A bit of a vote

[PaulAA]

Whilst waiting for The Post to deliver yet more duff Far Eastern knock-off stuff for the TR brake system from our usual sources, I came here for the view from the other side of the Channel.

Nothing about the chap in the suit forced to stand in the rain to deliver his... creative analysis of this Govt's achievements?

I see that 74 Tory MPs (so far) will not be standing in the election, suggesting that 272 of them are not keeping up with current affairs. The latest estimate from Statista is that current voting intentions would give Labour 48% of the vote.

I've put the popcorn on...

[JohnD]

Now, now!  No politicking or celebrating!  A sober and bipartisan discussion of the election prospects is needed, of Labour and the HisTories.

Martin Lewis on Today this morning speculated that Sunak has called the election now, because the Energy Cap has just been reduced, saving money for punters, when it will increase even more in the Autumn which was the alternative date.   There's bugger all else he can claim to have succeeded on.

John

[zetecspit]

Nothing to see so far.

I still have no idea what Keir&Co are proposing, nor indeed the little fella. 

The disruptors in this election will be Reform (I think that is the latest iteration of UKIP) and the Greens.

SNP are a disaster at present, no idea how well or badly they will do. But I get the feeling Labour will make significant gains.

But lets face it, none of the parties have a magic wand, nothing very much will change. It never does at the will of the party in charge, things are more driven by world economies. And the civil service who have VERY high inertia. 

[Steve 13-60]

As the saying goes...." If voting mattered, they'd ban it"

[Nick Jones]

5 hours ago, PaulAA said:

Nothing about the chap in the suit forced to stand in the rain to deliver his... creative analysis of this Govt's achievements?

To say that we are politically somewhat jaded, or even shell shocked by 14 years of astonishingly poor and destructive “government” is, I think an understatement.

While I can’t work up much enthusiasm for the principle opposition party, they do have the massive benefit of being NOT Tory. 

Locally it’s a no brainer as Labour couldn’t win here, but we were formerly Lib Dem (Paddy Ashdowns constituency). Been Tory for a while after a misjudgement by his successors, but the current incumbent is notably right wing and useless and we have a new Lib Dem hopeful who has been our local councillor for some years and is very hardworking and sensible. No idea why he wants to be an MP but I’m sure he’ll do his best for us.

To mangle an old saying, if the choice was between the current Tory waster (or any other Tory probably) and a donkey, I’d vote for the donkey.  Might not do much good but at least it wouldn’t be wilfully destructive!

[JohnD]

Yes, impressive a great deal of 'tactical' voting.  In even true Blue Wall constituencies, people who don't support the HisTories will vote for any candidate who looks capable of dislodging the incumbent, and even True-Blues will vote for anyone who isnt Labour, who will do the same.   (I wrote "do the sane"!)

John

[zetecspit]

46 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

To say that we are politically somewhat jaded, or even shell shocked by 14 years of astonishingly poor and destructive “government” is, I think an understatement.

Its been more than 14 years that we have had hopeless govts. The Blair years were a disaster, he scarpered and Gordon did his best (bless) but by then it was all falling apart as the massive amounts of money had been squandered. Not sure where, but it all got spent.

[Nick Jones]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/24/michael-gove-to-stand-down-at-general-election
 

This is pretty telling.

If even the slithy Gove is slithering away…..! 
 

I won’t miss him….

[Escadrille Ecosse]

13 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/24/michael-gove-to-stand-down-at-general-election
 

This is pretty telling.

If even the slithy Gove is slithering away…..! 
 

I won’t miss him….

The very definition of F*****d

[Nick Jones]

And another….

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/24/punishment-election-tories-voters-lies

[zetecspit]

I have just found a prdiction of seat numbers.

Worryingly Labour are currently likely to have a mahoosive majority. Which is never good for us the voters. 

I expect those numbers will change, with Labour still having a clear majority, but hopefully a strong opposition to keep them on their toes. After all, a govt is far more likely to be effective if they have others snapping at their heels. Something that hasn't happened in the UK for years. 

[Nick Jones]

10 hours ago, zetecspit said:

After all, a govt is far more likely to be effective if they have others snapping at their heels. Something that hasn't happened in the UK for years. 

Agree with the opposition sentiment. Labour have not been an effective opposition.

However, what will remain of the Tories will be a disorganised rabble for some years I suspect.  I also doubt that the LDs and Greens between them will get enough numbers to be effective. Such is the joy of FPTP. Though it may also serve to keep the lunatic fringe (new National Front) at bay…..

Telling that Little Nige prefers to keep out of it (his personal record at election time is dismal) and would rather cross the pond to support his orange chum…. Trough a little deeper and better stocked over there maybe.

