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Posted

 

Mike, from the picture the surface look a bit orangy, is this tru?

 

Frederick

 

Yes, it's caused by the shot penning process

 

Checked the weights today 480g vs 644g for a standard rod

 

The will fit down a standard bore but I've not tried the rotating clearance yet.

 

Fixings are 5/16"

 

Only problem I've found so far is that the little end diameter is 22.15mm, standard is around 20.7mm ish I think without checking.

 

I'll send them an email on Monday to find out why.

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Posted

Mike,

is your plan to put this rod in your engine and drive around with it til failure?  If so, what revs do you expect to subject it to and for how long?  Are you going to be able to measure it often?

I'm not picking at you just trying to determine what will be the stamp of approval at the end of testing.

Posted
Mike,

is your plan to put this rod in your engine and drive around with it til failure?  If so, what revs do you expect to subject it to and for how long?  Are you going to be able to measure it often?

I'm not picking at you just trying to determine what will be the stamp of approval at the end of testing.

 

No problem Steve, only have one rod at the moment as there were a few issues raised regarding fitment to our engines. I was'nt willing to part with any money until I was sure they fitted ok so I asked if they could send a sample FOC, which they have. Once I am happy that they are of decent design / quality I will probably order a set of six for my next rebuild. A friend of mine is also in the process of building a new race engine and is considering fitting a set into that.

 

My car is for road use only, rev limit is 7300 rpm, standard rods seem to be coping with that ok. Just interested as they seem quite a good price and I like to tinker, they are also 164g per rod lighter which equates to a saving of 984g.

 

 

 

Posted

Totally accept your thinking.  I'm selfishly wondering how I'd know they're safe in my race engine.  Price just seems too good to be true.

 

For what it's worth my Pauter rods are 509 grams and the Carrillp's are 470.  Pistons are 266 grams from CP.

Posted
Price just seems too good to be true.

 

Totally agree, but as they have sent a rod FOC its worth doing a bit of investigation.

 

I'll get them dimensionally checked at work and talk to some of the designers I work with to see what checks / tests they suggest.

 

 

Posted

Interesting eh?

 

I said

"If you leave 1mm on the outside of each rod (also minimal), then it leaves 19.6666 which clearly leaves a max fastener size of 9mm or say 5/8"

 

So in fact I was right because they were forced to go to 5/16" which is a little under 8mm or the same size as a Triumph valve stem. (7.9375mm), with roughly the same strength SEE..!

(which to be fair they did state in the ad) :D

 

They also got the pin diam wrong because they used the Dolomite/Jag size which makes for a dead weak small end/thin wall too!

 

MADE IN CHINA, (Kitayski) lasts as long as it takes to get it out of the shop and down the road.

 

(It's not me that says it, we have vast galleries of broken stuff in Russia too, from their microphone stands to their coaches, to kiddies toys!!- damn it, I even have a broken Chinese kettle - lasted 6 months which it says was made in Amsterdam!

My A it was !  >:(

 

I Bet you ...

 

ARP2000 exclusive, hybrid-alloy developed to deliver superior strength and better fatigue properties. While 8740 and ARP2000 share similar characteristics � ARP2000 is capable of achieving clamp loads in the 215,000-220,000 psi range. ARP2000 is used widely in short track and drag racing as an up-grade from 8740 chrome moly in both steel and aluminum rods. Stress corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement are typically not a problem, providing care is taken during installation.

 

Quoted Text

Transforming raw material into a fastener begins with “hot†and “cold†heading processes. Material is fed into powerful devices and cold forged, or induction-heated and formed under tons of pressure.

 

Quoted Text

The thread rolling operation (to MIL-S-8879A specs) is done after heat-treat, which accounts for a fatigue strength up to ten times higher than fasteners which are threaded prior to heat-treat.

 

It's all b ...ll..x copied and pasted from the ARP web site!!!  ;D

 

Oh and what's the guarantee terms btw????

 

"All Maxspeeding rods can stand over 1000BHP(HP) and 10000RPM to accomplish all kinds of racing applications perfectly.

However, you must choose the right rods bolts for your application. All Maxspeeding rods equipped ARP2000 bolts(default bolts for all our auctions) are good for 800BHP(HP) and 9000 RPM.

 

Yea right!!

I wanna see them stand 200bhp on such a weak fastener!

What does "accomplish" mean?????

 

Chinese stuff doesn't last!)

Posted

The point is;- do you actually BELIEVE what you read on the internet???

 

Having an alibaba a/c can be quite useful btw.  ::)

 

manufacturer is more than 80% likely:-

 

Sichuan Mianzhu Xinkun Machinery Making Co., Ltd.  

http://www.scxinkun.com/

 

 

 

contact Mr. Louis Liu  (which would explain why they used the french word "bielles" in the ad) as he speaks french?

