Triumph GT6 Mk2

[thebrookster]

Well, it looks like I need to have a good fiddle with carbs, which is not one of preferred jobs I'll admit.

I'm not sure what is supposed to be going on, but it appears the choke cam never disengages! 

She also runs a touch rich.

It looks like the jets are returning, though I'll pop the cable off and double check. But it does explain why I couldn't set the choke cable for fast idle without adding choke, they both come on together!

[thebrookster]

Updated snagging list (this is mostly for my reference, so I don't forget things lol)

1. New tyres needed (fitted tyres are 10 years old)

2. Diagnose and sort potential fuel issue

3. Do something with exhaust

4. Sort the few body blemishes

5. Try and work out what all the (mostly unlabeled) switches are for

6. Rebuild/refoam the seats

7. Sort out carbs

8. Install the updated "Dylan Day" HS6 throttle bracket (as suggested by Tim earlier, many thanks Tim)

9. Investigate diff alternatives

10. Get an MOT

[Escadrille Ecosse]

Ahh. Did smell/look a bit rich when you drove off the other night.

Diff ratios.

If it's only limited motorway stuff then 3.89 plus o/d is OK.

But my personal choice for the six with o/d would be the 3.63 as the 'Goldilocks'. Not to high and not too low and works well with 3rd and o/d on the twisty bits.

 

[thebrookster]

Choke sorted, the cable was clamped holding it open ever so slightly. She also idles nicely now, I am putting that down to rich mixture. 

Fuel filter was filthy, and plenty detritus in the float bowls as well (and they were cleaned just before I got it). So I think the tank has suffered from sitting for 2 years, so it looks like a trip to Halfords for a few more spare filters. Longer term I'll pull the tank, clean it and maybe coat it but cheap filters (or a good cleanable one if I can get hold of one) will suffice for the time being. I mean, if I dilute it enough times, it will solve itself surely 

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, Escadrille Ecosse said:

Ahh. Did smell/look a bit rich when you drove off the other night.

Diff ratios.

If it's only limited motorway stuff then 3.89 plus o/d is OK.

But my personal choice for the six with o/d would be the 3.63 as the 'Goldilocks'. Not to high and not too low and works well with 3rd and o/d on the twisty bits.

 

As above really, though if you are mainly planning on hillclimbing it, what you have now is probably already the correct choice.  Is the LSD intrusive in normal driving?

[Escadrille Ecosse]

2 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

though if you are mainly planning on hillclimbing it,

I have a 4.55 sitting on the shelf for that

[RedRooster]

Got a 4:22 on the 1380 Sprite, it likes back roads. 

[PeteStupps]

On 9/20/2024 at 10:55 AM, thebrookster said:

So, GT6!

After a smooth run down with a mate in my truck, with a couple of detours (one to avoid roadworks and congestion, the other simply to show my mate a bit more of the Lakes) we arrived in Borrowdale just before midday.

Although we had conversed by phone and messages for the last couple of weeks, this was the first time I had met Lei, the chap who has taken on the herculean task of trying to sort through Nuala's extensive collection of spares and cars. I have suggested he pop by here for a visit, he most definitely is crazy enough to fit right in!

After a quick check of the GT6 (still essentially as I remember it) we set too going through all the various sheds etc hunting out GT6 related parts. Along the way we found another dozen wheels/tyres to add to the 2 dozen already known about, plus a whole bunch of parts that we cannot for the life of us fathom why Nuala kept! But it resulted in a complete set of spare rear roto driveshafts, hubs etc. I also very gladly took ownership of a proper Triumph hub puller, a spare rocker cover, new alternator couple of dizzy's and a whole load of other assorted oddments. They were all loaded up into the truck, and by late afternoon we set of for the 170 miles back to Scotland. 

And by god the car drives well! I found a couple of small issues, one is that the idle is too low and she tends to stall out when stopping, the other I found on the motorway where at sustained revs above 3500 she starts bucking, which I suspect may be a fuel issue. She was happy just below 3500 however, which equated to approx 65mph, and to be honest for the sake of my ears this I'm not upset by that! By god that wheelbarrow drones when cruising above 3500!

