JohnD Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) I've bought another car. I know, crackers. But it's worse. This is a Vitesse-based Spartan special: It had been "the property of a gentleman", who as such people do, kept it for years, doing nothing to it or for it. When he died, friends cleared his house, and persuaded a friendly scrap dealer to store it on top of a cargo container. And not just this, there were three other cars up there, two Mini-based 'Ramblers' and a Mini-based MG Midget look' alike. Like my friend, I couldn't bear to see it crushed, so I've taken it on. I'm NOT going to restore it myself, but hope either to find someone who will, or else break it for parts. Any volunteers? John Edited July 22 by JohnD
Nick Jones Posted July 22 Posted July 22 I’m thinking “organ donor” I’m afraid. Mk1 or Mk2 Vitesse base? Overdrive?
JohnD Posted July 23 Author Posted July 23 (edited) Oh, I don 't think so! Those sweeping mudguard/running boards - very 'Morgan'! But I am determined, it either moves on to be restored, or is a donor. It can't stay in my front drive! John Edited July 23 by JohnD
zetecspit Posted July 23 Posted July 23 I was gifted a Spartan about 20 years ago. Bloody awful thing. It was Vitesse based, so no space for proper air cleaners. I got it though an MoT and sold it on fleabay. You may find somebody to take it on as is, but check if it is correctly registered. If not, it needs IVA as the front chassis outriggers are chopped off. Tough plenty of people ignore the need for an IVA with these cars.
mossmonaco Posted July 23 Posted July 23 have you tried contacting the spartan owners club? www.spartan-oc.co.uk. Spartans were a popular and well regarded kit for a long time so I would expect the club to be fairly active.
Martin Posted July 23 Posted July 23 A real barn find. I always fancied a Triumph (locust) or Mini (GTM) based Kit Car. But there is no chance to get it road legal in Germany nowadays.
JohnD Posted July 23 Author Posted July 23 I was told that the Spartan Club weren't interested! But why not, try again! John
Escadrille Ecosse Posted July 23 Posted July 23 A Spartan. Aethetics are as they say in the eye of the beholder, but I have to say this particular beholder is with Andy @andymcp in considering them 'visually unappealing'. A work colleague may years ago had one. Didn't really look any better up close. The thing also tried to kill him on the A82 Renton bypass when the lengthened steering column spontaneously decided to go back to it's original length. Fortunately he was still in the cutting at the time and the long grass in the banking brought things to a halt before any serious damage was done. Had it happened on the embankment section it would likey have been a different story. Anyway John. I hope you find a new home for it soon.
mossmonaco Posted July 23 Posted July 23 just for clarification.....when I wrote 'spartans were a popular and well regarded kit' I was not expressing a personal opinion! I've always regarded spartans as being ugly, but my own choice of kit car is hardly conventional-beauty in the eye of the beholder- but they aparently sold 4000 of them so they must be one of the most popular kits ever made For a fuller picture of a spartan try https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=2729339930543993&set=a.239761752835169 for a more attractive car go to the second picture........
Escadrille Ecosse Posted July 24 Posted July 24 (edited) 12 hours ago, mossmonaco said: just for clarification.....when I wrote 'spartans were a popular and well regarded kit' I was not expressing a personal opinion! I've always regarded spartans as being ugly, but my own choice of kit car is hardly conventional-beauty in the eye of the beholder- but they aparently sold 4000 of them so they must be one of the most popular kits ever made For a fuller picture of a spartan try https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=2729339930543993&set=a.239761752835169 for a more attractive car go to the second picture........ Just for clarification, we wouldn't think any less of you (but it is better now you've cleared that up) Lancia Beta was a lovely looking car. Just a shame about the rust! That one looks particularly nice. Although on my Facebook the second picture was this... Which may actually be more attractive than the Spartan Some interesting and 'interesting' cars on that site. Rather taken with the red Rover Vitesse... and DS Safari! Edited July 24 by Escadrille Ecosse
JohnD Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 (edited) A clean-up, pressure wash, removal the drift of old leaves inside and inspection of the underneath reveals that it has a Triumph six cylinder engine, gearbox and diff, with Rotoflex rear axle, and Triumph suspension, but the wheelbase is six inches longer than a Vitesse, so probably not an original propshaft, if that matters, but IDs the car as a Spartan +2. The wire wheels are genuine, splined to the wheel hubs which I don't think was ever a Triumph option. The chassis is galvanised, which has to be a plus given its history, the wings, mudguards and running board are all GRP while the body work is all aluminium on a steel frame. The doors and latches work, the engine turns, on a spanner, all the road wheels turn and the steering works. I'll try to get it off the trailer as soon as I can re-inflate some of the tyres, as pushing it on flatties wouldn't work. I know nothing of Spartans, although clearly I'm going to learn. It seems to have a number of nicely made aluminium castings that must have been part of the kit, the radiator shell, the windscreen surround, the door window frames, and the enormous securing nut for the spare wheel. This must have been a superior kit in its day, which if 4000 were sold must prove it's popularity. John PS Sorry, I don't 'do' Facebook anymore, since some idiot hijacked my account! Edited July 24 by JohnD
Nick Jones Posted July 24 Posted July 24 31 minutes ago, JohnD said: The wire wheels are genuine, splined to the wheel hubs which I don't think was ever a Triumph option It was; I think you’ll find that it has splined adaptors that bolt onto to usual (but shortened) studs with shorter nuts. A somewhat flakey arrangement with double the usual opportunity for unscheduled detachment…..
