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Triumph GT6 Mk2


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I think we might be over engineering the solution for a problem that might not exist!. ;) 

As Clive said keep it simple just fit one pump, clean tank, new hoses and filter(s) and get that working properly,  it it cant keep up with maximum demand then look at resizing the pump for max power if that turns out to be an issue....


 

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1 hour ago, mpbarrett said:

I think we might be over engineering the solution for a problem that might not exist!. ;) 

Spoilsport :tongue:

But yeah, that's essentially what I plan to do.

I would like to replace the Facet sometime, it's bloody noisy but that's a long term problem. Firstly I want to get her reliable and MOT'd.

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38 minutes ago, thebrookster said:

it's bloody noisy

Yes, that’s one reason I dislike them…. That and randomly stopping working.

Tank outlet area needs to be checked carefully and cleaned. It’s small to begin with and seems to collect crud….

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Apart from old and perished engine mounted diaphragm pumps I've never been brought to a halt by pump failure. Rusty tanks, blocked filters, perished hoses, broken electrical connections, sh1t PO wiring installations, etc yes but never a pump.

Spare pumps seem to me rather like spare coils.

Adds cost, weight and rather like the tow strap on the front of a slammed Nova makes it look 'race'.

And in 99.99% of the time is not the part that brings you to a halt.

Spare bits that aren't used but are carried around in cars getting bumped and shaken and filled with fluff are generally as just as likely to fail as the part that is in use. Particularly if you don't periodically inspect/test them.

And the complexity involved in the additional plumbing/wiring just adds to the odds of failure to proceed.

The more valves, switches, connections, etc you add, the more there is to break, block, wear out.

That along with a less than 'proper' (neat  tidy and fit for purpose) installation.

Just think of all the other single point failure modes on the car that you don't habitually hump around 'just in case'. Spare engine earth cable anyone?

Keep it simple. Get a reliable and adequately sized pump, make a good job of the installation of cables, hoses etc. And fit a filter that you can see and change easily. 

On my tuned 2.5L Spitfire I have a single Facet red top pump. Happily run for 100k miles or so, all over the Continent and for sprints, hillclimbs and road rallies. No issues with the pump. Ever. Filters yes, pump no.

The 125hp 1300 Spit uses a single solid state Facet. Again never had a problem.

You are going for the Lunar Lander Ascent Module here. Start with the basics, clean everything out, including the carbs, and only then try to re-create the Space Shuttle fuel system. 

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I suppose as its almost a positive displacement pump, if we measure the current and detect the peak current pulses and measure the period between pulses then we can calculate the flowrate and see if it reaches a plateau (max operating frequency) when thrashing the car as hard as possible.
Then we can  decide if he needs a new pump or multiple pumps....
Time to get my coat.... :) 

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Quick binge of photos.

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Start of the fuel coming out the tank. It did clear up pretty quickly however, so could be a lot worse.

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As said, the tank was actually in pretty good condition, at least a lot better than I originally expected.IMG20241009093406.thumb.jpg.696b8f55ad12b48b49e7dec023b9af1f.jpg

Also gained a small distraction. New (to us) dog, 6 years old and an ex agility champ! Finally starting to settle, including the belly which wasn't so happy as the dog about a change of circs, change of routine and a change of food lol

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And current progress, tank cleaned and sealed inside, just got to wait another 2 days for the sealer to cure. So I cleaned, rust converted and primer'd the outside. Not the bestest job, I'm only interested in making it functional lol, it hides beneath boot panels!

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Right, well I have found out why I am having issues with buying the correct fuel hose!

I had checked the hoses in the engine bay, which are all 1/4", hence why I purchased this size. However, I then found out (confirmed by Nick) that the stuff at the back is 5/16".

What appears to have happened is the SU carbs want 1/4". Which I have replaced. The metal fuel pipe around the bulkhead (which would originally have gone to the mechanical pump) is also 1/4".

However the pipe from the tank is 5/16"! I suspect that when the mechanical pump was fitted it had 5/16" to it, and possibly a 1/4" barb on the outlet. However, what I have is a 1/4" hose somehow shoved over a 5/16" metal pipe to make the change.

So that's another adapter (and order) I need to make :sad:

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Ah. Yes. That is the case Phil.

The original mechanical pump had a short 5/16" 'tail' of steel pipe on the inlet side to which was attached the hose joining it to the pipe along the chassis rail.

As you say, the 1/4" pipe round the front of the engine connected directly to the pump outlet without any hose. Not the greatest photo but this is the original arrangement (Mk1 but Mk2 pump arrangement was identical), complete with glass topped pump

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Edited by Escadrille Ecosse
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What about changing the route of the pump and taking it up and around the bulkhead, I have never liked the front of the engine location, two reasons, heat and possibility of pipe falling on fan belt. 

I am so pleased this car is still around.

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Meant to say, beware of supposed fuel pumps that look like Hucos, I had one on my GT6 and have encountered lots of issues, I have recently fitted a Facet and all is well. 

