Nick's US-spec GT6

[GT6 Nick]

Does anyone know if early and late GT6 floorpans are the same?

 

Canley Classics' new catalogue only lists them for 'early Spitfires and GT6s', but their old catalogue doesn't say whether the pans (part number M140) are for early, late or both. The Rimmers catalogue isn't age/model specific either.

[JMH]

New floorpans can be used on all spit and gt6 models; they are not perfect - but close!

 

Don't be tempted to buy some ebay old repro-junk, you will use a lot of time trying to make it fit.

 

My standard speach:

 

New floor pans are repro panels, but far far better than those available in the 90'. They are good but certainly not perfedt reproductions of the originals:

- The outer floor flange for the sill is not (always) as deep as the original, which makes the whole sill assembly try to sit higher than it wants to. That shouldn´t be a problem, if you are only are only replacing the front footwell

- The area around the outrigger to floor bracket is poor and the bracket never fits in place as it should (and new bracket needs heavy treatment with hammer&grinder - its too wide and to looooong!)

 

You might get away with replacing only the front 1/4 - could save you some £££ in transport?

[GT6 Nick]

Andy Thompson in Western Australia forwarded a package of Gareth's valves to me this week. I'm no expert on valves, so they look pretty normal to me. But if they flow as advertised, all the better.

 

As I'm stuck in Brisbane at the moment and have had a local cylinder head specialist recommended to me, I immediately thought of sending the head to him now. However, I've also got a set of Gareth's 60 thou pistons on order. At 60 thou overbore, I calculate a chamber volume of approximately 32cc to give a compression of 11:1 - high, but the concensus seems to be that a long duration cam will work well with compression that high, and the pistons are designed to take it. However, I've decided to wait until the bottom end is complete, as Gareth's pistons apparently have a raised crown. Only when the pistons are in place and the block decked will I be able to accurately specify the combustion chamber volumes.

 

There was a mention in Bruce's long head thread about opening up the rear waterway in the head - Dave's work shown below. Is this to improve water flow around the rearmost cylinder?

[GT6 Nick]

Lots of shiny new bits have arrived in the mail recently, so I've been able to start assembling the GT's suspension. Ebay turned up a set of red Polybushes very cheaply, and it's got Konis and a pair of Triumphtune 330lb/in springs dredged from the spares collection. My Herald's 450lb/in springs would be even better, but I already had the TT ones.

 

I'm increasing the front PCD to 4.5" to match the Datsun rear hubs, and so trial-fitted a 2.5 hub to confirm that (1) it bolts up to the GT6 disc and (2) fits on the stub axle. The GT6 and saloons share the same wheel bearings, which are larger than TR6/Spitfire bearings. I've found that while the larger hubs fit the stub axles, the saloon hubs space their bearings further apart, so the outer bearing partly obscures the split pin hole. I may need to have some new, 1/4" longer stubs machined, unless 2.5 ones fit. It's worth a try.

 

I've also cleaned and painted my Subaru LSD diff and fitted the adapters so that it will bolt in place without chassis mods. One thing I've wondered about - the plate that the spring mounts on doesn't have a recess machined into it for the spring to sit in, like a Triumph diff does. With six bolts the spring should be located pretty well, but if necessary I could modify the adapter plate to prevent any twisting movement. Opinions?

[Nick Jones]

Coming on then  

 

I don't like that spring location (or lack of).  I also think that the width of the spring mounting plate plus the arch of the spring will cause the spring to bottom at the edges of the plate well before the centre is pulled down.  One way round this would be to use a lowering block (which you may need anyway) and weld some suitable bits of strip onto the spring mounting plate to loacte it more positively. Or have the lowering block replicated in steel and weld it straight on.

 

That spring plate is actually pretty critical as it locates the spring - which acts as the top link, so any inaccuracies or movement in the centre are magnified many times at the ends leading to rear suspension geometry/set-up issues.  This is not just speculation - at least one forum contributor has had these issues.  All this before the question of rear castor is considered.....  It is these issues that have so far stopped me from going for this otherwise rather desirable conversion.

 

Not intending to be negative - just  suggesting this area needs a bit of care  

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[GT6 Nick]

Coming on then  

 

I don't like that spring location (or lack of).  I also think that the width of the spring mounting plate plus the arch of the spring will cause the spring to bottom at the edges of the plate well before the centre is pulled down.  One way round this would be to use a lowering block (which you may need anyway) and weld some suitable bits of strip onto the spring mounting plate to loacte it more positively. Or have the lowering block replicated in steel and weld it straight on.

