  I started at 5/8" and I've now arrived at 3/4"!
- Tidy up the wheels, going white and flaky under the lacquer.
-  Fit an oil temperature gauge (which may lead to other things)
-  Rebuild, paint and fit the other bonnet (biggish job).
-  Vented discs with new wide M16 calipers.  Might look at doing rear discs as well - most of my recent braking issues seem to come from the rear - down to crappy parts I think.
-  Needs paint all over......
-  Throttle bodies....... to wring the best from the cam.
-  Drivers seat (MGF) needs love as has a split diapragm and bolster has a hole worn in it.
-  Dash needs love
- Hood has shrunk and needs easing or replacing

The brakes and the diff are the most pressing.......
 

[Nick Jones]

So I'm finally getting to the vented brakes and fitting the CC trunnion-less conversion I've had waiting for a while.  The driving force is that I need the original vertical links etc for the GT6.....

Having done a fair bit of preparation......

.....................I was hoping it would all go quite smoothly.  Yeah..... right!

Started on the right hand side, and I'm still on it.  Old parts came off no problem and I got the the new spherical bearing housing mounted easily enough. 

I'm no fan of it's design and will be keeping a close eye on it.  When I went to fit the link assembly I found that the 1/2" nut (which is scarily thin as supplied considering the weight of the front corner hangs on it!) catches on the joint retaining circlip at full droop.....  not acceptable! 

Spacers are often used in applications like this to allow a bit more movement.... but none supplied here.  So I found an old rear trunnion spacer tube and gave it a ride in the lathe, and it became two spacer rings.  I also found a deeper nut...... (new one for final fit!). 

Misses the cirip now (just), but I am suspicious that the ultra-shallow nut has been chosen for a reason and my spacer + deeper nut will prove to cause other issues.....

Suspension will be compressed to full bump to make sure it doesn't clout the block...

Then went to fit the hub and brake disc.  The hub has had 1.5mm removed from the disc mounting face and has been fitted with new Timken bearings.  Problem no.1 was that the inner bearing was too tight on the new stub axle.  I had previously had issues with it (one of the two new stub axles I bought is slightly oversize) and had fettled it to fit the old bearing I used for the dry-build on the bench - which must have been slightly worn.  More fettling until it fits.  Fit and set up the bearing spacer kit - which is a thing of joy - and aftermarket part that fits and works!  It this point it becomes obvious that the track rod end is in actual contact with the disc.......  Take it all apart again to add spacers under the steering arm which I was hoping to avoid..... This also meant finding longer bolts. There is now a gap - but not a generous one.  Going to need to find some skinnier TREs

Offered up my test caliper..... spacers are needed but not large ones. 

Doesn't show up in the pics but the disc is central in the caliper - so my measurements appear to have worked.  Hopefully the actual calipers will be the same when they've been overhauled and spaced!

What a palaver!

 

[Alex]

I thought this was all supposed to be an easy and direct replacement! 

[thebrookster]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

I thought this was all supposed to be an easy and direct replacement! 

OCD at work 

The easy and direct replacement only happens after Nick has solved all the problems lol

Phil

[Nick Jones]

9 hours ago, Alex said:

I thought this was all supposed to be an easy and direct replacement! 

Yeah, you’d hope......

More a case of basic wish to survive than advanced OCD here I think Phil, though not denying the underlying OCD.......

 

[triumphlux]

I seem to remember an old thread from GT where he noticed that the new spherical bearing housing moves on the lower wishbones.He solved the issue with a pin which goes through the wishbone in to the spherical bearing housing.

I'll check if I find a picture.

JC

[Nick Jones]

I know there have been some problems with this on some cars - but seems to relate to whether the bolt hole in the wishbone is at all worn/elongated.   Tempting to weld it to the wishbone, but distinctly non-reversible......

Dave welded tabs to the back edge of his with holes to pick up on the damper bolt - nice solution if you are running spherical joints in the bottom of the damper and have room....

In other news, this arrived (well, I had to go and get it)

Vitesse HC prefix.  Been under a bench as a spare for at least 30 years.  It turns.... grubby inside.  Best case - it can be salvaged with a hone of the bores, rings,shells and a good clean out.  Medium case, it provides a usable thin head casting and 308778 cam. Worst case - all scrap....... Was reasonably priced.  Still bloody heavy though.

 

[Nick Jones]

So on the brake callipers....... once the spacers are fitted the pad retaining pins will be too short.....

The sorry excuse for a kit doesn’t include longer ones and these are 16Ps with 1/4” pins so no robbing them from M16wide callipers (Capri/Grandada)......

I can make some I suppose but is there an usual route that I’ve missed?

[Mark]

I think I used long split pins when fitting mine, need to look to remind myself.

Mark

[Mark]

Yes I did.

[Nick Jones]

Ta...

that's the "Lockheed method"  Found some long 1/4" bolts today.  I can reduce the heads, cut off the threaded section and drill a hole for an r-clip and they will look like the real thing but longer.  Feel a conversion "kit" should include them!

[Nick Jones]

Back on its wheels and brakes bled.

Was somewhat surprised to find the wheels obviously toe-in when I was expecting toe out due to the spacers added. Then I measured the camber.......

2 degrees negative when previously 0.5 degrees. Clearly the trunnionless kit moves the bottom swivel point out a good few mm. Now I have to prat about with reshimming all that....... then set the tracking. I was expecting the tracking to be affected but not 1.5 degrees camber change.

[GT6 Nick]

Interesting... when I fitted the trunnionless kit to my GT6, it was as part of a full rebuild, so I didn’t realise that the camber would be different for the same number of shims. No doubt there’s an instruction to ‘check wheel alignment after fitting’?

I also fitted Canley’s red AP four-pot calipers and thicker discs, and found that the calipers’ mounting lugs’ inner faces needed machining down by a millimetre to sit centrally on the discs. The maiden voyage featured a lot of squeaks and scrapes! 

Edited March 19, 2019 by GT6 Nick
Autocorrect is really annoying

[RedRooster]

Never checked mine after i fitted the kit, now i will worry about it and have to do it all again.

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, RedRooster said:

Never checked mine after i fitted the kit, now i will worry about it and have to do it all again.

Sorry...... 

I want to replicate the settings that I started with as it drove very nicely and I’ll be grumpy if that’s messed up.

I also note that keeping the calliper central on the disc is something of a challenge due to wandering tolerances in several places. My test calliper was bang-on on the left but offset about 1mm inwards on the right.  Both the actual callipers are about 1mm offset inwards compared to the test calliper - this leaves things very close on the right. Thinner spacers on the calliper mounts will sort that...... but bring the calliper even nearer the hub......