 

City: Mianzhu

Province/State: Sichuan

Country/Region : China

Luofan Village, Tumen Town, Mianzhu, Sichuan, China Zip: 618217

Direct Line: 0086-838-6604889  Fax: 0086-838-6602310

 

Total Annual Sales Volume: US$2.5 Million - US$5 Million  

Trade Shows: IAAE show in Tokyo(13rd.March to 15th.March)

Automechanika Show in Germany

AAPEX/SEMA Show in Las Vegas  

 

They also make a lot of Chevy/GM cranks.

 

I can bet you 99.99% they use their own fasteners nothing whatsoever to do with ARP or all the stuff they spout on the sales stuff (internet ye know!!).

 

Xinkun is certified ISO 9002 system of standard quality certification, and it received the certificate of ISO/TS 16949 international standard quality management system that is issued by TUV CERT.

 

FYI the company HT I used in Letchworth were also ISO certified, but were the biggest bunch of w..kers, I have ever seen in my life, leaving crankshafts to go rusty on the floor for 3 months, then claiming they didn't have instructions..so you can always stuff ISO standards up your bum, when it suits you or hurts less than a good dose of piles!!  >:(

 

Finally

Price per rod is about 20Euro (good guess), so at the Ebay price they make 100% profit (so can afford the odd failure!)

 

Is this it?

 

http://www.scxinkun.com/UploadFile/2007122814136667.jpg

Posted

BTW the standard Triumph pin size is 20.64mm, same as Austin cooper S, which is 13/16"

(an odd imperial size not in much demand).

 

Except triumph size is longer,-  58mm long, ID 13.1mm.

 

I know because I'm making 100off just now.

Material for hi performance,- 14NiCr14 case hardened, 62+/- HRC depth 0.5mm.

Posted

I think you'll have fun!

 

minimum order is 50 sets.

 

That's how these blokes do it.

 

Buy REAL cheap, mix the slow sellers up with the fast ones, get a min order in with the supplier made of all sorts, shapes and sizes. make a killing selling the fast overs at 400% profit, flog off the slow ones as a loss leader CHEAPER to get shot of them. (smarty)

 

At that rate they can afford to THROW AWAY the ones that are wrong, like the one you are holding.

made for nothing, made as a quicky speculation, thrown away, cos it's cheaper than the postage to send it back!(java)

 

Nothing new under the (rising) sun!  :D

 

(Damn that was Japan!) (chinese)  

Posted
The point is;- do you actually BELIEVE what you read on the internet???

 

Having an alibaba a/c can be quite useful btw.  ::)

 

manufacturer is more than 80% likely:-

 

Sichuan Mianzhu Xinkun Machinery Making Co., Ltd.  

http://www.scxinkun.com/

 

 

 

contact Mr. Louis Liu  (which would explain why they used the french word "bielles" in the ad) as he speaks french?

 

City: Mianzhu

Province/State: Sichuan

Country/Region : China

Luofan Village, Tumen Town, Mianzhu, Sichuan, China Zip: 618217

Direct Line: 0086-838-6604889  Fax: 0086-838-6602310

 

Total Annual Sales Volume: US$2.5 Million - US$5 Million  

Trade Shows: IAAE show in Tokyo(13rd.March to 15th.March)

Automechanika Show in Germany

AAPEX/SEMA Show in Las Vegas  

 

They also make a lot of Chevy/GM cranks.

 

I can bet you 99.99% they use their own fasteners nothing whatsoever to do with ARP or all the stuff they spout on the sales stuff (internet ye know!!).

 

Xinkun is certified ISO 9002 system of standard quality certification, and it received the certificate of ISO/TS 16949 international standard quality management system that is issued by TUV CERT.

 

FYI the company HT I used in Letchworth were also ISO certified, but were the biggest bunch of w..kers, I have ever seen in my life, leaving crankshafts to go rusty on the floor for 3 months, then claiming they didn't have instructions..so you can always stuff ISO standards up your bum, when it suits you or hurts less than a good dose of piles!!  >:(

 

Finally

Price per rod is about 20Euro (good guess), so at the Ebay price they make 100% profit (so can afford the odd failure!)

 

Is this it?

 

http://www.scxinkun.com/UploadFile/2007122814136667.jpg

 

What is your problem, I am not trying to sell these rods, I am interested, as are others to establish if they are any good or not. This is not costing me anything and its not costing you anything.

 

The above may or may not be the same company, the link to the picture is different to the picture I posted of the rod I have.

 

You obviously have no interest in these rods and have already dismissed them, that's fair enough.

 

If you are just trying to provoke a debate, great, carry on but at least come up with something constructive.

 

 

 

Posted

I thought I WAS coming up with something constructive.

Your motives are not in the slightest suspect.

 

I reckoned, pointing out the things to watch for, to be highly useful.

 

If you don't like it, I'll go back and have a good Vodka-Glazov & Creme de Cassis.

(The biz actually, you should try it!)