So, with a brief stop at Gretna, I made it up to Glasgow only to find that the top end of the M74 and a section of M8 were closed, so had to try and navigate round Tradeston and into the south side of Glasgow. 

And disaster struck. Waiting at some lights I put my foot on the clutch, and there was nothing there! I pushed the car into a convenient bike lane and rang the recovery folks. Not the best photo, but you can see the copper line had fractured right at the slave.

However, whilst updating my mate (who had parted ways just before Glasgow) I suddenly recalled that @Escadrille Ecosse was based in the area, so I quickly popped onto here and fired him a message. 10 minutes later he messaged to say he was on his way. He was confident he had all the relevant parts to repair if we could get the line of. Some skinned knuckles later we had success in removing the line, so I promptly cancelled the recovery and we went back to his garage to fabricate a new line. We maybe shouldn't mention that two pretty highly qualified and experienced engineers had a brain fart moment whilst trying to use a flaring tool, but in our defence it was nearly 10 at night 

Anyway, back to the car and one line refitted, fluid filled and we were back in business. After that it was a nice and simple run back up to Loch Lomond side, and safely home.

So, snagging list for now:

1. New tyres needed (fitted tyres are 10 years old)

2. Diagnose and sort potential fuel issue

3. Do something with exhaust

4. Sort the few body blemishes

5. Try and work out what all the (mostly unlabeled) switches are for

6. Rebuild/refoam the seats

7. Raise the idle speed a touch

 

And a final note, a massive thank you to Colin for being an absolute gent and happily coming out after 9pm to assist a fellow triumph nut! The help was greatly received, and it meant the car got home under its own power. Not bad for being garaged and not used for the last 2 years. Thank you Colin, and hopefully next time we meet will be in better circumstances.

Enjoyed reading that write-up Phil, I'm going to pick your brains about some of the other stuff being sold - will PM you. I've been corresponding with the bloke selling it all, about a mk3 Spit bonnet. Apparently you helped liberate it from some scaffolding or something..?

Nothing too serious on your snagging list, looks like a peach of a car that.

[zetecspit]

Re the Dylan Day linkage

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6238368812/posts/10160396808578813/?paipv=0&eav=AfZqgtG25sWk5qwwzs9ZWa53fWjT2zcLXrN5wdOSRCUPZYVptXr-CahOg51pBn7od34&_rdr

looks like a fairly simple bracket, designed for the 2500S manifold. To me a downside is that it is not "progressive". So yes, will give sharper response, but at the expense of a smooth throttle. I like the "snail" type linkages, they make a lot of sense. 

 

 

[TimBancroft]

On 9/23/2024 at 1:16 PM, zetecspit said:

Re the Dylan Day linkage

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6238368812/posts/10160396808578813/?paipv=0&eav=AfZqgtG25sWk5qwwzs9ZWa53fWjT2zcLXrN5wdOSRCUPZYVptXr-CahOg51pBn7od34&_rdr

looks like a fairly simple bracket, designed for the 2500S manifold. To me a downside is that it is not "progressive". So yes, will give sharper response, but at the expense of a smooth throttle. I like the "snail" type linkages, they make a lot of sense. 

Clive, I have just ordered one from Dylan and will fit it to my saloon, will let you know how it is. Steve Radley has one on his 2.5Mk1 Saloon and he thinks it is superior the 2500S type....

 

 

[saleon]

Great that you've got Nuala's car, glad it's found a new home. Hope her other projects do as well.

I'm curious as to how the front Foglights are mounted up on this car. Would you be able to take some pictures of the bracketry inside/outside the bonnet to show how it was done? Ditto the rear reversing spot?

 

Thanks,

AJ

[thebrookster]

On 9/26/2024 at 6:40 AM, saleon said:

Great that you've got Nuala's car, glad it's found a new home. Hope her other projects do as well.

I'm curious as to how the front Foglights are mounted up on this car. Would you be able to take some pictures of the bracketry inside/outside the bonnet to show how it was done? Ditto the rear reversing spot?

 

Thanks,

AJ

Hi AJ,

I have some photos for you, however still seem to have issues attaching photos!

