Trump

[zetecspit]

This bloke is a nightmare. 

How he has the balls to say a judge is corrupt (I hope the judge sues him for defamation, and I would love to see Trump prove his claims) 

He is corroding trust in the whole American system, destroying it, bit by bit to get his own way. And the Republican party is supporting him all along the way, possibly out of fear of his wrath. Or the hope of a job if he becomes President again. 

I hope he does time in prison. Unlikely, and no doubt an appeal will drag on and on. 

But the fact it was a unanimous decision on all counts speaks volumes. On reflection, a hung jury on some charges may have been a more compelling result, showing the jury were unncertain on some charges but clear that he was guilty as sin on most. Less grounds for appeal with that.

Anyway, please ignore my witterings. I am not certain I want to see Biden leading the USA for another few years, but maybe if he wins he will soon step down and let his VP take over. That would be a smart move. 

 

[Nick Jones]

3 hours ago, zetecspit said:

This bloke is a nightmare. 

He is……

Spoilt brat.  Needs to wear chains and orange jump suit.

Original sentencing date changed as need in court elsewhere to face up to some of his other crimes.

Wake up America, this guy will do you harm! (And the rest of us!)

[Escadrille Ecosse]

1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Wake up America, this guy will do you harm! (And the rest of us!)

Ridiculous, fake news you pinko. He's going to make america great again, whatever that means...

Round them up, put them in a field and bomb the bastards....

Spot on Kenny...

[michaeljf]

Hello, Well it seems to be......a unanimous vote! even over here. Regards, Michael.

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, michaeljf said:

Hello, Well it seems to be......a unanimous vote! even over here. Regards, Michael.

Yeah…. But we don’t get a vote (even though the outcome will be important to us). Those actually trusted with the vote…..

For many it seems to be a binary, tribal thing (a consequence and defect of their political system IMO). So we have people (so many people, including plenty who should know better) supporting him even while he wilfully undermines their legal system and democracy! Civil war beckons…..

Another defect of their system is even allowing someone with such, err, “legal problems” to be in the running. Astonishing really.

[JohnD]

Surely there is a parallel between Trump in the US and the Brexit debate here?   Both led by populist politicians, whose preaching was based on complete nonsense about minorities, and fantasy finances.  The second didn't turn out well, did it?

John

[Nick Jones]

Sure. Not just Brexit either. 
 

Tribalism too. But not quite as entrenched - yet.

[PaulAA]

On 5/31/2024 at 10:00 AM, zetecspit said:

This bloke is a nightmare.

Sorry, Clive - you've set the table for a rant.

Populism is predicated on lies and bogeymen, as Farage amply demonstrated (and will continue to do so for the good burghers of Clacton), but Trump succeeds like no other in the US because of their almost pathological susceptibility to conspiracy theories, and their narrow range of election issues (Jesus, guns and the price of gas).

It is a sad fact that the general level of education in the US is pitiably low (54% of the population have literacy skills at or below those of a 12 year-old), making them easy prey for religious nonsense, xenophobia and paranoia. Trump has been skilful in targeting both the under-educated for voter numbers, and the super-wealthy for funds. It beggars belief that the grunts continue to support him, if for no other reason than he is stealing money from them to give to his circle of the wealthy elite. His promised offer to the oil companies, in exchange for a $1 billion donation to his campaign, is estimated to equate to $110 billion in tax breaks, even before looking at the enormous impact of reeling back climate law as part of the deal. Clearly a man of the people.

Even the most rudimentary analysis of his policies, associations and policy promises underline that he has a very unhealthy relationship with unsavoury autocracies around the world, and Putin in particular. Putin made a throw away comment about hoping that Biden wins in November (well, he would say that, wouldn’t he?) and the single-digit braincell MAGAs are thrown off the trail. His promise of cutting off funding to Ukraine plays directly into Putin’s hands, even to the point of hamstringing re-supply to his own military (I wanted to question whether he’d even read Milton Friedman, but that would be a daft question…)

He won’t go to jail as a result of the election interference trial (that would just make him a martyr) and any sentence involving community service will be delegated to a minion. The fine will be almost meaningless, so the conclusion can only be that yes, he is above the law. And the SCOTUS will reaffirm that when they vouchsafe him in any Federal trial that reaches them before November, should there be any doubt.