 

Good idea that. I'd thought about making side strips to help hold the spring in place, but hadn't thought about the width of the mount. I have a 1" alloy spacer formerly used to slam my Herald, so could use that as a pattern for a steel one.

 

Now I've started assembling the Subaru adapters for the first time, I've started wondering about how that spring plate locates to the diff - through 6 bolts that are only about M6. It may be worth getting a new plate made which uses all 5 bolts on each side. There's only half a car hanging off those bolts!

[Nick Jones]

Yeah.... that diff conversion "kit" could use some development IMO - mostly relating to that plate!  Watching with interest  ;D

 

Nick

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Some progress

 

Cheers for the diff kit pics I can look at them doing mine, Ford or Subaru?!

 

Probably Subaru like the idea of a 12" propshaft? and £30 replacements.

 

Agree with the Orangutan, I'd look at bracing that spring bracket.

 

I am concerned with castor also, remember the stock diff angles down to the front flange, to give what should be about 1.5deg of castor, reverse angle to the front.

 

I intent to lift the nose of my diff to get the perfect prop angle as castor will be set on seperate wishbones/chassis, so this kit would be no use if it has the stock or unknown geo.

 

[GT6 Nick]

Well, the diff's in place now. The brackets lined up pretty well, although the spring's just sitting in place at the moment. I've decided to use Subaru CVs rather than the UJ and sliding spline axles, because the sliding spline axles are much thicker and heavier. I can see them easily hitting the chassis rails at full droop, whereas the CV shafts are only as thick as Herald axles.

 

Been looking at the top plate as well. It was designed as a bolt-on alternative to the original Fraser Cars method, which was to weld the top of a Herald diff to a Datsun/Subaru diff casing! I know of a couple of Vitesses using the spring hangers with no problems so far. It's a part that can be beefed up later if I decide to. I will improve the spring location though. The cast alloy plate has fill and drain holes, as well as level and breather holes for 1/8" BSP fittings. I've fitted a magnetic drain plug, and will be able to top up the diff through the breather tank from inside the car. Experience has shown that fitting Japanese parts in British cars causes them to leak.

 

Looking at it, I suspect the driveshaft will be about 24" long, not 12. But still tiny! As regards castor angle, it looks as though it can be adjusted by shimming the nose of the diff up or down.

 

I've also trial-fitted a pair of NOS Herald Gabriel gas shocks, and it looks as though they'll be the right length. Bonus - a friend gave them to me a few years ago, long after his old Herald succumbed to rust (he still runs a beautiful TR3A and 6) .'Nuff waffle.

[Nick Jones]

That doesn't look bad at all.....

 

Just thinking about your earlier comment about more attachment points for the plate, I think there is a pretty easy way to do this (which would also stiffen it up for transverse loads)..... see pic.

 

Nick

 

Red lines show the basic version - just butt weld to the back of the existing plate.  The yellow is where you overlap the plates and use the front edge for sping location

[GT6 Nick]

Hmmm, I like! An elegant solution, and so simple even I could make it. Thanks Orangutan!

[GT6 Nick]

This week I've been learning about how to flare brake pipe. Actually, what I've mostly done is learn how NOT to flare it! As the car's being converted to right hand drive, and I plan to fit a booster to the front circuit (just as Triumph did), the GT6 will need some new brake pipes made up. At the same time, I figured I might as well replace all the original pipework. New is better, right?

 

Step 1 was to buy a proper Sykes Pickavant tool, 20' of pipe and some unions. The tool's the sort where you clamp it in a vice and pull a lever to press a boss into the end of the pipe. I found it takes quite a bit of force to make anything like a good flare, in fact I nearly pulled the workbench over   It worked slightly better when I unbolted the vice from the bench and parked the 4WD on top of it, but still not good enough - I'd probably bend the lever before getting a nice flare! In hindsight I suspect the tool is designed to work with copper pipe - which isn't legal here. (To be fair, copper can fracture if it's not well supported, and steel pipe won't rust fast in Australia).

 

On to Plan B  - I found a cheaper tool which uses a screw to apply much greater force to the end of the pipe. It works far better, so I've been practicing how to make single and double flares. Both require a fair amount of skill, so I of course have a collection of lopsided, skewed and bent flares instead. The success rate's going up though, with the help of a few 'how-to' websites.