Phil

 

[thebrookster]

Well, I have refoamed the front seat base, seems comfier although not driven it due to next topic!

I have also drained the fuel tank, some cloudy fuel but generally not too bad. I then opened and removed the tank, and checked inside, it actually looks pretty decent to be fair! I'll still clean and coat it.

Which leads onto the fueling issues. This can only be dirt in the line, degraded fuel hoses (I need to order more, I only got 1/4 inch and the stuff by the tank is the next size up it appears, typically) or the pump not supplying enough fuel.

Those in the know, the pump that is fitted is a Facet Solid State 40104, which is a 1.5-4.0psi pump, rated for 25USGal/HR or according to Merlin Motorsport rated for 110bhp. Is this big enough? I'm wondering if I need a bigger pump, along with regulator?

Anyway, whilst I await some learned answers, I'll continue with cleaning the tank ready for coating!

Cheers,

Phil

p.s I have plenty photos, which I will attach once the powers that be allow us to do so.

[Nick Jones]

Not a fan of the Facet pumps. Personally I like the Huco one, which don’t need a regulator. Note that they come in two forms, sucker and pusher. If rear-mounted you need the pusher. Fuel line ought to be 5/16” (8mm). 

[JohnD]

How is the delivery volume quoted? "for 110 bhp" isn't far above the stock GT6 and do you know if it was 'breathed on'?  If there were even slight blockages in the hoses, then that could make a good pump inadequate.

Is that 25gal/hr rating free flow, or under max pressure?    If the first, you could check it's function by running it into a measuring jug for five minutes.

But I'd wait until you can renew the hoses, and try the car on a tank of fresh fuel.   The old can go in the lawn mower!

John

[zetecspit]

I fitted a Mitsubushi electric fuel pump from a Yamaha 600cc motorbike. In fact I got 3 for £30 from bike breaker. Quite old, probably 20 years or so but they often don't do much work.

The bike make about 120bhp, so I a making the assumption (always dangerous) that it will be fine on my 1600 Vitesse (it is) and I will fit one to my sprint at some point, keeping one as a spare. They are a copy of the old SU electric pumps, but Jap made and probably bombproof. Still use mechanical points, I just gave those a light rub with abrasive and it quietly ticks away, no drama. Only downside is that it has a 10mm connection on the inlet side, so required an adaptor. 

Back on track, 1/2 US gallon a minute should be plenty! that is approx 5mpg at 120mph. or 2 1/2 at 60mph.  I think it will be fine. 

 

[thebrookster]

18 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Not a fan of the Facet pumps. Personally I like the Huco one, which don’t need a regulator. Note that they come in two forms, sucker and pusher. If rear-mounted you need the pusher. Fuel line ought to be 5/16” (8mm). 

I actually have a Huco sucker type on the shelf in the garage! It flows an extra 9 (US) gallons an hour over the Facet.

Yeah, I figured that out re Fuel Line. 

20 minutes ago, JohnD said:

How is the delivery volume quoted? "for 110 bhp" isn't far above the stock GT6 and do you know if it was 'breathed on'?  If there were even slight blockages in the hoses, then that could make a good pump inadequate.

Is that 25gal/hr rating free flow, or under max pressure?    If the first, you could check it's function by running it into a measuring jug for five minutes.

But I'd wait until you can renew the hoses, and try the car on a tank of fresh fuel.   The old can go in the lawn mower!

John

Yes, the engine is "breathed on", John. Also has a Piper 2TYN cam. Not sure what the power is though.

Flow - I'm gonna assume free flow. Though when measured I only got approx 20 (US) gall/HR, which doesn't help. That was through two filters (one before pump and one after).

Given that the current pump is wired up to a switch labelled "Spare Pump", and is good to 70mph (and maybe more with fresh fuel/hoses etc) I'm thinking I will wire the Huco in as well, and run that as the main pump. Obviously I'll need to consider piping, but it does give me a back up then.

Phil

[thebrookster]

5 minutes ago, zetecspit said:

Back on track, 1/2 US gallon a minute should be plenty! that is approx 5mpg at 120mph. or 2 1/2 at 60mph.  I think it will be fine. 

