RBR...Red Baron Rebuild

[Steve 13-60]

Oil rings for trunnion bushes just arrived and are a perfect fit.bsize is 32mm I/D & 2mm cross section. £2.99 for a pack of 10 delivered.

With no grease points on these bushes I am assuming they were dry assembled at the factory. I'll grease them though and once every year or 2 take them to bits, clean and reassemble.

[Nick Jones]

Suggest assembling with silicone grease between sleeve and nylon and plenty of antiseize on the bolt. 
Note that a common problem with these is that once the plastic bushes are pressed into the trunnion housing, the bore closes up and the sleeves are then really tight when they should only be snug. This is (IMHO) a bigger problem at the front as a tight pivot here puts bending loads into the vertical link and contributes to their catastrophic failure.

[Steve 13-60]

Cheers Nick, I'll adjust the sleeve so it's a snug fit on assembly. Just took me an hour to get the bearing carrier off the upright then get the old bushes out. Was thinking it's a rubbish design as it was all seized solid. But I reckon that was the original set. So it can be forgiven I suppose, wasn't really designed to last 50 years eh!

Now to remove the diff assy, can then start cleaning and repainting the chassis.

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, Steve 13-60 said:

Just took me an hour to get the bearing carrier off the upright then get the old bushes out. Was thinking it's a rubbish design as it was all seized solid

An hour is good going!  It’s mainly a cheap, no-maintenance (no greasing) design and certainly wasn’t intended to do 50+ years.  I haven’t messed with one for years (though roto setup is worse really) and haven’t missed it. 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

5 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Note that a common problem with these is that once the plastic bushes are pressed into the trunnion housing, the bore closes up and the sleeves are then really tight when they should only be snug. This is (IMHO) a bigger problem at the front as a tight pivot here puts bending loads into the vertical link and contributes to their catastrophic failure

I have an adjustable reamer to get the plastic bushes to size after pressing in

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

I have an adjustable reamer to get the plastic bushes to size after pressing in

That’s the perfect solution 

[Steve 13-60]

Bugger, today I started to rebuild the rear drive shafts.

First thing, I stall the new UJs.....except they don't frigging fit! Assembled they are too long to get the circlips in. Anyone got any suggestions? I did but them off eBay, perhaps there's a better supplier?

[Steve 13-60]

Actually, belay that above, just dug out the old one from the bin and measured it, virtually the same.....so why can't I get the second circlip to fit?

I've dismantled it to check all the rollers are in place....and they are....strange..

[Nick Jones]

Circlip thickness the same? That’s had me in the past.

Handy to have a selection of circlip thicknesses as these do want to be tight across the cups, otherwise they click.

[Steve 13-60]

Spot on Nick, I re-used the old ones and it went together.

Bearings all fitted now too.....can't start re-assembling tomorrow.

But the next issue is the rear spring. I've stripped it and as expected the buttons were well buggered. Easy enough to fit new ones but I guessing that will affect the rude height....it was fine as it was....expecting lots of positive camber.....but can always stick a spacer in if need be.

[Steve 13-60]

Bugger..fitted both UJs then decided to polish the shaft at the bearing end.....one looks like the needle roller had seized and spun on the shaft.....new shaft needed.

[Nick Jones]

That’s disappointing 

[Steve 13-60]

Spotted these on eBay......MK4 spit. Would they be the longer drive shafts?

But if you fit longer drive shafts then do you need longer trailing arms to suit or just more shims?

[Nick Jones]

I think they are short shafts. The seller is “Tavistock Steve” who does know his Triumphs very well and the fact he’s describing them as Herald and Spit 1-4 suggests short. The shape of UJ trunnion also suggests short as does the direct fitted flexihose. If in doubt, ping him a messsge.

[Steve 13-60]

Thanks Nick, just reading up about swing springs, which apparently needs the longer shafts to work properly.

But some folk say they are only good for carrying 2 people in a Herald.....so still giving it some thought. Although there will only ever be me and wifey in it.

Decisions, decisions eh.

 

[Steve 13-60]

Oh yeah..... retirement didn't last long!

I got a contract at RollsRoyce for a year starting 13th Jan. Doing repair/salvage schemes for Trent 1000 engines.