JohnD Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 (edited) Indeed, Nick! I find in John Thomason's excellent "Guide to Originality" that it was a Spitfire and GT6 optional extra at £36 5s and 6d! So, possibly for Vitesse as as well, or else as part of the Spartan kit. Now, £1700 from Rimmers! I've had no answer from the Spartan Club, but then I find on Pistonheads that someone who bought a Spartan in 2011 (!) had no answer from them then! John Edited July 24 by JohnD
andymcp Posted July 24 Posted July 24 The problem with a lot of the 70's & 80's kit cars is that the proportions are compromised by the donor vehicle dimensions. To this day, some of the BMW Z3 based offerings just look a bit 'odd' (though just swapping body panels does get around the IVA issue).
JohnD Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 "compromised by the donor vehicle dimensions" How so? Looks? This is a Spartan +2, with a wheelbase six inches longer than the Vitesse, and to me that succeeds in terms of the 'sweep' of the side view, and given that it has these Triumph wire-wheel mods, a wider track by an inch or two. The PO/builder should be shot however, for using sheet steel between the ally skinned doors and the window frame. The rust really lets the rest down. John
andymcp Posted July 24 Posted July 24 The designer should have taken 12" out of the wheelbase rather that add 6" in! Then again I have never liked the Morgan 4 seater either.
mossmonaco Posted July 24 Posted July 24 5 hours ago, andymcp said: The designer should have taken 12" out of the wheelbase rather that add 6" in! Then again I have never liked the Morgan 4 seater either. that would give a wheelbase 4 inches shorter than a GT6. Its a 2+2. have you ever tried sitting in the back of a GT6? The Beauford kit shows what you can do by extending the wheelbase of a mini https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1714111
mossmonaco Posted July 24 Posted July 24 8 hours ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: Just for clarification, we wouldn't think any less of you (but it is better now you've cleared that up) Lancia Beta was a lovely looking car. Just a shame about the rust! That one looks particularly nice. Although on my Facebook the second picture was this... Which may actually be more attractive than the Spartan Some interesting and 'interesting' cars on that site. Rather taken with the red Rover Vitesse... and DS Safari! thats the picture I was refering to.
Escadrille Ecosse Posted July 24 Posted July 24 42 minutes ago, mossmonaco said: thats the picture I was refering to.
mossmonaco Posted July 24 Posted July 24 7 hours ago, JohnD said: A clean-up, pressure wash, removal the drift of old leaves inside and inspection of the underneath reveals that it has a Triumph six cylinder engine, gearbox and diff, with Rotoflex rear axle, and Triumph suspension, but the wheelbase is six inches longer than a Vitesse, so probably not an original propshaft, if that matters, but IDs the car as a Spartan +2. The wire wheels are genuine, splined to the wheel hubs which I don't think was ever a Triumph option. The chassis is galvanised, which has to be a plus given its history, the wings, mudguards and running board are all GRP while the body work is all aluminium on a steel frame. The doors and latches work, the engine turns, on a spanner, all the road wheels turn and the steering works. I'll try to get it off the trailer as soon as I can re-inflate some of the tyres, as pushing it on flatties wouldn't work. I know nothing of Spartans, although clearly I'm going to learn. It seems to have a number of nicely made aluminium castings that must have been part of the kit, the radiator shell, the windscreen surround, the door window frames, and the enormous securing nut for the spare wheel. This must have been a superior kit in its day, which if 4000 were sold must prove it's popularity. John PS Sorry, I don't 'do' Facebook anymore, since some idiot hijacked my account! Is it on the vitesse chassis? I seem to remember that swapping the suspension towers L/R increases the wheelbase (? its a vague memory)
JohnD Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 Can't see how swapping them R x L would change the track at all! But it's not the Vitesse chassis, as said galvanised which Triumph never did, and must be that bit longer and possibly wider. It has front discs, which would be right for an early Vitesse 2L, but also Rotaflex rear which was. Mk2 change, but the brakes are seized on! Had to get it off my trailer by using dollies! John
Escadrille Ecosse Posted July 24 Posted July 24 48 minutes ago, mossmonaco said: I seem to remember that swapping the suspension towers L/R increases the wheelbase Swapping the towers over was to move the engine back while keeping the standard mounts. Was common for 30's style kit cars to allow the dumb-iron look with the radiator over the front axle. 3 minutes ago, JohnD said: But it's not the Vitesse chassis, as said galvanised which Triumph never did There were many kits that lengthened the chassis and then added new outriggers/sills to suit the new body style. Can't remember if the Spartan was one of them. There were very few kits of this style that used a completely new chassis. The Marlin being the main one I can recall. Galvanising wasn't done by Triumph but doesn't mean a PO didn't get it galvanised as part of the kit build.
andymcp Posted July 25 Posted July 25 14 hours ago, mossmonaco said: The Beauford kit shows what you can do by extending the wheelbase of a mini I'm saying nothing... 14 hours ago, mossmonaco said: Its a 2+2 That's it's problem! 12 hours ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: The Marlin being the main one I can recall. Now that's not a bad looking design. At this point, I should confess I built a Lomax 224 in the 90's! Which was my daily driver for 2 years.
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