Damper pulley

[JohnD]

Damper pulleys are essential for both four and six cylinder Triumph engines, but the original ones are getting old. Very old.

 

ATI in the US make damper pulleys -at about £250 (that's pounds, not dollars) each.

 

Some modern cars use them - eg Land Rover, Audi, VW, BMW, and those can cost a quarter of that price.   Are any of those a straightforward mod to fit to a Triumph six?

 

John

[GT6Steve]

John, do you mean like this?

 

 

Give me a shout on the side and I'll share the details if you can keep them close to your chest... 8)

 

Ooh wait, I misread.  You don't want ATI.  Never mind.

[GT]

Damper pulleys are essential for both four and six cylinder Triumph engines, but the original ones are getting old.

 

WRONG!

 

Damper pulleys are only needed for harmonic damping of long "rubber" cranks.

4 cylinder engines DON'T need them.

 

There may be some doubt whether a STEEL 6 cylinder crankshaft would need a damper.

In fact it could function without, or at least with only a very small one, depending on the stroke.

 

 

[JohnD]

Thanks, Steve for the offer, and thanks, GT for the correction.

 

Yes, or rather, No, $400ish for a damper is outside my budget, not when I can see dampers from the above manufacturers on sale on eBay for a tenth of that.  If no one knows if any can be fitted - I'll go and find out!

 

John

[James]

I thought dampers have to be precisely tuned to the engine to be of any use?

[GT6 Mike]

I thought dampers have to be precisely tuned to the engine to be of any use?

 

They are tuned for specific applications,

 

[JohnD]

Anything has to be better than one with rotted rubber, that turns on the inner hub.

[JohnD]

Anything has to be better than one with rotted rubber, that turns on the inner hub.

ATi don't quote one for any Triumph after TR4.

AND, they charge $250 to 'custom' a damper for your car, on top of the $250 for the damper.

There has to be a cheaper way.

GT?  Business opportunity?

 

John

[SteveA]

Another company in the USA, who may be able to help you. http://www.damperdudes.net/

 

Someone on a US Triumph site had his done there back in April for $115 including return shipping.

[JohnD]

Thanks, Steve, I'll ask them.

John

[GT]

I would have thought there were still loads of them about.

 

I never had any difficulty finding a NOS/good s/h one. The biggest problem were always the MASSIVE 2.5L ones like on the TR5/6/2.5Pi, as they get well thrashed out.

The small ones like they had on the 2000/GT6/Vitesse were always 2 a penny.

[toofast2race]

Yes tricky to set the timing when they have slipped by 30 degrees  :-/  My current one is only 1 deg out so probably a goodun   . Its worth centre punching or permanently marking the inner and outer once checked so you can make a quick visual that it isn't self destructing. 8)

[GT]

V12 jags are favourite for that!

 

A REAL BIG heavy damper!

I'll never forget the German guys who were incapable of tuning an HE some years back....crying tears of HC they were!!!!

It was doing about 5mpg!

I asked. What did they set the timing too?

 

Idiots said....to the timing marks of course!!  : PERFECT!   :'(

 

No suprise it was running about 15deg ATDC static.....you bet a damper is gonna get knacked when you have FOUR timing belts pulling on it!!!

[JohnD]

The Kas Kastner solution is to drill a small hole radially intothe V of the pulley.

Right down through the rubber to the inner hub.

Then slip a slightly smaller drill into the hole as a check.

If later on you can't slip tjhe drill in - the outer has shifted and the pulley is scrap.

 

Steve, Ron Slater @ DamperDudes has given me the name of Bob Jones (?Oregon?) for whom he made some dampers a short hwile ago.

Now I'm seeking Bob's email address!

John

[lordleonusa]

I've not heard of him, but then Oregon is twice the size of the UK!

 

Let me know what you find out coz one day, I will no doubt need a damper.

 

L

 

Oregon, bottom left corner.

[booley]

Richard Good of www.goodparts.com sells a kit for the TR6 using an ATI damper

Steve, is your approach less costly than the goodparts kit?

[GT6Steve]

That price looks pretty good considering it's a complete kit.  I paid around $450 for my ATI but remenmber I already had a Gilmer belt water pump drive at that point.  

 

From everything I've seen of Mr. Good his stuff seems genuine and well thought out.  I'd have no qualms buying that kit for a TR6 and most certainly could make it work on a GT6.

[Nick Jones]

Not really answering you question John, but interesting reading nevertheless and clearly explains the reasons why they are needed (not sure about the valve train bit tho?)

 

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/dampers.pdf

 

The rest of his site is interesting too.

 

I'm sure I've seen a lengthy thread on this before somewhere (can't find it now >) which was advocating a damper originally intended for a Ford V8 or SBC.  There was also talk of sand (or shot) filled dampers...

 

Nick

[JohnD]

Thanks for that, Nick.

It reminded me of critical damping, natural and harmonic frequencies.  Maybe I ought to see one of these VW dampers first - it could be (from pics) a lot smaller that the Triumph one, and so according to that article good sense, not as useful/effective.

 

Perhaps I should aim for one of these: http://www.metaldyne.co.uk/viscous_damper_repair.html

 

JOhn

[Nick Jones]

Yes, I found the Metadyne site too...... nice kit but......$$$$$

 

My Audi I5 2.5 TDI has a thumping great damper on it.  Scary attachment method with very short crank nose, vestigial diagonal key and MASSIVE bolt torque (200lb/ft + 270º).  I could only get 180º even with a 6' bar.... it's REALLY tight!

 

Nick

[booley]

From everything I've seen of Mr. Good his stuff seems genuine and well thought out.  I'd have no qualms buying that kit for a TR6 and most certainly could make it work on a GT6.

 

I met Mr. Good at a Northeast Triumph meet a few years ago, he seemed very knowledgable was pleasant to talk with. Alot of folks use his triple carb setup (cheaper than webers)

 

Steve, aren't gt6 and tr6 dampers different because of the tr's longer stroke?

 

 

[GT6Steve]

Not on the US spec cars.  ;D

 

 

[michaeljf]

Hello,I have been looking into "harmonic dampers"and amongst others came across an article about Jon Wood in an old copy of Triumph World which was quite interesting.He has made what appears to be quite a clever crank damper. I am in the process of rebuilding a TR6 engine for some track events/road use so am interested in his damper.regards,Michael. 

[Nick Jones]

Hi Michael,

Welcome. Not sure where in Oz you are but hopefully Andy Thompson will chime in. He’s Perth based and a serial offender in tuning 6 cyl Triumphs.

Will take a pretty fierce 2.5 to make full use of 2” carbs 

[JohnD]

Michaeljf,

What is it you want to know about dampers?

John