 

Even my best flares aren't as nice as the factory's though. In fact, after comparing my flares with the factory's, I cleaned the crud off the pipes and decided that most are in fact in perfect condition. No rust, no cracks and the union threads look mint. And so to Plan C - reusing as many as possible! It sounds dodgy, but they don't appear to have been bent or bashed, and were removed carefully so I could use them as patterns.

 

The less I change on this car, the easier the restoration seems to be. There's a lesson here somewhere...

[Nick Jones]

Ah..... flaring tools  > not my favourite either! I can relate to your collection of misformed ends.  I find that after 4 or 5 goes I can usually get an acceptable single flare......

 

Do they allow "Kunifer" pipe.  Easier to form than steel (though harder than copper) and doesn't rust.  Supposed to be fatigue cracking resistant.

 

Nick

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Yes I did my own lines on a sykes tool, right, wasn't easy to get results I did quite a few before I was happy, there was a very defined method, length of meterial hanging out the forming piece etc.

[GT6 Nick]

I've dropped the GT6's body back on the chassis to check that the Subaru diff and spring don't foul the body. They don't - even with a 1" spacer, the spring's top plate only just protrudes through the diff inspection hole. One of Bill's new plastic plates should cure that. Putting the body back on the chassis also means the car only takes up half as much garage space, and I can park it sideways in the back of the garage. If you squint a bit, the GT6 looks like a car again!

 

A couple of questions for the wise heads here. Firstly, I shortened my Type 9's remote selector by 65mm. Some people have shortened them even further but that's a lot more difficult, requiring cutting and shutting in two or more places - I was happy to cut it in one place. The tig-welder has done a great job and it's perfectly aligned. However, I think I've lost a component from the alloy tail section, as the gear selection is tricky, and the gearlever isn't sprung in a particular plane, eg 3rd-4th. Is it as standard? I can't remember now. There's a little plate on the right hand side with a spring behind it, and the plate has a witness mark showing that the spring does indeed butt up against it, but I can't find anything in the carefully itemised pile of parts that looks like it should be attached to the inner end of the spring. Can anyone help? I haven't been able to download any pdf diagrams of a Type 9 to check. (They're supposedly available if you pay, but all I got was 'transaction denied' and a fascinating new source of spam).  :B

 

Secondly, I've been considering Canley Classics' CV conversion kits today. Plan A was to use Datsun 240-280 hubs, make some hub-inner-flange adapters and use Subaru CVs and custom shafts to connect to the Subaru diff. However, there aren't any machine shops within two hours drive, I'm about 800km from any wrecking yards which might have Datsun parts, and I don't want to play the eBay 'buy it and then see if it'll work' game. If I fit a Canleys kit it'll only need a pair of simple adapters made to adapt the inner CVs to the Subaru diff. The rotoflex uprights apparently don't need machining, and the kit comes with shafts and CVs. It certainly sounds easier... Please don't suggest I start hunting for Volvo 340, MGF or Rover 100 parts in Oz by the way, they were only sold here in vanishingly small numbers except, maybe, for MGFs. So, how do the Canley 'developed over 8 years' kits hold up?

[Millstone10]

Hi Nick

 

Doesn't Greg Tunstall in Brisbane have a spitfire converted to a CV rear end?

 

Nigel

[GT6 Mike]

Hope this helps,

[tim_trinda]

Secondly, I've been considering Canley Classics' CV conversion kits today. Plan A was to use Datsun 240-280 hubs, make some hub-inner-flange adapters and use Subaru CVs and custom shafts to connect to the Subaru diff. However, there aren't any machine shops within two hours drive, I'm about 800km from any wrecking yards which might have Datsun parts, and I don't want to play the eBay 'buy it and then see if it'll work' game. If I fit a Canleys kit it'll only need a pair of simple adapters made to adapt the inner CVs to the Subaru diff. The rotoflex uprights apparently don't need machining, and the kit comes with shafts and CVs. It certainly sounds easier... Please don't suggest I start hunting for Volvo 340, MGF or Rover 100 parts in Oz by the way, they were only sold here in vanishingly small numbers except, maybe, for MGFs. So, how do the Canley 'developed over 8 years' kits hold up?

 

Why not go for one of Nick Js CV kits probably cheaper than the CC kit AND eliminates those nasty rotoflex shimmed bearings.

 

[GT6 Nick]

Thanks Mike, I think that tells me what sort of part to look for. Are those photos from an article on how to rebuild a Type 9? Do you have any more photos?