The US needs to recognise where they’ve set sail for and hold a memorial service for the Republican Party. It no longer exists.

[zetecspit]

16 minutes ago, PaulAA said:

Sorry, Clive - you've set the table for a rant.

Apologies, but I had to get it off my chest

Totally agree that he has broken the Republicans. Which is a shame, as (I have said several times) I believe a decent opposition party is a healthy thing. 

Now, Farage. What a to$$er. Clever, manipulative, self serving are just a few on the words that could be used to describe him. Maybe Trump no longer requires his service?

[PaulAA]

I bear no grudge towards Clacton, but I hope they choose the toe rag, so that he is an elected Member of the very Parliament that exercises the democratic will of a much better informed country, and re-engages economically, fiscally, legally and socially with the EU.

Short of strapping him to the keel of a refugee boat approaching a pebbly beach, I can't think of a more appropriate end to his 'career'.

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, PaulAA said:

I bear no grudge towards Clacton, but I hope they choose the toe rag,

I prefer he maintains his run and bats 0 for 8...... loathsome little man needs more defeat in his life.

[JohnD]

A comment on Paul's analysis of the nature of the Trump's supporters.

I may have chuntered on about a BBC Radio4 programme, "In our Time" before.   Melvyn Bragg invites experts into the studio to discuss a subject, any subject, but never a boring subject.    This programme fulfils the BBC's mission statement like no other, "To Inform, educate and entertain" its listeners, and I think it knows that, since there are over one thousand editions available to listen to on BBC Sounds (the radio iPlayer).  Anyway, they did one on  "The Rapture", wherein believers will be soon saved and transported from this world by the Second Coming of Christ.  (BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time, The Rapture)   There was mentioned that the US's unvarying support for Israel, whatever it does, arises from the parallel belief that the Jewish nation and the land of Israel has a special role in the Rapture, so that it is the strongly Christian American nation (80% believers vs 40 in UK) rather than the tiny (2%) of Jewish Americans that influences US foreign policy.

John

 

[PaulAA]

1 minute ago, JohnD said:

A comment on Paul's analysis of the nature of the Trump's supporters.

I may have chuntered on about a BBC Radio4 programme, "In our Time" before.   Melvyn Bragg invites experts into the studio to discuss a subject, any subject, but never a boring subject.    This programme fulfils the BBC's mission statement like no other, "To Inform, educate and entertain" its listeners, and I think it knows that, since there are over one thousand editions available to listen to on BBC Sounds (the radio iPlayer).  Anyway, they did one on  "The Rapture", wherein believers will be soon saved and transported from this world by the Second Coming of Christ.  (BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time, The Rapture)   There was mentioned that the US's unvarying support for Israel, whatever it does, arises from the parallel belief that the Jewish nation and the land of Israel has a special role in the Rapture, so that it is the strongly Christian American nation (80% believers vs 40 in UK) rather than the tiny (2%) of Jewish Americans that influences US foreign policy.

John

 

John

The knots the Christian Nationalists, amongst others, tie themselves into to justify the unwavering support for Israel ought to be amusing, especially their search for some theological connection and shared destiny, to bind the US's prejudicial version of Christianity to Israel's pugnacious version of Judaism. But it is just ghoulishly grim.

Equally ghoulist for an ostensibly developed country is the use of the bible as a tool to limit personal freedoms (despite a clear Constitutional separation of church and State), and justifying it with the mantra that the US is a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy, as if this somehow explains why turkeys should vote for Christmas (... or Thanksgiving). This is usually repeated by people who are likely as unfamiliar with the wording of the Constitution as they are with the bible, mind. People who vaguely clasp onto the 2nd Amendment as a justification for their unholy attachment to firearms and can quote two or three excerpts from the bible to embellish their social media posts. Guns'n'Jesus... praying for your enemy's death.

It was frankly disturbing to see such a large proportion of the population connect the recent solar eclipse to 'The Rapture', and invent explanations and Nostradamus-esque outcomes. These are grown people. With weapons of mass destruction at their disposal. And, given the flood of donations he received after his conviction, Trump knows how to play them.

Paul

 

[JohnD]

I know this is a side issue to the subject of this thread, but if I may 'trumpet' (!) "In Our Time" (IOT) again, because It  shows that American political dogmatism and lack of debate were not always so.    Another IOT programme was on "The Federalist Papers", a series of New York newspaper articles published in the 1780s, to discuss the forthcoming American Constitution.   Written anonymously by among others, Alexander Hamilton (he of the smash hit musical - why that deeply historical show works outside the US beats me) it ran to 85 articles, that were so popular that demand led to them being subsequently published in book form.