[RogerH]

13 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/24/michael-gove-to-stand-down-at-general-election
 

This is pretty telling.

If even the slithy Gove is slithering away…..! 
 

I won’t miss him….

Isn't that a quote from a Lewis Caroll book

 

Roger

[PaulAA]

2 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Telling that Little Nige prefers to keep out of it (his personal record at election time is dismal) and would rather cross the pond to support his orange chum…. Trough a little deeper and better stocked over there maybe.

Money and better stakes at the Last Chance saloon. Let's face it, Americans are far more gullible, and ill-equipped to resist the barrage of his distortions and inventions. Why struggle on in a field where the truth has (finally) dawned on most of the electorate, when the opportunity for graft in fresh fields is far more lucrative?

[PaulAA]

7 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Isn't that a quote from a Lewis Caroll book

 

Roger

Dickens, I think - Uriah Gove

[RogerH]

I am not a dedicated politico but being an engineer I listen. Being and NDT engineer I can find fault.

Poor little Rishi - grand ideas but not very practical - sending TRouble makers off to the penal colonies as  in the 1780's

Floating hotels with built in Legionaries.   Could he not have taken them back to the French beaches  - bit like D-Day.

As for Captain Hindsight - his mouth is working b ut waffle comes out. All these wonderful ideas he speaks of regarding our floating visitors are unworkable.

Nothing he ha said gives me hope.

Ed Davey should keep to making safety lamps for as a politician he is a shadow. A shadow that spouts simpering words of no effect.

The Greens should be boiled slowly and severed Al Dente 

 

I think it will be the Raving Loony Party again this time.  I am mentally in tune with them.

 

Roger

[RogerH]

Found it - The Jabberwocky

 

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

      Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:

All mimsy were the borogoves,

      And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/42916/jabberwocky

 

and if he wasn't on drugs (before the Beatles) then I'm a Dutchman.

 

Roger

[mossmonaco]

"what will remain of the Tories will be a disorganised rabble" proof indeed that elections change nothing.

 

 

At times like this, under cover of terms such as 'Manifesto' 'Campaign Document' or 'Opinion Poll', Our Glorious Leaders often provide us with quantities of free toilet paper: pre-printed with shiny graphics, it gets delivered straight through the letterbox. If you examine this material you will see that it is generally recycled (read it and you will find it's covered in shit). Most of it includes a request for some of your valuable data. The parties love this because it provides them with confirmation-biased data that they can use to massage their inflated egos (and probrably sell to their henchmen in the manipulation secto)r. Such requests for your data are accompanied by a freepost address.

When you reply to a freepost address it costs you nothing but the freepost licence holder is charged second class postage + a fee for each item delivered.

The data that Our Glorious Leaders are after has a financial value to them. Should some deviant subversive type corrupt that data, say by filling in their questionaire with the help of dice from ebay and then return the form using freepost, not only would the value of the dataset be reduced but it would cost Our Glorious Leaders over a quid in postage. (This would be very wrong and A Bad Thing. Clearly it is a Patriotic Duty to fill in the data accurately and to take care to always reply. ( ebay item no 144409848919)).....depanding on the weight of what you send back to their freepost address. I'm sure that if such a devious subversive type were to include additional 'recycled shit' in the envelope the parties would be gratefull: one would think that after all the years Our Glorious Leaders have been giving us their special brand(s) of recycled shit their stocks must be running low. One way to help them out is to collect all your junk mail, put it all in a big envelope (or sack) and send the whole lot  back to the precious freepost address. Obviously the extra weight of the delivery will increace the freepost charge (that they have to pay), but just think, the manifestos are all the same, if you take one partys leaflet and swap the references between partyA and partyB you will be hard pressed to spot the difference so they can use a bit of tippex and save printing costs

If you realy want to contribute I see that local equestrian centres supply sacks that come pre-filled with the kind of valuable  data that any one of Our Glorious Leaders could benifit from being trully immersed in

 

Please note I'm not sure of the legality of sending biological refuse through the post and I certainly wouldnt advocate sending it to Conservative Party Freepost RSBB XRZT ZTXE 30 Millbank London SW1P 4 DP or  Labour Party. FREEPOST NEA 9769

[Nick Jones]

3 hours ago, RogerH said:

Isn't that a quote from a Lewis Caroll book

 

Roger

 

3 hours ago, RogerH said:

Found it - The Jabberwocky

 

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

      Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:

All mimsy were the borogoves,

      And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/42916/jabberwocky

 

and if he wasn't on drugs (before the Beatles) then I'm a Dutchman.

 

Roger

More of a mis-quote, but you got it 

Had to learn the bloody thing to recite in 3rd form English class….. Very sub-optimal for 13 yo me!

Drugs…. Or absinthe maybe.