I believe Huco were bought by Hitachi in the last year or so and the minimum order quantity was changed, this has resulted in few dealers selling them as they fear they will not sell enough to make them a viable stock item.  

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2 hours ago, TimBancroft said:

What about changing the route of the pump and taking it up and around the bulkhead, I have never liked the front of the engine location, two reasons, heat and possibility of pipe falling on fan belt. 

It already is :biggrin:

2 hours ago, TimBancroft said:

I am so pleased this car is still around.

Not as chuffed as I am to own it!

My Huco has been sat in the shed for several years, I bought it as a backup for the 2000, my original died (user error) so I bought 2 when I replaced it.

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Well, everything is replaced and reinstalled:

New fuel hoses

Tank cleaned/sealed

New fuel filter (I went with the Sytec Pro825 short filter, with spare elements)

Clutch line replaced with Goodridge Hose

Spark plugs replaced, old plugs were WR7DC (single electrode), new plugs are W7DTC (triple electrode).

I'm interested in thoughts regarding the old plugs. Looks to me like the rear carb is running a tad rich? I do have an Innovate Lambda sensor that came from Alan's stash via Roger, so I need to think about getting that fitted.

Next task is to arrange new tyres and pick up some fresh fuel though.

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If it's been sat for a while, then driven with questionable fuel quality and pump pressure, then I'd not read too much into the sparkplugs just yet.  My saga on my carburetors suggests that even a mild gumming up from a bit of ethanol in the fuel based corrosion or just gunk can give odd readings, so I'd recommend driving it with the fuel system sorted before you start adjusting anything too much.  Having said that it's probably worth whipping the dashpots off to check the oil level, and have a look at where the fuel level sits in the jets to check overall height and that it's the same in both.

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Agree with Nick that the rear carb looks a bit rich, but I would certainly consider it worth running it a bit before adjusting anything.

I run my Mk2 with a Huco sucker and fuel line routed across the bulkhead.

I been using Bosch W7DTCs for quite a while now (originally on Nicks recommendation) and find them very good. I have a Pertronix ignition module a 6 ohm 'flame thrower' coil.

My plugs after recent long trip. Not pulled directly after running but near enough.

Ian

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Well, one step forwards, and two back it appears!

All the relevant bits fitted, 20l of fresh fuel (super), and it will not start!

I checked the floats, they had fuel. But more fettling, and it seems I have fuel coming out the rear carb. So looked at fuel levels, and all squewwiff. Got that roughly sorted, though I will order some new (adjustable) floats etc tomorrow.

However, I had also fitted the new spark plugs, so pulled them out again and fitted the old ones. Still nothing. Whilst looking the dizzy I saw that the clamp was loose! So now I need to retime that.

I'll wait for the carb bits to arrive, and move forwards from there, and set the timing again tomorrow. I'll also give the pancake filters (K&N) a clean as they look pretty dirty.

The fun of old cars heh.

P.S. the battery is also subpar, which is hindering things a touch lol.

Edited by thebrookster
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Well, we have life again!

I'm at a loss as to what the issue actually was. I turned the dizzy back to it's red mark (not my mark, but figured it was worth a shot). No start. In fact the starter was cutting in/out as well. Blasted battery maybe?

So then I thought, I'll just get rid of the points/condensor out of the equation. I have on the saloon engine the simonbbc (I think) electronic replacement, which worked fine but that was several years back. Swapped over.

Then I popped up to the polytunnel and rescued a spare battery. Stuck it in, same thing, Sluggish turning, and starter solenoid kicking in and out. Okay, maybe I need to charge her up. Stuck the charger on her for 5 mins, before getting impatient and switched it to jump start. In those five minutes I had also started to wonder about earths, so dug out a jump lead and connected it between the earth on the battery and an engine mount.

Turned the key and she fired right up like nothing had happened.

Anyway, I'll clean up the filters and stick 'em back on, and stick some miles on her. Hopefully time will show what the issue was. I'm also waiting on the spares from Burlen in order to deal with the floats once and for all.

And then to find out if she will get over 70mph (though not on a public road, honest officer!!)

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Check your earth straps. Should be a braided one between one of the engine front plate bolts and steering rack mount bolt. Obviously the connections need to be clean and tight and occasionally the straps themselves suffer corrosion at the crimped ends giving high resistance. Check if getting hot after cranking.

Same goes for battery to body strap.

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1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Check your earth straps. Should be a braided one between one of the engine front plate bolts and steering rack mount bolt. Obviously the connections need to be clean and tight and occasionally the straps themselves suffer corrosion at the crimped ends giving high resistance. Check if getting hot after cranking.

Same goes for battery to body strap.

Thesedays I use a hefty earth strap direct from the battery to the engine. As well as the std one to the body. Seems to have fixed all those old earth issues that used to crop up. 

Besides, the number of time I went to pull an engine out, to be foiled by that flippin braided chassis to engine lead under the rack.....

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