 

Which should be fine then? Particularly as my quick math just suggested I am getting over 20mpg, possibly closer to 27/28.

Okay, John's suggestion with your maths has merit, I'll replace the hoses, stick fresh fuel in and see what happens. And I have the Huco pump "up me sleeve" if need be.

[JohnD]

I have worked with cars that had dual pumps, in both cases Facets, plumbed in parallel.   It's important to know that the Facet - don't know about the Huco - can let fuel flow backwards through it!     So that unless you intend normally to run both at once, you need a reliable one-way valve in front of each., else the non-running pump will 'rob' the flow from the  running one.

Mine has two, running at once, but in a different configuration.  Facet as lifter, to swirl pot, that feeds a Bosch high pressure pump by hydrostatic head.

John

Edited October 7, 2024 by JohnD

[thebrookster]

4 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I have worked with cars that had dual pumps, in both cases Facets, plumbed in parallel.   It's important to know that the Facet - don't know about the Huco - can let fuel flow backwards through it!

Yeah, I was aware that could be an issue. However, as I would be fitting these essentially "inline" rather than parallel, that shouldn't in theory happen. But it would mean that in absolute basic install scenario the Hugo would have to pull through the facet, or the Facet would have to push through the Huco. Not ideal.

What I would do is fit a 3-way valve before each pump, and run a small "bypass" line past the pump. Then if I required the second pump, I would simply stop, change over the two valves and start/stop the relevant pump.

No decisions shall be made yet however, until I have finished the tank, replaced the hoses and tried it again! The pump was installed by TR Enterprises, and they also built the engine, so in theory at least it should be correctly spec'd, one would hope.

[egret]

I think from what you are saying that you could use one way (non return) valves in place of the 3 way valves and achieve the same thing by preventing backflow on the bypasses.  Pressure drop might be slightly higher, but it depends upon the type of non return valve and 3 way valves chosen.

[JohnD]

Glencoe are the UK distributors of Facets.  Their website offers a suitable one way valve with  a variety of connectors: Search results for: 'one way valve' | Walbro, Facet, Weber, Dellorto & more (glencoeltd.co.uk)

John

[zetecspit]

51 minutes ago, thebrookster said:

Yeah, I was aware that could be an issue. However, as I would be fitting these essentially "inline" rather than parallel, that shouldn't in theory happen. But it would mean that in absolute basic install scenario the Hugo would have to pull through the facet, or the Facet would have to push through the Huco. Not ideal.

What I would do is fit a 3-way valve before each pump, and run a small "bypass" line past the pump. Then if I required the second pump, I would simply stop, change over the two valves and start/stop the relevant pump.

No decisions shall be made yet however, until I have finished the tank, replaced the hoses and tried it again! The pump was installed by TR Enterprises, and they also built the engine, so in theory at least it should be correctly spec'd, one would hope.

I would keep it simple if possible, and just carry a spare pump. If it is a straight swap it can be done in under 5 mins. On a few RBRR I carried a facet pump as a spare (as I had one) with hoses pre connected ready to replace the mechanical pump should the need arise. It had cables attached too, ready for fusebox connection rather than faffing with doing a "nice" job. A few cable ties to fix it, I reckon it would be done in a couple of minutes. Naturally it wasn't needed....

[thebrookster]

37 minutes ago, zetecspit said:

I would keep it simple if possible, and just carry a spare pump. If it is a straight swap it can be done in under 5 mins

Which is a fair point. I'm just getting carried away musing, the issue of keeping a spare is the Facet is a pusher, whilst my Huco is a sucker. I don't have space to fit a bigger pump in the boot either, and the wiring and labels etc are is already setup for a spare pump.

I'm hoping I can keep with the Facet, and the problem is indeed somewhere else and solved with some hoses and compressed air 

[JohnD]

You have a pusher (Facet in the boot?) and a suckered (Huco, next the engine?)   Then mount and wire both in, but keep the spare (whichever) disconnected from the hose system.   Provide redundant length in the adjacent hoses, and a dry break connector.    The first fails, unplug it from the hoses, plug in the spare. And off again!

Given  electric valves, you could do that from the driving seat!

John