Don't really need the dosh but if I go back to work means I can pay someone to build the garage extension instead of me breaking me back and paying for it from me savings.

Easier to attend RR and let someone else do the real work!

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, Steve 13-60 said:

Thanks Nick, just reading up about swing springs, which apparently needs the longer shafts to work properly.

But some folk say they are only good for carrying 2 people in a Herald.....so still giving it some thought. Although there will only ever be me and wifey in it.

No personal experience on this. I just ran my Herald low, with a stiff, fixed spring and the widest wheels that would go in the arches (6J, ET13 ish).

I’m not sure why the swing spring would need the longer shafts. Short shafts and wide wheels are pretty much the same.

The problem with the swing springs and Heralds is that I don’t think anyone has every properly redesigned and manufactured/supplied the spring for Herald/Vitesse. This means the highest rated available (ever, today even more questionable) is for late Mk3 GT6.

I used to fling my Herald around the lanes and provided you don’t do anything daft like brake hard mid-corner it was fine. 

[Mark]

I ran a mk3 Spit with short shafts, swing spring and a 1" lowering block, 175 70 tyres on 51/2" steels for years. It  handled very well and never notice any problems. Not to say it wouldn't have worked better with the longer shafts, and it does make me wonder why Triumph lengthend the shafts on the later swing spring cars. It may have been to fill the arches on the mk4 design? I've felt more comfortable fitting wide wheels and tyres on the shorter shafts, but then again don't know if the longer shafts are more prone to snapping than the shorter versions. 

[JohnD]

It's not what it is, it's how you drive it!

The longer half shafts push the wheels into more negative camber.   If that's what you need to counter excessive cornering forces, fine.    If not, also fine!

John

[Steve 13-60]

Thanks all for the comments, I'll stick with the standard configuration then. It's not that I'll be driving it fast anyway, I just like to tinker!

I've bought the above posted drive shaft assemblies, but will have to wait for them to arrive so won't be getting it back on 4 wheels this side of the new year.

[Steve 13-60]

Forgot to say, the Sellar of the blue bushes sent me some old stock black ones that were far better, even the rubber O rings fitted.....but he didn't have the metal tubes.

I fitted them last night and seem to be a good fit, the metal tubes are a nice snug fit.

[Steve 13-60]

The spring buttons arrived today so just fitted them. I wet assembled the leafs with a liberal coating of grease between. I intend to wrap it with some exhaust wrap I found in my stores, save me getting covered in grease when working on the rest of the suspension. Or, I may use Denso tape, cos I have some of that too.....but that is greasy on the outside also.

I measured the height of the spring assy before (190mm) and after (205mm) so I guess the car will sit higher....which is fine cos I don't like lowered cars....throw back to my youth rallying minis.....stick 3 washers between the trumpets to raise it up!

But will I now get the dreaded positive camber? Won't know till the whole car is re-assembled. But really don't want to fit lowering blocks. If it does go positive, has anyone played with adding spacers between the diff and drive shafts? Effectively creating longer drive shafts?

[Steve 13-60]

Before painting the chassis I folded up some sheet steel and welded them into the side chassis rails, now they are a box section. Must say it seems to have stiffened up those areas nicely.

[Nick Jones]

48 minutes ago, Steve 13-60 said:

But will I now get the dreaded positive camber? Won't know till the whole car is re-assembled. But really don't want to fit lowering blocks. If it does go positive, has anyone played with adding spacers between the diff and drive shafts? Effectively creating longer drive shafts?

Depends how low/negative it was before. 15mm isn’t much and it’ll likely settle some.

Spacers…. Not tried it myself (gone the wide wheels /more offset wheel approach) but I have seen it done, both on swing axle and roto. Dunno much about the swing axle one -was on a partly dismantled Spitfire 3. The roto one was part of a package of measures on Eddie Wilkins’ unreasonably rapid racing Spitfire.

[Nick Jones]

On 12/15/2024 at 5:51 PM, Steve 13-60 said:

I got a contract at RollsRoyce for a year starting 13th Jan. Doing repair/salvage schemes for Trent 1000 engines.

Ah…. Plenty of work there it seems. Not the most trouble-free of RRs efforts unfortunately.