Barrys Rear-End, oh -er.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Will be materialising here bit by bit.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

The courier just brought me a nice NOS driveshaft and CV. Sadly it's twice as long as a metro one? Looks like it's from a lorry.

 

Zzzzzz...No doubt out of pocket by the time its returned etc.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

For suspension ya needs wishbones dun ya.

 

They be made from parts.

 

http://www.superflex.co.uk/universal.php

 

You can buy useful bits for making wishbones from Superflex, such as various sized metal bush housings to weld onto wishbones plus a few different bush options.

 

Saves the need to machine your own.

SPF1276S

http://www.superflex.co.uk/results.php?pageNum_Recordset1=1&maker=59&man_name=Universal&searchmodel=344

 

Some 'ard bushes.

SPF1276-95

http://www.superflex.co.uk/results.php?pageNum_Recordset1=1&maker=59&man_name=Universal&searchmodel=344

 

I already got some 1/2" rose joints I am hoping they can be used on the MGF upright. If not, well I'll be needing to get some different ones.

 

If possible I'd like to make the wishbones from flattened tube like the ones shown. Cause its less hassle notching the ends compared to round stuff,

 

They will use the hardest superflex bushes on the chassis end and a mix of rose and bushes on the upright. I don't want rosejoints on the inboard links on anything bar the shock absorbers cause the rattle is annoying.

 

Wanting to use the entire MG TF upright including caliper and brakes need to first get one and see if it fits inside my wheels etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DaveNotSoSideways]

The top ball joint on the MGF/MG TF upright screws into the upright, big threaded section on it, I don't want that fixed parameter.

 

My plan is to machine down the actual ball part of that screw in joint then if possible reuse the threaded piece and add a fitting to it via bolting, screwing welding. This fitting will mate to a single 1/2" rose joint coming off the top wishbone.

 

This allows me to shim the distance between the upright and wishbone joint to fine tune camber gains etc.

 

The bottom end of the upright is easy enough, the MG TF has level holes in the lower flanges so you can easily mate it to a wishbone.

 

I have this idea about having remote shocks on pushrods  with a rocker but with a solid H and upper A wishbones having off centre loads on the suspension shouldnt effect/flex it negatively as with the normal roto lay out with a radius arm and off centre damper. So I'll play that by ear.

 

I won't be using a radius arm.

 

Camber/Toe all set on the outboard joints on the upright.

 

Lot of arsin about to do before anything more than flirtation happens.

[GT6 Mike]

Dave, fairly sure MGF's have / had a 14" steel montego / maestro spare wheel so should fit with your wheels.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Cheers Mike. I am hoping nothing protrudes out from the handbrake mech etc.

 

---------

 

I've got a feeling some new wheels would be useful sometime I'd rather 13" but..., I'd want to build the ability to run a 7" wide rim with a 205 tyre if pos.....

 

Got some modded stock uprights here too, either could be used, but the cheap and hassle free job of lumping on the entire MGF/TF unit has to be a winner!

 

 

 

 

 

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Not sure who said the MGTF has level holes in the lower flanges that you would bolt a wishbone to, they don't, both the MGF and the MGTF have uneven hole positions, higher/lower in relation to eachother.

 

I'd rather them to have been level. Need to sit down and look at what if any difference this will make if using a solid H arm lower wishbone.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

One lower hole takes M12 x1.5 bolt the other is tapered to take a balljoint, as the MGF has a floating rear trackbar.

 

Makes using the MGF upright a minor pain in the arse, uneven outer pickup height and tapered hole. I'll post picks later.

 

There is plenty of meat to mill off the lower flanges and drill and tap some holes and bolt on something to add a wishbone to. Same on the top, the entire balljoint housing could be machined off there happens to be two tapped M10 holes in the top of the upright, ideal for adding a bracket onto.

 

Going to look at other Rovers with disc brakes.

[Nick Jones]

Hmmm,  I've seen several people say that the TF VLs have the lower holes in line.  I've never seen any that were in line but all the ones I've had have been from older cars.  Are you sure they are TF ones? Suppose you could retain the MGF lower location arrangements?  Not as well located as a proper wishbone though.

