Door Locks FS...

[lordleonusa]

OK, for my latest (relatively cheap) project, I have decided that it is high time that I did something about the locks on my Vitesse.

 

They all work perfectly, BUT...

 

The two door locks, (yes one on each side, which is not standard), are differently keyed.

The cubby hole lock has a 3rd number key, the two bonnet locks, although matched with each other have a fourth key, and the boot/trunk handle has a 5th number.

 

And, I am fed up with all those almost identical keys on my keyring.

 

I really want all my locks to be the same, and as the most difficult lock to extract seems to be the boot handle lock, I propose to match them all to that one.

 

What I want, what I really, really want, (kof), is some more spare locks to play with, as I need to get hold of at least nine number 7 brass pins and about five number 8 brass pins, therefore if anyone reading this list has any spare locks they could send me, I would be eternally grateful.

 

FS877 would be the best, or any similar numbered locks.

 

Here is are some photos to show what I am up against.

 

I have some diagrams demonstrating how they are supposed to work...

 

It looks like they all contain 5 brass pins, with the back two apparently not being used by the key.

 

The photo is of a spare FS899 I took apart, with the pins laid out in order,

 

I do hope someone can help, as 40+ year old Wilmott Breeden pins are likely to be somewhat in short supply in the USA.

 

TIA

 

Léon

 

I found this on the net:

 

The principle on which all the locks work is that 5 spring-loaded pins are held out into a slot, in the body of the lock.When a properly matched key is inserted, the pins are withdrawn into the barrel of the lock which is then free to turn (see Fig. 1). To repair any locks, you will need a small file; a few key blanks; the lock removed and in your hand; and a little patience. (A good locksmith will supply you with blanks if you give him a key to look at. Dominion locks make the proper blank. Some ignitions use a flat-sided key, so you will have to get a different blank for these ignitions or change ignitions.)

 

and this:

 

PATTERNING ALL YOUR LOCKS

 

For this you will need several discarded locks as you will probably need the pins from them. All the pins are the same except for the location of the center hole (see Figure 5). To match all your locks to the same pattern you must gather together groups of 5 pins all with the same hole positions.

 

To remove the pins from a lock, grab the end of each pin with a pair of needle nose pliers and pull them out. Be careful not to lose the very tiny spring that is in the small hole beside the pin.There are, I think, 5 hole positions possible in a pin, so you may have to take a number of locks apart to get enough pins with the same pattern to make up the combination that you wish to use.When you have, say, 4 identical sets of 5 pins each you can reinsert these into the lock barrels in the same order and your doors, trunk and cubby box will all use the same key.This should cover everything you have to know about making your own keys and patterning your locks.

 

L

 

[lordleonusa]

And here is the photo of my FS899

 

Are there any locksmiths reading this?

 

L

[triumphlux]

Ah, this is quite a different 'modifying' thread, no engines, gearboxes, diffs or suspesnion .... BUT DOOR LOCKS  ;D

 

Must say is quite interesting especially that you gave me the idea the you can put a lock on the passenger door. Somehow I never really realised that it would be quite simple. And as I have LHD and RHD parts I could do it without a problem.

 

I should have a look have many old locks I have and ask my used parts supplier .... but will take a few days.

[Gerard]

I never suspected this!

 

Brilliant! I also am fed up of having a separate key for the door, boot, bonnet, fuel cap, ignition, glove box and another I haven't found a hole for yet...

 

That said, I reckon I could start the car on any of my keys, or even a 10 Euro note...  :

[lordleonusa]

I am still working on this project, but it looks like there are only three different types of brass pins, but they get their key configurations by their different arrangements.

 

As to 'original'

 

The door lock(s) are supposed to match the ignition lock, and the Wilmot Breeden Key is supposed to have a round head.

 

The Boot & Cubby hole locks are also supposed to match one another, but have an oblong-headed WB key.

(they should be different from the door/ignition key)

 

And that's it.

 

Regards

 

L

  

[lordleonusa]

Project over & most successful...at no cost to me! ;D

except for $7.99 for a small pair of needle nosed pliers with a serrated grip on the tips.