I would never have known about these papers or the debate they stimulated, if were not for IOT.    And in this Election,  I fear that we shall never see Guardian or Daily Mail editorials reprinted to satisfy popular demand.

John

[PaulAA]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

And in this Election,  I fear that we shall never see Guardian or Daily Mail editorials reprinted to satisfy popular demand.

 

I don't know, John - I think John Crace's "Lights, cameras, Farage: Nige just couldn’t bear to be left out" was bitingly accurate yesterday.

[JohnD]

Oh, the comment is penetrating, biting even.  Butni fesrvthst even here, the level.ofmpolihicsl involvement isn't up to 18th Cent levels!

[PaulAA]

39 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Butni fesrvthst even here, the level.ofmpolihicsl involvement isn't up to 18th Cent levels!

John, you haven't caught a nasty dose of Trumpspeak, have you..?

[JohnD]

No, just too much cofefe.

[Nick Jones]

That’s the sort of gibber my iPhone produces if I don’t correct it 

[RogerH]

Regarding the bible and soppy folk that follow it word for word.

A couple of weeks ago I had a visitation from a brace of JW's. Nice and polite but they were trying to sway me with lines and verses from ther holy book.

All well and good, I stated, but the Old Testament is a serious work of fiction and make believe.  The people that wrote it were not there when it happened.

As for as for visions and foresight - given enough time most premonitions will come true.

The New Testament  was in general written in living memory but many years after the events.  Given the then lack of communication nobody knew what was going on.  The missionaries of the time where speaking to ignorant people via ignorant people. 

Translation corrupted the written word even further.

The JW's on my door step had a look of concern on their faces when they made a rapid retreat

I think my version of Noah didn't go down too well with them.

 

Sadly the world is full of folk that refuse to question and think for themselves. And then force their attitudes on others

My credentials - I am a practicing Catholic and question everything. God I can believe in. Jesus I can accept.   It's the other stuff

Roger

[RedRooster]

Go on tell us your version of Noah, pretty please. 

[Escadrille Ecosse]

10 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Go on tell us your version of Noah, pretty please. 

Yes please 

[JohnD]

Thing about Noah's Flood is that it'sprobably true!   The Black Sea was a much smaller fresh water lake, draining intonthe Aegean Sea.   Then after the Little Ice Age, the last one, the Seas were rising as glaciers melted,until the Mediterranean was higher than the Black Sea basin.  In a catastrophic event, it broke through the Bosphorous straights and flooded the area, drowning a vast area of land around the lake.

This was in about 5000 BCE, so that it was surely the origin of the Noah legend?   

See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

John

[Escadrille Ecosse]

10 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Thing about Noah's Flood is that it'sprobably true! 

John, the 'thing' about Noah's flood in the bible is Noah and his boat big enough to hold two of every animal in the entire world while disregarding every other human being on the planet. But the bible never mentions kangaroos or aardvarks.

There have been a lot of floods around the place. For every Black Sea flood hypothesis there is a Mediterranean filling one, or a Mesoptamian Tigris-Euphrates one, or Nile delta, or Thera. Or even the North Sea and Doggerland. Seems more likely that the story was based on a local 'big flood' somewhere with all the alegorical bits tacked on to keep the proles in line.

Lots of smiting. The old testament is essentially a slasher horror story of mayhem, butchery and murder.

 

[JohnD]

Absolutely, Colin.    Catastrophic inundations have been real events, so that a "Greate Floode" may be founded in that reality, and the story passed down by oral telling.      I don't attempt to defend the rest of the Noah legend!   But if the Black Sea flood was the origin, then almost certainly  there were farmers in that area at that time as 'farming' started about 10,000BCE, and surely one of them tried to save - in fact DID save, else the legend would never have started - their family and livestock by putting them in a boat.  Or raft, canoe or reed boat.   But a 450ft three-decker in  gopher wood?   No way! 

Likewise, but without geological or archaeological evidence, that there really was a preacher with an alternative religious view to the Jewish orthodoxy of that time, which included evangelism, completely against Judaism,  seems perfectly possible.   Judaism is a wide church today! 

John