 

Other Rovers (except R100/Maestro/Montego) have different wheelnut PCD but I guess you know that.

 

Nick

[DaveNotSoSideways]

I've looked at loads of pics on ebay all have the unequal locations, even new ones for TF only. I reckon they are all the same.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nick Jones]

Got some non-TF ones in the garage.  From memory I don't think they have the threaded boss on the back or the machining with two tapped holes 2/3 way up on the side.

 

PITA about the hole position....

 

Nick

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Same bottom holes I mean.

 

Might be a solution there somewhere.  Don't want to get to into it it right now

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Did a bit of messing today.

 

You can see the current holes are offset in both planes.

 

Interesting when you add rod-ends and clamp them up, turn the upright obviously it twists the rod-ends around Axis of the bolts makes the joints swivel.

 

Maths isnt my thing but I can play with stuff

 

I noted that if you align the central axis/centre points of the rose joints perfectly in height from the bench with both rose joints standing perfectly vertica you get nice smooth movementl, obviously then the upright is twisted but will move through 90deg without any major steering or movement away from a single axis Useless info.

 

I think I have a solution which will come next : )

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Offset here too making these points useless for any fixed outer joints.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Any thoughts on this?

 

What I believe will enable me to use the upright would be to bore another hole through the flange below the other one that isn't any use, there is plenty of room/meat there.  I can lay a shallower angle than that shown on the picture.

 

I can then parallel bore this new hole dead on 90deg to the HUB axis/bearing and give the upright a new swivel position with no bumpsteer at dead on 90dead to the wishbone? The upright will be laid at a slight angle; like a dummy castor angle on the front. but that's going to make a shread of difference is it? Provided i make the new axis inline with the hub so its all square it should work right?!

 

What I would need to do is to cut a recess a few mm deep into the flanges on the outside where the rosejoints will go, this recess would be cut inline with the longbolt, into the recess would be fitted small top-hat spacers to get the joints to sit on the steep angle of the flange properly and make it all nice and neat.

 

Inbetween the two flanges I'd machine the oneside slightly so a metal bar or box piece with two threaded bores in each end could be accurately fitted between them, you'd bolt down the rose joints/hardware through the upright flanges and into a new bar spanning between the flanges. this divides load on the flanges, enables super quick toe changes etc.

 

Any thoughts?

 

That's about the only way. The fact there is a taper hole on one end doesnt matter either once its all together the small recess top-hats take care of outer location.

 

 

[DaveNotSoSideways]

I lined that all up exactly as it would be on the car if I machined it and the spirit level stays effectively dead flat through 90deg of movement, bearing in mind that there will be about 2deg of movement in bump I can't really detect any steering of the hub.

[GT6 Nick]

I think I see where you're going with these uprights. Are you using them rather than rotoflex uprights because of weight? I like the way you're doing your thinking with your hands - it's much easier to see how things move than read about it or describe!

 

An alternative, if you decide you can't get the optimum solution from adapting factory components, would be to fabricate uprights from sheet metal with bearing carriers locating the hub bearings and brakes. That way you could alter the spacing between the lower wishbone arms (wider = more control of bump steer?) and height between the arm at the bottom and spring at the top (or are you going to coil-overs?).

 

Enuf from an armchair engineer  8)  keep up the good work!

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Basically just want to dump on the entire corner from the MGF, attach the handbrake cable and brake lines fit and forget...Cheap parts, reliable !

 

Weight is about the same as a bored out Roto upright.

 

I can take out that top ball joint mill off the housing if needed and make any type of fitting I want to join the top wishbone, at any position, you can bolt a bracket to the upright leaving tons of options.

 

The position of the top and lower pivots isnt vastly different from the roto upright really.

 

Lot of work to do on it. Indeed geo needs consideration. I have totally free options for upper and lower wishbone locations anyway.

 

Coil overs yes, and top wishbones...ideally pushrod shocks.

[Nick Jones]

Have you had a look at the layout of the lower links on an MGF or a MGF TF (they are quite different) and considered adapting them to suit?

 

You've seen pics of Jon Binningtons solution I think?

 

Nick

[DaveNotSoSideways]

All the MG stuff is useless I reckon.