 

I located all my spare locks, and the boot locks turned out to be the easiest to take apart, with the original dashboard mounted ignition lock not too far behind.

 

Cubby Hole/Glove compartment are best avoided, as the stainless steel front cover is too easily damaged, (no I did not).

 

Door & Bonnet Locks also easy to take apart.

 

If you look carefully at your keys, you can fairly accurately surmise which pins will be found in the locks before you take them apart!

 

I made copious measurements & notes about the three brass pin sizes and their order in all the locks I took apart.

 

That enabled me to re-key my passenger door lock to match my driver's door lock.

 

It also enabled me to re-key my boot lock to match my cubby hole lock.

 

Originally, the earlier cars fitted with FS keys had the number stamped on the front of the lock cover, but the later ones after about mid-1967 did not. The numbers are on the back of the lock.

 

There are only 80 combinations of brass pins used on the FS-range, ie: FS876 to FS955.

 

The cars originally came with only two keys.

 

One, with a round head for the driver's door & ignition, and the other with an oblong head for the boot & cubby hole.

 

I am now at the point where my two doors both have locks, with the same number, (my ignition is one of the bigger keys from the GT6-3 with locking steering column), my boot lock matches the cubby hole, and my two bonnet locks have a third number.

 

I have also made up a spare original dashboard mounted Vitesse Ignition lock with the same number as the door locks, just in case.

 

I am also considering re-keying my bonnet locks to match the door locks also, and I have just enough spare brass pins to do so.

 

What I need now, is a pair of original Wilmot Breeden keys with round heads FS896.

 

and a pair of original Wilmot Breeden keys with oblong heads FS915.

 

Does anyone have any spares like those?

 

Best Regards

 

Léon

[triumphlux]

Congratulations Leon for sorting your locks out and for this great technical article  

[lordleonusa]

Thanks JC

 

Here is a final photo that clarifys most of what I have said above.

 

L

 

[logicaluk]

any chance of the pics being recovered/reuploaded for this thread?

some how to strip the locks down info would be very useful then it could be moved to the technical article section.

Dan

[GT6MK3]

any chance of the pics being recovered/reuploaded for this thread?

 

Certainly...

 

C.

[logicaluk]

thanks.

Dan

[KeyGuy]

I am in the USA, and can cut keys to code for both early American and British (Volvo and VW's). I bought out a Triumph dealership back in 1976. Along with

some NOS parts, 2 dealership signs, and key cutting equipment. The Curtis Key company had salesman back in the 1960's go around to the foreign car

dealership to sell them a Curtisn NO 14 key cutter and American key blanks to cut to code. When I purchase a British car back in 1965, the dealership

had a wall of cut wilmot breeden keys in the parts department. When you lost your key, key code was on the face of the ignition switch. Now, did not

have to stock all the different key codes, could just cut to code. I can re-key lock insert for ignition switch, glove box lock, door locks and boot locks.

To make the job for present car owners, can give you the wafer/pins location for specific key codes. You may just have to re-arrange the wafers/pins

as per the data above. Pete Groh, Ellicott City MD USA

[Bill Garman]

I live in Mattoon ILLinois U.S.A. I own two Nash Metropolitans, and I would like to have my locks match. Are new pin sets available, so that I can re-key my locks?

I have locks on both doors, Ignition,Glove box, rear seat, (folds down for access to boot), and lock for outside latch for boot. Early Metropolitans did not have an outter access door to the boot.

Bill Garman

[KeyGuy]

Since my last post on the wafer's, re-keying the locks learned per Peter Weston tha the FNR, FA, FP and FS all used the

same wafer's with NO 1, being no cut on the key, NO 2, small cut and NO 3, big cut. If you can see a key code on the

face of the ignition switch lock insert or find the number on the lock housing.

Some key code & the number range:

* MRN 01 through MRN 50

* FNR 01 through FRN 25

* FA 501 through FA 625

* FP 626 through FP 750

* FS 876 through FS 955

 

On the MRN keys, the early GM cars used the same key blank BL 10 or BL 11

as a duplicate key for this series. Assume the wafer will be the same.

 

Pete Groh (KeyGuy) Ellicott City MD USA