 

You can always say "on ya bike" (scooter) for that if you like, - it's not made in China, it doesn't last either ;D

Posted

Really it's about how much performance difference saving all that weight makes to a road going car isn't it?

 

Sounds like nearly a kilo from 4 rods or was it 6 but that surely is a big difference in mass that does not have to be accelerated every rpm etc?

 

How does the maths work out?

 

Is it like the flywheel calculation but better ?

Posted

Fitting a set of lightweight steel rods is very similar to taking 2-3kg off the flywheel without the attendant loss in torque.

Makes NO difference at all in theory to the power output.

 

You get the same effect changing say from the Mk1V to Mk111 Spitfire engine, (everything's lighter), except in that case the frictional losses are a whole league lower too.

 

I'm not knocking for its own sake, it's just me and loads of other friends in the trade HATE chinese stuff, and will do anything to derail it.

Luckily they do plenty of that themselves "for the time being", cos their quality control is crap, so we worry about in 3yrs time, especially when the recession has killed off ALL the guys in the west who really know their stuff.

 

All we'll get left with by 2011 is "cheap as chips" chinese stuff with loads of engine failures and zilch guarantees to back them, and no more valid engine builders left to sort them out and act as Gendarmes.

 

This stuff is the thin end of the wedge, just like the *&*^!^"!$) chinese coaches, saloon cars & lorries we already have in Russia, which you never see in the nice cosy UK YET!

We're a lot closer to China than you, and my computer hardware already costs 40% of Uk prices.

 

I can get on a train any day of the week, and be at that factory above in a matter of days on the trans-sib through Baikal, and do the same or better cash deal over the counter as that Ebay guy....but I refuse to do it, as it F...CKS over our own engineers.  >:(

  :'(

 

Be prepared for a FLOOD of this stuff in the EU as UST-LUGA comes on line and they trans-ship it into the Baltic and on to Tilbury by rail direct to you.

 

This is what excessive borrowing/Blair-Brown-Bush has done to us all.

You can't beat the chinese, once they're in they'll eliminate all competition, but the stuff is throw away after max ONE YEAR.

 

OK you can stick this in the ranting area... ;D

-not enough ranting-

Posted

No offence GT i know you know your stuff, but if we listened to you we wouldnt have anything in our cars as none of it is good enough. Sure in the perfect world we would have a nice hand crafted part from the uk made by some master craftsman.  Unfortunatly we dont have a perfect world and i dont have that GT40 in the garage.

 

We have to make do with what we can afford in our price range.

 

If these rods are as strong as a std rod yet 100 grams lighter then these are still a good buy for anyone attempting to build a low reving engine i.e. a fat crank triumph.

Posted

Hey MAtt et al

 

I think you've touched on the crux of the discussion.  You and Mike are looking for something that MAY be better than a stock rod on a street engine and you may well have found it.  Myself, and most probably Gareth, intend to thrash a rod to the limits so he WOULD tend to look askance at anything less than optimum.

 

I don't trust a stock rod with the abuse I heap upon it, I'm suffering with stock cranks and wouldn't DREAM of subjecting a stock piston to my abuses.

 

That's a big problem with this forum, at least for me, I only see these cars as racers so my advice and thinking is often stilted.  I forget that they once got groceries so I forget the way they were delivered.  But that's why we're on this forum instead of so many others available.  

 

I suspect GT thinks that way as well so try to see both sides of the argument...

 

And if that Kumbaya diatribe works I'm heading off to Palestine soon... ;D

Posted

Fine balance between worthwhile and a waste of money.

 

Also "your" unit, versus a "customers" unit.

 

That's why I don't like the idea of building engines for anyone...(on mass)

 

I refuse to build a high output engine using stock pistons and stock rods, cause something is likely to let go, you can't hand pick every part you'll get through 100 engines to make 10...The rods are up to 45years old ! They are well past their limits. Who knows where they have been!

 

As such, yes, there's a market for cheap rods that work, just to get away from using nasty old junk.

 

This situation gets WORSE year on year as each part of your car ages, just like you, parts don't generally get better with age  >:(

 

This is why my car now has a modern engine, modern brakes, new uprights, new stub axles, uprated hubs, new master cylinders, modern gearbox, modern new wiring, new lights, new radiator, I've moved forward 30 years ! Bored of pissing about with FRAGILE stuff thats likely to kill you. Saying that, looking at some of the shat in the garage, you need to REALLY watch what you are buying if it's new, case of hand selecting EACH part, and bashing the people producing rubbish, till they either give up or raise quality.

 

I wish I was TOTALLY clueless and naive again, they were good days, ignorance is great, cause someone is producing something means it's gonna work and it's safe, GET REAL! most of the guys don't know their arse from their elbow ...... ::)

Posted

Just out of curiousity, I e-mailed the seller and asked for some references from racers. Someone somewhere has revved the crap out of them and either been happy, or airmailed one and bought a new engine.


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