 

Tim, Nick J's kit sounds good, the use of modern bearings is clever. My understanding, though, was that it still requires sourcing various components from wrecked cars such as the Volvo, MGF and Rover 100. Out of the three, I think I've seen an MGF once in three years, and am pretty sure Volvo 340s were never sold here at all. Is the kit available complete?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tim_trinda]

Is the kit available complete?

 

Yes it is.

 

Prices probably a bit out of date

http://www.sideways-technologies.co.uk/forum/Blah.pl?m-1232055018/

[Nick Jones]

Complete kits can be provided you are not in too much hurry.  The irritation from my point of view is that you probably wouldn't want to send the exchange VLs back and I'd have to find more.....  which is a real lottery as so may of the UK ones are shot   .  The irritation from your point of view is that any spares needed would probably have to come from over here.

 

I have no idea what you'd have to do to make it work with the Subaru diff though - guess the same problem applies with the Canley stuff though?  The answer may come from NZ..... surely this has been done several times (at least) using Datsun parts?  I'm thinking Rockys Triumph pages....

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[GT6 Nick]

I don't mind sending a pair of vertical links in exchange - would you want them sandblasted first? (I can arrange that locally). Spare parts - do you use the same CVs as the Canleys kit? Their CVs and boots are available separately.

 

Rocky's axles to date have used UJs and sliding splines, which are heavy. As for adapting the shafts to the Subaru diff - it's narrower than the Triumph equivalent, I think (will have to lift the body off again to measure precisely) and I can turn a couple of old Subaru inner CVs into adapter plates for the Bowler-Jones or Canley axles.

 

Cheers for the suggestions guys - more ideas are always better than me sitting in the garage, staring at a pile of parts and scratching my head!

[GT6 Mike]

Thanks Mike, I think that tells me what sort of part to look for. Are those photos from an article on how to rebuild a Type 9? Do you have any more photos?

 

Tim, Nick J's kit sounds good, the use of modern bearings is clever. My understanding, though, was that it still requires sourcing various components from wrecked cars such as the Volvo, MGF and Rover 100. Out of the three, I think I've seen an MGF once in three years, and am pretty sure Volvo 340s were never sold here at all. Is the kit available complete?

 

 

I do have a strip / rebuild article electronically, current file size is way to large, i'll try and get it reduced and post it in here.

 

If you are thinking of going down the Rover CV route, the spline pattern on the rover shaft matches the spline pattern of the Subaru plug in CV joint that goes into the diff. (hope that makes sense)

[Nick Jones]

I don't mind sending a pair of vertical links in exchange - would you want them sandblasted first? (I can arrange that locally). Spare parts - do you use the same CVs as the Canleys kit? Their CVs and boots are available separately.

 

Rocky's axles to date have used UJs and sliding splines, which are heavy. As for adapting the shafts to the Subaru diff - it's narrower than the Triumph equivalent, I think (will have to lift the body off again to measure precisely) and I can turn a couple of old Subaru inner CVs into adapter plates for the Bowler-Jones or Canley axles.

 

Cheers for the suggestions guys - more ideas are always better than me sitting in the garage, staring at a pile of parts and scratching my head!

 

Thanks for reminding me about the splines Mike.  Some caution needed here - I suspect there are different forms of these diffs around with different joints?

 

Nick, How much narrower?  Are you planning to use the Datsun style output shafts or what?  IE are we trying to interface to a flange or to a female spline?  Need to get meself one of these subaru thingys.....

 

Outer CV joints are used on R100 and MGF.  The gaiters would be the same as MANY others.  Inner CVs are unique to the volvo 340 as far as I can tell but only the inner spider is special, the other parts are interchangeable with other 93mm lobro.

 

Nick

[GT6 Nick]

The Subaru diff has short splined halfshafts, to which the inner CVs slide on and are retained with a cross-pin. My first idea was to cut down the inner CVs, and weld on flanges with the same bolt pattern as the Triumph diff's flanges. That way, any CV kit designed to bolt to a Triumph diff could be used.

 

If the Jones/Bowler halfshafts fit into the Subaru CVs and are the right length (BIG if) that would make it even simpler. I seem to recall that Ray (2litre-e) did something like this with Subaru inner CVs, but had to get custom shafts made. I'd prefer to avoid that hassle if possible.

 

I'll lift the body up tomorrow and measure the Subaru diff's width.