 

I need a solid H arm on the bottom, all it needs is an upright on the end.

 

MGF/TF has a really complex arrangement with the top link being single and the shock/hydrogas unit running off the top wishbone, a radius arm and single frontal pivot on lower wishbone / uses a trackbar on the rear lower link, etc similar to roto in a sick kind of way. I cant be doing with the geometry and headache of that lot of mess.

 

Nice widely spaced bottom H wishbone is what I need, zero compliance, as wide as the straight part to the end of the chassis after it flutes out infront of the diff. A arm added at the top.

 

Similar to Jango's setup.

 

Be interesting starting with nothing. I don't want a radius arm, or a reverse A arm on the bottom, like the roto/binningtons. The upright has to be joined to a proper solid H. I can stick on a shocker or pushrod in lots of places off a decent wishbone.

 

I think I need a giant sheet of paper next.

 

Thinking this is a long job No worries making top banana wishbones from some nice flat sided oval steel wishbone tube. Need to get busy on paper and get some really well aligned brackets on the chassis The rest should work out from 1 place I reckon. Should end up with the best aligned part of the car.

 

The image shows a few options for a toplink. one being use the balljoint and simply add a balljoint taper into a fitting on the top wishbone, no adjustment on that though. You can mill that joint housing off  completely and make a T bracket from some solid bolt it to the top then run the wishbone rosejoint on it. Do any position you want or multiples. Or fit a fat stud into that massive balljoint housing after attempting to cut it down and drill it/tap thread.

[Jango]

Its all looking good to me, we went for the smallist angle change on the wheel as it moves up and down.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Here is Binningtons interesting "device".

 

I don't intend to copy it

[gt5r]

All the MG stuff is useless I reckon.

 

I need a solid H arm on the bottom, all it needs is an upright on the end.

 

MGF/TF has a really complex arrangement with the top link being single and the shock/hydrogas unit running off the top wishbone, a radius arm and single frontal pivot on lower wishbone / uses a trackbar on the rear lower link, etc similar to roto in a sick kind of way. I cant be doing with the geometry and headache of that lot of mess.

 

Nice widely spaced bottom H wishbone is what I need, zero compliance, as wide as the straight part to the end of the chassis after it flutes out infront of the diff. A arm added at the top.

 

Similar to Jango's setup.

 

Be interesting starting with nothing. I don't want a radius arm, or a reverse A arm on the bottom, like the roto/binningtons. The upright has to be joined to a proper solid H. I can stick on a shocker or pushrod in lots of places off a decent wishbone.

 

I think I need a giant sheet of paper next.

 

Thinking this is a long job No worries making top banana wishbones from some nice flat sided oval steel wishbone tube. Need to get busy on paper and get some really well aligned brackets on the chassis The rest should work out from 1 place I reckon. Should end up with the best aligned part of the car.

 

The image shows a few options for a toplink. one being use the balljoint and simply add a balljoint taper into a fitting on the top wishbone, no adjustment on that though. You can mill that joint housing off  completely and make a T bracket from some solid bolt it to the top then run the wishbone rosejoint on it. Do any position you want or multiples. Or fit a fat stud into that massive balljoint housing after attempting to cut it down and drill it/tap thread.

 

 

came to the same conculsion - bin it - went through the same hoops - westfield/locost - chop arms down to suit track - custom inner pick ups

 

Serria driveshaft & diff - cheap as chips - Jango followed with his awsome beskope rear end - my method is just as effective but avoids major chassis rework and 1/8 of the price tag

[DaveNotSoSideways]

I think JD just bolted the rosejoints to the stock holes (I covered this)...I don't even want to consider the wear on the joints as they want to tear out from the wishbone, the fact they will wear out in 10seconds will be its only saving grace? Or zero suspension movement might help.

[DaveNotSoSideways]

Yes Mark, just wang the MGF stuff on a westfield type wishbone setup but make my own wishbones.

 

I can leave the diff job this way and do it in stages. I can use one of the many various length rover shafts or the metro one to mate to my remaining lorbo/triumph adaptors and run the stock diff till the next phase.

 

Then I will need some other driveshafts.