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, mossmonaco said:

 

"what will remain of the Tories will be a disorganised rabble" proof indeed that elections change nothing.

 

Ok, ok, I mis-spoke. Should have said “even more of a disorganised rabble”

I don’t wish to believe that this election will change nothing.  My hope is that it will deepen the smoking crater that is the Tory party to the point that nothing can climb out for 10 years or more.

More positively, I hope it will change the trajectory of the country from what feels like ever increasing terminal decline to a flatter then more upward trajectory.

Was speaking with a neighbour a couple of evenings back. She and her 14 yo daughter were delivering letters for the LDs. Apparently daughter’s school had been treated to a visit from the incumbent MP whom was unwise enough to ask for questions. Daughter, who is a very sharp young lady, asked why the Tories had dismissed the EU offer of young person’s exchange scheme out of hand. She didn’t really get an answer, so next kid asked if they could have a proper answer. In the end he had had to admit he had no idea what they were even asking about. Sadly none of that lot old enough to vote yet….

[mossmonaco]

I dont WISH to believe that an election will change nothing. Like most people I WANT to believe that our political class are the brightest and best of us. That they have studied the issues and arrived at their proposed policies by considering evidence and not prejudice, reason not dogma. I WANT to believe that when our politicians appear on TV they will explain the reasons for their beliefs and conduct honest public debate rather than sticking to petty tribalistic points-scoreing. When is the last time that you heard of a case where two MP's from different parties publicly debated an issue and one of them changed the other ones mind withouut using threats and bribary. 

It's not that I want to believe that our political system is corrupt and bigoted, its that the truth is so bleeding obvious.

It seems highly likely that the current bunch-the ones who were so selfless, wise, and public spirited that they chose BJ and LT to lead the country will loose lots of seats and be replaced with a fresh bunch from the other party who will persue largely the same self-interested path. The greatest benifit will be that the new bunch will be inexperienced and thus less proficient at screwing us over- but they will soon pick up the necessary skills. Remember the wave of enthusiasm, hope, optimism that accompanied Blairs first government?. Remember how it turned to shit. The nauseous cycle just repeats each time the government changes and the reason we allow it to keep happening is because when we we realise how useless the incumbents are we desperately want to believe the new lot when they say that they will fix things. so we convince ourselves that a vote for a leadership that (deep down we know) will quickly turn to shit in exactly the same way the last lot did is A Good Thing. If no-one voted for them they wouldnt keep doing it to us

And I get on my knees and prey

we wont get fooled again.

meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

 

p.s.The fact that I am a grumpy old man who, shattered his left sholder on sunday, and is currently full of morphine may have a little bearing on my views, but not much.

 

 

[mossmonaco]

6 hours ago, RogerH said:

Found it - The Jabberwocky

 

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

      Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:

All mimsy were the borogoves,

      And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/42916/jabberwocky

 

and if he wasn't on drugs (before the Beatles) then I'm a Dutchman.

 

Roger

Goedendag, meneer!

interestingly, there is no evidence that he was on any halucigenics, He kept extreemely detailed diaries and the only drug mentioned there is the occasional glass of sherry, Whilst Laudnum would have been easily available, the evidence suggests that he was one of the few victorians who wasnt on it! He was certainly a strange man- a brilliant mathematician with what would certainly today be regarded as a disturbing fascination for the minds and bodyie of little girls. he wrote Jabberwocky long before the rest of TTLG and the imagery employed makes more sence when you know that the plot of TTLG is basically a solution to a chess problem and Jabberwocky is Beofulf, re-written as a short poem to illustrate how he thought childrens brains processed language - 100 years in advance of Chomsky who argued some of the same things, albeit in less readable ways.

I had a bit of a facination with him in my university days when the drugs were good

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, mossmonaco said:

The fact that I am a grumpy old man who, shattered his left shoulder on sunday, and is currently full of morphine may have a little bearing on my views, but not much.

Ouch! Commiserations!

If anything the morphine is probably mellowing you a little……

Wish you a speedy and complete recovery.

PS. I find your logic hard to argue with…. But….. unusually for me, was trying not to be a grumpy old man 

[mossmonaco]

thank you for the commiserations, unfortunately it does not look as if recovery will  be either speedy or complete. Over the years Ive tried to be good to the world, but just after I fell from the ladder and approaced the ground, it showed not the slightest inclination to move out of the way for me. I now have rather more than the average number of bones in my upper arm and shoulder. I had a few miles of cycling to get home from the scene which was less than comfortable.

For obvious reasons I blame the government, together with my idiot boss who failed to ensure safe working. I am self employed.

[mossmonaco]

8 hours ago, RogerH said:

 

The Greens should be boiled slowly and severed Al Dente 

 

 

Wasn't "Severed Al Dente" a famous mob informant?