PaulAA Posted May 26, 2024 Posted May 26, 2024 Chaps, I am embarrassed to be asking for help on such a basic issue, but I cannot fathom why the TR6 won't start. The car has stood for maybe two months, whilst brake cylinders, replacement brake cylinders and alternative replacement brake cylinders were sourced, couriered and installed (sorted, as of last Friday), during which process, I reaffirmed my long-held belief that FedEx hold a special place beyond mere cockwomble ineptitude. Their latest gem is that the duty and taxes to be paid by the receiver when suppliers don't sign up for the IOSS small-packet scheme are themselves subject to VAT. Their bill was VAT, duty, their services, and VAT on the whole sum. VAT on VAT. Crooks. I digress. The '6 was serviced whilst waiting, but now it won't start and I can't work out why. Ignition seems to be fine - all gaps are per the brown book, there's a good spark when cranking and all components (cables, points, rotor, cap, coil) are in good nick. There's fresh fuel coming through and the plugs are wet with it when I pull them after cranking. The fuel filter is new and there's no (exceptional, unusual) leakage around the engine. When I crank (open choke, progressive throttle), it catches maybe once on one cylinder and then nothing. I know I'm missing something really obvious, but I'm Johnny No Mates here in the half-century British car club and I cannot see the wood for the trees. Carbs are SU HS6s, which have been trouble-free so far. Pots are correctly filled and nothing has been changed/disconnected since before the temporary lay-up. Any suggestions gratefully received. Paul
thebrookster Posted May 26, 2024 Posted May 26, 2024 How old is the fuel? This modern ethanol fuel is a bugger, 6 months (or less) and it causes issues.
PaulAA Posted May 26, 2024 Author Posted May 26, 2024 2 minutes ago, thebrookster said: How old is the fuel? This modern ethanol fuel is a bugger, 6 months (or less) and it causes issues. The quarter tank that was in there is less than three months old, and I topped it up with 5 litres of freshly-squeezed juice this afternoon.
JohnD Posted May 26, 2024 Posted May 26, 2024 Can you/have you tried a spray of "Stsrt ya Barstard" or similar? It's been a sovereign test for me. If it starts, even briefly, with spray, it's a fuel.problem. if not, its ignition. John
zetecspit Posted May 27, 2024 Posted May 27, 2024 When you say "serviced" what was done? Anything to the ignition system?
mossmonaco Posted May 27, 2024 Posted May 27, 2024 did the battery require a charge at any stage? if so then perhaps 1.ignition got left on (flattening battery) 2.coil got cooked coz ign left on 3. it requires a lot less volts to create a spark in air at atmospheric pressure than in compressed fuel vapour so plug out-you szee a spark,plug in-no spark to see As above-a good squirt of ether will confirm if it's fuel or ignition.
PaulAA Posted May 27, 2024 Author Posted May 27, 2024 14 hours ago, JohnD said: Can you/have you tried a spray of "Stsrt ya Barstard" or similar? It's been a sovereign test for me. If it starts, even briefly, with spray, it's a fuel.problem. if not, its ignition. Not yet, John, and good deduction - I'm searching for the local equivalent. 6 hours ago, zetecspit said: When you say "serviced" what was done? Anything to the ignition system? Just the usual - fluids changed, nipples greased, gaps (mech & elec) checked and the thrust washer replaced, but nothing else in the ignition system was touched. 6 hours ago, RedRooster said: Try cleaning the spark plugs. That was my starting point - it has W7DTCs, so cleaning them is the first port of call
PaulAA Posted May 27, 2024 Author Posted May 27, 2024 3 hours ago, mossmonaco said: did the battery require a charge at any stage? if so then perhaps 1.ignition got left on (flattening battery) 2.coil got cooked coz ign left on 3. it requires a lot less volts to create a spark in air at atmospheric pressure than in compressed fuel vapour so plug out-you szee a spark,plug in-no spark to see As above-a good squirt of ether will confirm if it's fuel or ignition. Battery is good, and still delivering a good churn on the starter motor. I'll try swapping the coil, in case it was fizzed - but would it still produce a spark in atmospheric temp if the coil was burnt?
PaulAA Posted May 27, 2024 Author Posted May 27, 2024 1 hour ago, Hamish said: Plug leads go back in the correct order ? Yes, they're numbered (for the stupid owner) and the spanner man who helped me with the service (and is now obscured by the proverbial trail of dust behind him) would have taken the precaution of leaving oily finger marks on the cables if he'd removed them from the dizzy cap.
Escadrille Ecosse Posted May 27, 2024 Posted May 27, 2024 6 hours ago, mossmonaco said: did the battery require a charge at any stage? if so then perhaps 1.ignition got left on (flattening battery) 2.coil got cooked coz ign left on 3. it requires a lot less volts to create a spark in air at atmospheric pressure than in compressed fuel vapour so plug out-you szee a spark,plug in-no spark to see As above-a good squirt of ether will confirm if it's fuel or ignition. With MM here. After checking the firing order (and that the distibutor is not 180 deg out), clean and dry the plugs and make sure you're getting a good spark. You added new fuel but it probably hasn't reached the carbs yet so I would suggest you drain the float chambers and pump fresh fuel through the fuel system before refilling the carbs. Then make sure the battery is fully charged and giving full output. I've had the situation where having done all the above the car still wouldn't start until I put booster cables on the battery from the other car. basically the battery had got 'a bit tired' over the winter
RedRooster Posted May 27, 2024 Posted May 27, 2024 Mine can be a bugger to start sometimes when left, I clean the plugs and use a rather large battery booster it usually goes then and seems to be sweet for quite a while. I do have a fuel return line to tank line at 1/2 litre a minute, so there's flow but I put that in for the stupid summer temperatures in the south of France and fuel boiling. As above fresh petrol in the carbs and clean your plugs first.
PaulAA Posted May 27, 2024 Author Posted May 27, 2024 1 hour ago, Escadrille Ecosse said: Then make sure the battery is fully charged and giving full output. I've had the situation where having done all the above the car still wouldn't start until I put booster cables on the battery from the other car. basically the battery had got 'a bit tired' over the winter Thanks, Colin - good call. The battery is only about five years old and holds fair charge, but I'll try boosting it. The coil is pukka, according to my multimeter. 1 hour ago, RedRooster said: Mine can be a bugger to start sometimes when left Oddly, mine has never been, except whent the plugs are oiled. With clean plugs it invariably starts first churn. Until now.
egret Posted May 28, 2024 Posted May 28, 2024 It's worth checking the carburettor jets aren't gummed up and are moving up and down with application of the choke i.e. not only dropping with the application of choke, but also returning to the starting poing when the choke it put back in. If they are stuck this could cause flooding. 1
PaulAA Posted May 28, 2024 Author Posted May 28, 2024 Narrowed it down to the one part that's not cropped up yet - the condenser. Tracking one down over here is tomorrow's task, haha!
JohnD Posted May 29, 2024 Posted May 29, 2024 Paul, the condensor is an optional item! The inventor of distributor ignition, Kettering, added it a few months afterwards, when he realised that it suppressed arcing at the points and prolonged their lives, massively. Condensors fail either by failing to condense, or by conducting, short circuiting the points, so no spark at all. Just taking the condensor away, right out, removes it from the equation and shows immediately if it was the fault. This works at home or away, when even with increased arcing at the points they will get you home. JOhn 1
PaulAA Posted May 29, 2024 Author Posted May 29, 2024 5 hours ago, JohnD said: Paul, the condensor is an optional item! The inventor of distributor ignition, Kettering, added it a few months afterwards, when he realised that it suppressed arcing at the points and prolonged their lives, massively. Condensors fail either by failing to condense, or by conducting, short circuiting the points, so no spark at all. Just taking the condensor away, right out, removes it from the equation and shows immediately if it was the fault. This works at home or away, when even with increased arcing at the points they will get you home. JOhn Thanks, John... I think. I continue to be stumped. The coil is good - checked with a multimeter. Everything else in the ignition assembly is correct. I tried a burst of 'start yer basturd' and... no dice. I'll report further...
RedRooster Posted May 29, 2024 Posted May 29, 2024 Do you still get 12v at the coil when cranking? You could try a wire direct to the coil from the battery.
PaulAA Posted May 29, 2024 Author Posted May 29, 2024 Thanks, chaps - sorted, at last. The culprits were the plugs. I'd pulled each one and tested to make sure that I was getting a spark, but clearly (as MM pointed out), it was sparking a lot less in the cylinder. Swapped to some NGK single-prongs and we were off to the races. As discussed elsewhere, the three-prong W7DTCs foul easily, but I'm in the habit of cleaning them after a break of any length. There was no sign of wear, but evidently they'd reached the end of their natural. Or, maybe there was another reason. Check out the text on the collar in the picture... 1
PaulAA Posted May 29, 2024 Author Posted May 29, 2024 Just to conclude this, could I ask for recommendations on the best manufacturer/source of regular analogue dizzy points?
JohnD Posted May 29, 2024 Posted May 29, 2024 By reputation, although I've never bought one (mine is electronic, with optical trigger) the Distributor Doctor. See : https://www.distributordoctor.com/distributor-points.html John 1
Nick Jones Posted May 30, 2024 Posted May 30, 2024 12 hours ago, PaulAA said: Thanks, chaps - sorted, at last. The culprits were the plugs. I'd pulled each one and tested to make sure that I was getting a spark, but clearly (as MM pointed out), it was sparking a lot less in the cylinder. Swapped to some NGK single-prongs and we were off to the races. As discussed elsewhere, the three-prong W7DTCs foul easily, but I'm in the habit of cleaning them after a break of any length. There was no sign of wear, but evidently they'd reached the end of their natural. Or, maybe there was another reason. Check out the text on the collar in the picture... Interesting…. I had wondered about what I call the “NGK effect” relating to the phenomenon where newish NGK plugs (or at least plugs appearing to be NGK) loose their ability to spark after being flooded/fuel wetted. I discounted this because Bosch….. certainly I’ve never had this problem with Bosch plugs. Not sure I’ve ever had Russian made ones though. The only Russian plugs I’m aware of having are those unusual “plasma” plugs. Glad you are sorted. Assume these are heat range 5 in NGK speak? That should also sort your previously mentioned fouling concerns.
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